Why is the Right so violent?

For discussion about modern politics, politicians, and political and social trends and policies

  1. ⏳⏳⏳

    ⏳⏳⏳ Fapstronaut

    I see that the televangelists didn't manage to persuade everybody that Donnie is a godly man if not a prophet. My respect for the religious has increased.
     
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  2. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    Definitely! Every word. Rapt. But, also with my critical conservative filter on, it sounds a lot different for my ears born and raised with rights in a free country than it is for the people not afforded such privilege.

    Hey, thanks for your conversation and time. Seriously, it's been engaging and illustrative. I'd never ask you to stop presenting your case. Characterize it as I may, that's what free speech is all about. Thanks for chiming in, bro.

    Tone is hard to capture online, but my mindset is definitely never condescending or ridiculing you. If I've resorted to cheapshot characterizations, then you got your return fire and we can pick back up a more civil discourse another time :)

    You're taking it a little different than intended. My point is that only citizens of America really understand this whole issue protecting of basic Bill of Rights freedoms. Citizens of other State entities criticizing us may do so, but are going to have to accept they have zero influence over changing something so basic as our right to freedom of religion. Historically speaking, thriving religions with differences have made this country what it is, have promoted immigration from many places where those faiths were not respected and often even persecuted. My point totally about outside interests can't really understand what civic duty and mindset in America, not about healthcare or anything else. Freedom of religion is a very particular and unique aspect of America.

    My point stands. All I care about is America, other countries are mostly Socialist and aren't a valid test of supply-side economics.

    An average is not a valid metric. Because the rich have centralized more wealth into higher percentages. However, what is a completely valid metric is standard of living in households, which overall is much improved in 200 years, since 100 years, and even since 25 years. You can look that up anywhere you like. How many people have opportunities for employment is another very valid metric.

    What metric do you base your comments on "real wages"? The thing is much of that is an invalid metric because of societal trends such as dual-income households. So, it's not comparing apples-to-apples over time.

    Percentage of home ownership is another invalid metric because individual interests are vastly different now; marriage age is older, number of children and when children are born is completely different. Yes, there are price pressures and housing availability issues, but those are nothing in historical comparison against 1930s, even the 1950s, and more recently, in the high lending interest rates of the 1970s.

    Picking the right metrics is vitally important.

    Yes, it is. Out of the Muslims, many seek world domination and have zero tolerance. Our freedom of religion in America was built on an ideal which encompasses how peaceful religions operate and promote human betterment. All religions are not equal and all are not validly given space to operate. There are lines. This isn't about what is true or not, this is about what can be abided in the social construct.

    Totally false. Silly idea. Reagan's average was just over 6%, not that that's his main selling point. It is not. Reduced taxation created many opportunities. Also, those unemployment rates as reported federally have a lot of statistical problems due to methodology changes over time. The worst offender there was Obama who began to completely cook the books. Trump's unemployment rates have improved greatly down to a claimed 4%, so along with wage improvements and overall market performance our economy and financial confidence is making real strides. The truly exciting part is business startups and innovation really skyrocketing.

    Ha. It's federal banking controls that create inflation. In short, stealing and printing of money by government and sanctioned organizations. To wit: it is Socialism that creates modern inflation. Also, inflation rates are totally in line with earnings and gdp - that's why I talk about standard of living, which is a much better standing metric.

    Cost of living was another area that Obama really screwed up in terms of massively polluting the methodology, essentially to create lies.

    What's good about our current time is that it's very meritocratic -- tolerated by American and unrespected elsewhere. When you have more education, when you work hard, you will make more money and enjoy more financial freedom. There is nothing wrong with that system. Some people don't mind having less earning power, a certain segment of society simply chooses not to engage in employment or running a small business or farm in same way. Liberals would like crazy things like a living wage which is a crazy policy with no respect of human nature that some people don't care what they earn. For those that do, they are able to work hard and do better.

    Also..... For those that are injured or incapacitated, they merely have to accept a lower standard of living. This is totally justifiable and morally acceptable. They will certainly live and live fairly well. Our nation isn't the place for egalitarian ideas about everyone automatically deserving the same luxuries in life.

    Our homeless people all have cell phones; it's not a realistic discussion to compare first world problems with ideas about a "living wage" in other countries. America has no need for that kind of Socialism.

