Why would God create some people foreknowing that they would hate their existence?

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  1. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Why would God create some humans foreknowing that they would hate their existence and in some cases commit suicide because of hating themselves and their existence? I don't understand why that would happen. Why create people whom you know would hate existing and be ungrateful for their existence? Does God like seeing people suffer?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  2. IFoundTheLight

    IFoundTheLight New Fapstronaut

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    Maybe because he does not exist ever thought of that???
     
  3. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    This is not a thread about God's existence or non existence. God at least IMO probably/most likely exists... getting back on topic, this question presupposes that God exists, so if you don't like that then don't respond, I'm not trying to be rude but if you don't like that, don't respond.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  4. IFoundTheLight

    IFoundTheLight New Fapstronaut

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    Presupposing something as intellectually void as the existence of God has no purpose. One would not pretend for a second that the tooth fairy is, in fact, real in order to have a philosophical conversation of any real meaning. That is why your question can not be taken seriously and must be refuted to amend individuals with such ludicrous ideological notions.
     
  5. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    You don't know that God doesn't exist. Can't we just pretend that God exists? We can have a meaningful discussion even if we just pretended that God exists. And actually the existence of God isn't a ludicrous proposition at all, it's the actually the most reasonable proposition.
     
  6. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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  7. Three possible answers:

    1. We are God experiment and he's still watching us see what we will do.

    2. We are God failed experiment and he/she can't be bothered to shut down the experiment.

    3. The devil exists and he causing people to suffer.

    4. God isn't powerful and can't do everything he/she wants.

    Now if point 3 is correct then the question is why create the devil in the first place? But maybe God didn't create, maybe Satan created the devil.
     
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  8. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    But aren't they the same person?
     
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  9. Jason_Tesla_19

    Jason_Tesla_19 Fapstronaut

    Assuming we're talking about the Judeo-Christian God: Why would God create humanity if he knew he was just going to send most to hell anyway? The Flood was basically an admission in the first place that he fucked up! The Bible even claims that God created evil: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 Not some great moral example, if you ask me!

    Assuming we're talking about some generic creator deity, that's just bringing up the whole philosophical problem or evil, and various theodicities/justifications, such as "soul development" or other "necessary evil" (why can't a god simply create a soul good and perfect in the first place?!).

    This world being so fucked up is evidence of this just being some random chance mechanical universe, not a benign creation. That's easier for me to accept than the idea of a malevolent creator. I just can't accept that some "omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent" deity needed "necessary evil". That means that the deity has restrictions and limitation that it can't or won't overcome.

    Now a saying I like that's attributed to Epicurus, but the origin is disputed:
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
     
  10. retard

    retard Fapstronaut

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    Look, Satan wanted to be greater than God. God is so kind that he doesn't force anyone, even Satan, to obey him. Therefore, it was Satan who chose to leave paradise in the first place. Why is the world so messed up? Adam and Eve chose to mess it up. God doesn't force us to obey him, but we have the choice. All the evil in this world is due to people's choices. We have been placed in a messed up environment, but we don't have to be the slave of the devil. We can choose to follow God as well. Then we will be a vessel of Grace and by allowing God to shine through us, we will be improving other people's lives. This is what we should do, and what we are created to do.
     
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  11. retard

    retard Fapstronaut

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    Look, Satan wanted to be greater than God. God is so kind that he doesn't force anyone, even Satan, to obey him. Therefore, it was Satan who chose to leave paradise in the first place. Why is the world so messed up? Adam and Eve chose to mess it up. God doesn't force us to obey him, but we have the choice. All the evil in this world is due to people's choices. We have been placed in a messed up environment, but we don't have to be the slave of the devil. We can choose to follow God as well. Then we will be a vessel of Grace and by allowing God to shine through us, we will be improving other people's lives. This is what we should do, and what we are created to do.
     
  12. Jason_Tesla_19

    Jason_Tesla_19 Fapstronaut

    Why would God create Satan in the first place if he knew he was going to cause so many problems? Why didn't God give Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil in the first place - did they actually know that disobeying God was wrong? Serious question!
     
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  13. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I actually wondered the same thing. Wasn't the use of a global Flood to wipe most of humanity off the earth kinda admitting that God messed up and that He needed to start over? But then again if I was a Christian, I'd say that it was humans who messed up and that God was delivering justice to humanity but still though, it seems that He did that to start over which implies that by making humans, He made a mistake.
    If I were to think like a Christian, I would probably respond and say when God says He created evil, He just meant that He created the person Lucifer who was good in the beginning but eventually became evil of his own accord and so God actually isn't responsible for evil.
    Wow! That's the same question I've asked myself recently: If God is all-powerful then why does He need to use to evil to bring about a greater good? If He needs to use evil to accomplish His purpose then He's not all-powerful, and if He's powerful enough not to need to use evil to accomplish His purpose but wants to use to evil to accomplish His purpose/bring about a greater good when He doesn't need to, then how can He be called all-loving or all-good?
    All the suffering in this world makes me wonder the same thing. And on the point about needing evil for soul/character development, that argument is flawed since literally millions of young people have died through abortions, miscarriages and even natural deaths as infants without ever getting the chance to grow, learn and develop their own character and sometimes suffering is so great that it literally kills people before they can learn anything eg. the starving people of Africa. So there really isn't much soul/character development going on as far as I can see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
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  14. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    That still doesn't answer the question. Why create people who you foreknew would absolutely hate existing? Does God like seeing people suffer?
     
