Why live if God doesn't exist?

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    Yes but you apply it based on your worldview. As does everyone else, none of it is uniform.
     
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  2. brokenmillennial

    brokenmillennial Fapstronaut

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    I actually don't think rationality and morality are the same thing. I think a person is fully capable of being both rational and immoral. Of course, there's disagreement on what is and isn't moral.
     
  3. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    As I said, common sense can vary through different populations.

    I correlate common sense with good sense and thinking rationally. If a population's common sense is to steal when needed as in @SickSicko's society is, then well, to me it's a fucked up society, to them it's not, owell, I keep living my life.
     
  4. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    So you've changed your view on common sense since our last discussion?

    Because I remember you being very adamant that it was uniform. I mean it really doesn't matter anymore anways.
     
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  5. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    Well, to me there's only one valid common sense but I'm aware common sense can vary though different populations because the word common sense purely means a sense that is common within a group of people or in a bigger scale a gender or the entire humanity.

    In my views, common sense correlates with good sense and rationality and it should be uniform to everyone.
     
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  6. Billybrasco

    Billybrasco Fapstronaut

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    So many "tough" people who poo poo

    then isn't it fair to say it can't really be called common?
     
  7. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    But how can the person be rational if he/she's immoral? He/she needs to not be immoral in the first place, because immorality is irrationality.
     
  8. You're misjudging me. The entirety of my views on a complex subject can't be summed up in a few short sentences.
    What's worse is that you don't even have the decency to ask or engage me.

    Obviously most people have a "will" to live. I've more or less alluded to this will in other posts I've made. You don't need to believe in God to have a will to live. You don't need to be moral to have a will to live.

    But the post wasn't discussing will, but justification. Why.
    If God doesn't exist... why is it such a bad idea to kill myself and my family to reduce CO2 emissions and preserve earthly resources.
    Why shouldn't a woman just kill herself instead of wasting my tax dollars on an abortion procedure? (I'm Canadian).

    In the current world we live in, using godless, secular reasoning, I can come up with more arguments as to why human lives should be snuffed out than preserved.

    The truth is, nobody cares about your happy moments and ambitions but you and maybe a few close people around you.
    But those things are good.
    Life is good.
    Life is a genuinely good thing to experience.
    But life can also be shit. And the laws of the universe are cruel.
    "Enjoying life" isn't a indicative of it's worth, because what you enjoy probably comes at someone else's expenses in a system that exploits the disenfranchised for the gain of few. And if enjoying life is a measurement (or justification) of it's worth, why do you get to enjoy it at another person's expense? Do you think you're better than other people?

    This is why I agree with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and I think all life is intrisically valuable, no matter the "cost."

    By human standard there is always a way to try and prove that the value of a life— a soul— can be measured. All that does is create even more problems.
    Instead of trying to measure the worth of a human life. Just try and live it righteously.
     
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  9. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    Well, it's called common because it's common within a certain group.
     
  10. Billybrasco

    Billybrasco Fapstronaut

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    Is it? Hitler and friends wanted to euthanize crippled people and breed the next "superman". According to the theory of evolution, a very rational perspective, this makes perfect sense.
     
  11. Billybrasco

    Billybrasco Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. You said it better than I could. And as I stated I've never been very religious but I enjoy these conversations and I'm opening to listening to the other side.

    I find it curious that some people can't see there's no objective justification for life if they don't accept a higher power. But this is also rather scary because when things are so arbitrary then people just make things up as they go along. That has been happening exponentially as of late- and it's been happening with people in powerful positions who are dictating how we should live on their own personal whims.
     
  12. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    Lol wat? Heck no, it doesn't make any sense.
     
  13. brokenmillennial

    brokenmillennial Fapstronaut

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    I guess what I'm saying is I believe that a person can be firmly grounded in reality, use facts to make decisions, but also choose to do something that can bring harm to others. Some would call this "evil." I too believe that evil exists but I don't believe it has paranormal origins. I believe evil is when someone is fully aware that their actions will bring harm to someone and yet they do it anyway.
     
  14. Billybrasco

    Billybrasco Fapstronaut

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    So evolution makes no sense?
     
  15. brokenmillennial

    brokenmillennial Fapstronaut

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    I actually agree with what you're saying here. In a sense this is rational, but it is also evil. A good example of something that logically makes sense but is deeply immoral.
     
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  16. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    What I mean is that that an immoral person is able to do 2+2=4 but he/she's never going to be fully rational and that's what I mean with he/she is not rational.
     
  17. brokenmillennial

    brokenmillennial Fapstronaut

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    So you're saying that evil is not rational? I'm not sure if evil is rational or irrational. I truly believe that rationality and morality are two separate things. You seem to believe that they are linked together and I simply have to disagree with that.
     
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  18. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    Crippled people are people, you can not just euthanize them like they are object, that ain't rational. Hitler was extremely evil, he didn't have any piece of rationality in him.

    Evolution is a rational concept but evolution as in the biological process rather than rational is survival of the fittest. As I said, it's also rational in part but it's more about surviving and sometimes rationality doesn't apply in surviving.
     
  19. Billybrasco

    Billybrasco Fapstronaut

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    Well it sounds to me like you're confusing things like kindness, empathy and compassion with "rational" because I don't follow how you can say anything you just said. It makes no logical sense.

    If it's "survival of the fittest" then it would follow that the unfit should not survive. Simple, rational.

    "Evil" is irrelevant in a purely rational context.
     
  20. HelperX

    HelperX Fapstronaut

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    Evil is certainly irrational. Don't ever try to rationalize evil, if you do, it only mean one thing: you are becoming insane and that's what all evil people are.

    The reason why I say immoral people are irrational is simple. If immoral people are rational, why are they immoral in the first place, they can activate their rational side and realise the bad things that they do are wrong. Simple as that.
     

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