    Ditto on almost every facet of that, bro. Didn't vote for him, still don't approve of his character (how could one?), but nearly completely approve of his policy decisions thus far.

    For me, being okay with Trump now has a lot to do with him just getting things done like not leaving federal bench seats opened and not only talking about trade issues with China but also actually taking action. It's not even each specific instance was so good, but he's not there to just sit on his hands on autopilot. I respect his work ethic and also the basic mindset he has when he makes decisions. Do I like the tweets? No, it's too often silly bordering on crazy. Actions, though, speak much louder than words for me. Which is why I was very afraid of what would happen if Hillary was elected. Not so afraid that I would vote for Trump, but I'm very glad it turned out this way.

    Yeah. I know what you mean here. I wouldn't go back and vote for Trump in 2016 because there was just no way to know it would work out. But, as of now, I feel a lot better about a Trump vote. Can't commit 100% until the polls happen, but that's my thoughts as of today.
     
  3. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    What do the polls have to do with anything? Excuse my ignorance but the polls showed a 99% chance of crooked hillary winning.
     
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  4. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    #1 to respond to what you thought I meant...

    Hillary "did" win in the popular vote, so the predictive survey results weren't all that wrong. Have you heard Ben Shapiro's analysis on that? It was utterly excellent. The thing is, those surveys in advance of the election weren't really structured correctly - bad methodology. As you of course know, our Constitution didn't create a presidential election by democracy, but the electoral college from States. In retrospect, we see that Wisconsin/etc helped really seal the deal. As for the over-reliance on surveys and using questionable structures and incorrect declarations of error margin, the media doesn't care to tell us real news, they want to add their fake tilt. As you also know :) It just didn't work this time. Enough red states got together and we're Making America Great Again! haha

    #2 that's not what I meant at all.

    What I meant was until I go into the polls -- the voting booth (definition of poll) :)

    And, all I meant was we don't even know yet if another Republican may stand up and run against Trump. Unlikely, but quite possible. Also, we don't know who else will be on the ballot. I'm nothing at all like a party-line voter, so I decide when it's the actual time to vote. I've even voted locally for Democrats - only because the only other realistic options (without write-in) were Green Peace or whatever else worse. More often, it's a Libertarian candidate or something Independent.

    Hey, would anyone here vote for a Perot candidate today? I might. So, if a third party Libertarian-styled candidate arose, it's possible I would vote for that person over Trump. But, I've been very happy with Trump overall as compared to expectations.
     
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  5. Get_It

    Get_It Fapstronaut

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    I'm voting Trump in 2020 simply because it will make his haters seethe.
     
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  6. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Don't forget about those two guys in MAGA hats who beat up that French actor, Juicy Smooyay.
     
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  7. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    The white Nigerian brothers?
     
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  8. Get_It

    Get_It Fapstronaut

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    When the country is so great you have to hire two nigerians to commit a hate crime.
     
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  9. Ajikan

    Ajikan Fapstronaut

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    Hate crimes have gone up with Trump's presidency. Facts>Feelings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     

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  10. Get_It

    Get_It Fapstronaut

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    Bugmen created fake stats because they're butthurt over Trump. *Yawning forever.
     
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  11. Evig Faith

    Evig Faith Fapstronaut

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    This is only half-true. Reported and credible hate crime incidents rose, but Overall hate crime actually dropped since 2015. The increase in reported hate crimes was offset by a 40%+ decrease in unreported hate crimes. This is overall a great sign; people are more comfortable to come out against wrongs committed to them than they were in the past.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hcs1317pp.pdf

    Also, while I’m not in disagreement with the results, stating that “Counties that voted for President Trump by the widest margins in the presidential election experienced the largest increases in reported hate crimes” is a terrible conclusion for “Trump = Hate”, considering that Trump counties tend to be rural, and an extra hate crime anomaly would impact the percentage increase of hate crimes dramatically compared to a city/county of 250,000+. Those counties tended to be Democratic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  12. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    Measured by what? The whole idea of a hate crime is utterly ridiculous and subjective. We don't need so-called hate or evil to ascribe levels of criminality or damage. The concept of hate crimes is totally silly and worthless in terms of ameliorating and also remedying societal issues. Stop crime. The word 'hate' has become so overused as to lose all confidence in meaning and severity. Like the Nazi and love terms, too.