  15. This is just my take

    God created an imperfect world.
    Not solely for us, but we are part of the reason.

    What does that mean for us personally? It means that certain individuals could understand the beauty of existence.

    If he created a perfect world with perfect humans, we would all be robots with a lack of understanding.

    God does not feel pain or suffering, he has no attachment.

    God did not create a fairy tale universe. The very concepts of good and evil are all direct creations of God.

    These are all things that exist in God’s universe.

    Why? Is a question with no answer

    It just is.

    Is it fair? No Is it cruel? Yes
    Is it a million and one other things good and bad? Yes

    Isn’t that the whole basis of life?

    If God didn’t create it then why are people not asking/answering the question, why is it possible for x, y, and z bad things to exist?


    God created an infinite reality with infinite possibles some of which people have control over, some not.


    We are not rulers of this universe therefore we cannot decide certain things to exist or happen. Neither can we understand why they are to
    be that way.

    This is true whether God is real or not.

    If we knew why then why would we have to ask?

    I think humans need to start to realize that we cannot understand everything about this universe. We are incapsulated in it trying to use our tiny brain to answer the biggest questions about reality.
    We can come up with the question but don’t have the proper tools or knowledge to answer it. I just don’t think we have the mental capacity.

    Yes the brain is powerful but I think we overestimate it.

    The machine we are using to try to unravel this infinite universe is tied into and confined to it. It is like a grain of sand in the ocean.
    Do you guys really think that is a possible task?
    Some will say yes lol. I’m waiting for the day to come


    Just imagine we are in a simulation. How could we understand how the simulation was created and who the creator is if we are literally inside it? It’s like trying to see through walls
    The creator in front of his mega computer would just be laughing his ass off watching us trying to figure it out. Then drop in little hints just to fuck with us.
    In that instance
    the reality of the situation would be that we can never be outside of the simulation and escape because we are just a mere creation. We would never be able to understand the full spectrum of what we are. We could never be the creator or understand the creator. We are not apart of his realm.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
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  16. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    If God created all the evil in this world then He's not good and not worthy of any worship. Why does your God like people having limited understanding? Is He insecure about having His creation as intelligent as Him? Does He like having dumb creatures around just so that He can look smart?
     
  17. Yes if that is your outlook on him. The truth of the matter is you cannot accurately label or judge God. Like I said God has no attachment or ego.
    He doesn’t think he is “better than him” or “more superior to her”. Nor does he do certain things to make himself feel “better about himself”
    If he was then that is a very humanesque idea of God.

    It’s still technically possible, but I just don’t see the creator of the universe limiting his own self to that capacity. I don’t even think it’s logically possible at that point.

    Also I edited my post so you might want to read the rest just to get a full grasp of what I was trying to convey
     
  18. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    Once upon a time, a long time ago. . . There lived a boy. The boy was happy and full of life.

    But his life was very miserable . He was forced to live inside a room with one window where he could only see the world outside but never go outside. The room was a room big, with a television big and brightly coloured walls. There was only ONE door.

    The boy would walk to the door and turn the handle and PUSH. . . But sadly the door wouldn't open.

    He was TRAPPED. The boy would bang at the door and push with all his strength, but nothing would happen.

    A man would come by every day and post food through the letterbox so that the boy was always fed. This man called himself 'God.'

    God was very kind He would always ensure the boy was taken care, inside his room.

    Everyday the boy would watch the people on the outside through his window, watching them in envy. They were happy, in love and full of joy.
    Everyday he would cry as he watched these people, he would run to the door and bang on it, turn the handle and push with all his might. It was such a terrible situation. It really was.

    One day, the man, who called himself 'God' took pity on the boy. He said, 'Knock on the door and the door will be opened.'

    So the boy knocked on the door and still . . . Nothing. Nobody came.

    It was a trick!

    For many years this continued, until one day after trying hard, instead of turning the handle and PUSHing the door to open. . . he decided to turn the handle and PULL the door.

    The door OPENED from the inside. It had always been open. He was free.

    ^^The End.
     
  19. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    How does this relate to the question?
     
  20. Killa question! Why create Satan if he knew what he would do but maybe he didn't. Maybe Satan created himself. Maybe God isn't God and we just called him God.

    Maybe he is maybe he isn't.
     

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