    A crime is a crime. Has crime gone up during Trump? Even if so..... you then want to blame Trump? How could someone think the President has much of any impact on crime?
     
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  13. Get_It

    Get_It Fapstronaut

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    The blaming of Trump is just another way for haters to pout like the crybabies they are. See Robert Orourke and any douchebag journalist from CNN.
     
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  14. ⏳⏳⏳

    ⏳⏳⏳ Fapstronaut

    @vxlccm since you've been very nice I think you're not misunderstanding me on purpose and I'll try to explain myself better once again. It seems to me you approach everything with a closed mind - you've already decided that the US conservative view is correct on everything and you dodge and hide from all facts that could destroy that view. I did not say that freedom of religion should be abolished, quite the opposite - I said Trump is trampling (or trumpling?) on it.

    This:
    is a direct violation of freedom of religion which says precisely that all religions are equal. Preventing, say, a Hindu from conducting his religious ceremony just because you think your religion is better is an act of oppression.

    Your suggestion that Americans are somehow uniquely equipped to understand the importance of religious liberty is a bit ridiculous if I may say so. First of all (most) Americans are really Europeans - look at your family tree if you're from the US and you'll see max. 400 years on the American continent and 1000+ previous years in Europe. Those thousand years were formative in your morality and attitude - that's why you're much more similar not just physically but mentally to a Dane than to a Korean for example.

    And those were formative years partly because your ancestors got to witness the atrocities committed out of religious intolerance. Unlike in the Muslim world, Christendom before the 16th century was dominated by Catholic institutions which didn't allow difference in faith. It's this very European experience we have that lead to realization that freedom of religion is super important.

    Your comment on Islam is just wrong. I hope you will seek out and talk to Muslim people to understand that your judgment was unfair.

    If anything, wealth and income inequality skews the average upwards, therefore painting a prettier picture... but that makes my point stronger, not weaker! So thanks for the ammunition :)
    Real wage is when you account for inflation.

    Well, standard of living is measured by something called median household income ... which is what I was talking about. What are you talking about?

    The system is definitely not meritocratic. The idea that the market is a fair wealth allocation mechanism is pure fantasy. Pornstars, defense lawyers of gangsters, liquor and cigarette companies and all kinds of snake-oil salesmen are rich while construction workers, farmers and nurses often struggle to pay the rent. And that's despite the fact the former harm our societies while the latter are essential.

    Really? A person having to decide between saving his life and throwing his family into poverty is in your mind moral? I cannot agree with this, I find it appalling. One thing would be if the prices were fair but they're not. They're inflated by a greedy cartel which your government protects.

    This is what annoys me about Americans. "'Merica's the best, yeehaw!", despite the fact than in some things - in many things - you suck. Others have no problem admitting that about themselves but you're all blinded by this relentless national pride. I'm sorry man but Manhattan is not the center of the galaxy. Get off that high horse, for your own good.

    I stand behind my comment on unemployment. In 1982 in the US the unemployment rate was ~10%, just like in 2010.
     
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  15. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    We diverge, then, at all religions are not equal. Freedom of religion protects religion within certain bounds. Once the State is instituted, the State defines those bounds. Taking things another way is to allow things like subjective morality or religious tyranny, in effect, because the rules aren't fixed in clarity of delineated rights and consequences.

    Given this, I'll leave the other economics debate for a re-education 101 for others to address. It's simply not factual to assume positions counter to all given evidence in the world economies. America did not become the wealthiest nation, with the wealthiest middle class and most privileged poorer classes by any other system. It is literally obvious that the American way is the best way. Could it evolve and improve? Maybe. Can it do that by reverting to over-regulation of business practices -- extremely unlikely as that balance has never been found in all other Socialism attempts and eventually the intellectual and productive outliers flee and come to a freer place such as America.

    I do understand a lot, actually, about how others overseas see America and how little they appreciate about our intentional contributions in the world. Part of that is myopic millennials and part of it is intentional distaste an nonallowance for our different viewpoints.

    We, invoking the culmination of our Constitutional ideals, do have a better system of government. There is evidence for this as compared to all previous known societies. Our culture is melded and malleable and not enforced. It operates under a prescribed set of freedoms and also founded upon Judaeo-Christian values. It could have been founded on other peaceful values such as the Hindi, but it wasn't. Our problem with a limit to certain religious ideas is not that it's a different religion, but that all religions are not equal.

    If all beliefs were equal, why is so much of the liberal and socialist world so against "hate speech", something I think is impossibly hard to define. America is a different place with different ideals. We used to have a more pure right of free speech that has now been corrupted.
     
  16. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    The first question is the first thing that is embarassing: God already did the finished work of redemption, so instead of "asking for forgiveness", you ought to TRUST God's forgiveness, asking for it would be like an insult almost, since it's the free gift of God. Now Trump's lack of emphasis on God in his answers indeed shows he might be carnal or even lost. As a POTUS, you can not help but being in touch with the world and its gloomy situation I guess. Christians are born again so they all trip in the world here and there in their old man as they grow in their new creature, but they always hate sin and never enjoy grieving the Holy Spirit inside of them.
     
  17. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    I think the Left are the most violent. But I see past that left-right paradigm.
     
  18. ⏳⏳⏳

    ⏳⏳⏳ Fapstronaut

    @vxlccm your claims are factually incorrect, especially the last one - the American lower classes are in the worst position out of the developed world. But screw the details, my main goal is to make you stop worshiping the country you happened to be born in and you didn't start doing that as a result of a rational thought so using rational arguments is bound to fail in waking you up.

    Instead I'll shine some light on how did your country end up in the position of privilege it occupies now.

    USA is the spoiled child of countries. It spent over 200 years safely tucked behind two big oceans suckling on the breast milk containing all three economic factors required for growth:
    LAND unwillingly provided by the native population,
    LABOR unwillingly provided by African slaves and voluntarily extracted from millions of immigrants who got sold on the American dream and ended up in abject poverty instead,
    CAPITAL flowing across the pond from the Europeans who previously stole it from all across the world via colonialism.
    ^(that's the 101 economics you were asking for)

    Another huge gift for the usa were the World Wars. Unlike the rest of the world, they didn't face widespread destruction of infrastructure and population decimation.

    On the contrary, the elite fled the war to North America. Swaths of the most legendary scientists and engineers like Fermi, Einstein, Neumann and von Braun moved to the US to escape Mussolini and Hitler or were later kidnapped during Operation Paperclip. Those people generated inventions and discoveries which fueled technological progress in the States and propelled their universities to the top.

    So here it is my friend. You owe your wealth to geography and accidents of history. I urge you to drop the nationalist fervor and subject your views to objective reality.

    I will speak no more of this topic or anything connected. It's not why I joined the site. Also I think I've already said all there is to say.
     
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  19. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    given by God:
    LAND
    RESOURCES - gold, trees, sunlight, crops​

    volunteered en mass:
    LABOR - the slave argument is hollow, and was also adequately and completely settled by history: it was wrong and disgusting, and our whole country has benefited supremely from having every proper freedom now available to all humans.​

    To say this nation was built on European capital is imperialist garbage. All meddling from monarchs ever bought any satellite territory is angst and a siphon. We built ourselves by hard work. The lazy Greek state and German haters attest to this general form. It is self-reliance work and not social crutches that creates wealth from opportunity. Our government stayed largely out of the way compared to other privileged social hierarchies and presumed nobilities and fiefdoms - and that LACK of intervention is the reason for the most historical advancements ever to be demonstrated on earth. Unprecedented technology. Unparalleled good will. The only econ you don't understand is the whole concept of the entrepreneurial spirit and the advancement of risk by hope of reward.

    Immigrants succeed here. There is no lie or false dream. People the world over struggle greatly to escape lesser opportunity and be free with greater opportunity here. Any other idea is foolish and false.

    All I hear is envy and attempts to plant doubt. Evidence is a far better judge and all other evidences from elsewhere measured against clearly contrast the much greater failures and far lesser accomplishments of other societies and philosophies. Understand that this is no accident, but by divine aid.

    God's USA saved the world from destruction by tyranny several times over, and in nearly every continent by direct intervention. Those still under tyranny don't have to be and the march of freedom is not over.
     

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