Why you should eat healthy when you are young

Discussion in 'Nutrition and Supplements' started by Deleted Account, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. I have heard from so many people that you can eat what you want when you are young and that it will not effect you, people say to me a lot why are you eating so healthy you are young and can get away with eating junk food. This is false thinking that way to many people believe, what you do when you are young lays the foundation for when you are older, if you could get away with anything when young than you would not have kids with diabetes, or teens with heart attacks. Do you know why people become old and decrepit?, its because they did not eat healthy and they did not exercise, they did not set a strong foundation in their youth and they payed for it in old age.
     
    Little Prince, Zephon and YYY like this.
  2. Eating sh!t just because you can get away with it doesn't change the fact that it is sh!t and is only going to harm you (sooner or later).
     
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  3. Zephon

    Zephon Fapstronaut

    Very true! I've started eating healthy this year in combination with my workout and gym. It helps you not only growing muscles and getting better performance but also you can reduce the probability of getting cancer. Your intestine/gut provide your body with that, what you consume. If you eat bad and don't change it, the intestine will go on knees one day or won't work like usually.
    But a big problem is you cannot eat 100 % healthy because even fruits, vegetables, meat etc. are not healthy if they were produced in combination with genetic engineering in factories or produced by companies with industrial livestock farming. To eat 100 % healthy can be an expensive adventure, if you want to take it damned seriously. And the genetic produced food are cheaper than true vegetables, fruits, breads, meat etc. made 100 % naturally.
     
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  4. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Add to that all the desinformation out there about grains, fruits and vegetables too. We do all assume they are healthy foods because that's what doctors, the media, your parents, friends and family-members have told for decades. There has been literally no one talking about all the sugars and various anti-nutrients that are present in fruits, grains and vegetables.
    The few vitamins that can be absorbed from these are also destroyed by the anti-nutrients so there are actually few benefits eating fruits and vegetables, unless they are consumed in very moderate amounts and only after properly cooking/preparing them.
    I have started to feel much better myself after I removed (or dramatically limited) the most lectin- and oxalate rich foods I previously ate. Especially beans, legumes, lentils, leafy-greens, peanuts and cashews.
     
  5. What anti nutrients?, its ridiculous to say those things are not healthy, i have never felt better then when i was eating super healthy with lots of vegetables and fruits, and if we look at people all throughout time the healthiest most long lived ones were civilizations that ate fish and fruits and vegetables like Japan for example.
     
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  6. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Anti-nutrients = compounds that interfere with the absorption of nutrients. Have you ever heard about lectins, goitrogens, phytates, isoflavones, tannins, and oxalates for example? There are plenty of them in most plant-foods.
    Those are the compounds and proteins that plants have as a part of their defense-mechanism since they don't want to be eaten, defend themselves and spread their seeds/genes (just like animals).
    Consider the fact that most of the fruits and vegetables you see today are man-made (they would never grow in the wild) and haven't been a part of most humans' diets for that long.

    I bet that most people worldwide have been eating more of the nutrient-dense animal-products if available and the vegetables they do eat have been properly cooked/prepared in order to remove the anti-nutrients. Why do you think the Italians (for example) have been removing the seeds and peels from tomatoes over the past few hundred years?

    I got shooting pains in my connective tissues (primarily achilles' tendons) as I was eating a lot of kale and spinach and as soon as I removed those from my diet, the issue disappeared. Then, I removed coffee as well and my otherwise so irritable bowels were not so irritated any more.
     
  7. AlphaWolf1408

    AlphaWolf1408 Fapstronaut

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    Eating healthy through life is a must. I have had jealous people tell me that I should "live" a little and eat junk while still young. Then, when I am old and decrepit, I can "watch" what I eat.

    Yet, I'm the one that looks 20 while I am 32 years old and still sport a sixpack :)
     
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  8. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    This is ridiculous. Basically all Blue Zones (The zones on earth with the longest lived people) eat a high amount of legumes. Legumes should be part of any healthy diet. While oxalates are toxic and bind to other nutrients, they are destroyed for the most part by cooking. If you would eat legumes raw you would definitely get health issues. But again, that's why we cook them. All the foods you just listed are totally safe and fine.

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/70/3/439s/4714906
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nplants2016112
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0963996910003510
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...ietary-fibre/9E5AD9820206AC94AF332BC8BCA5121F
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01088314
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf048128d
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0889157505000682

    The vast majority of nutritional research considers legumes as health foods. Please don't fall for the Keto/Carnivore trap.
     
  9. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Legumes are also full of lectins that poke small holes in your intestines, causing inflammation and leaky gut. Proper cooking will remove most of it but not all of it, hence they should be eaten in moderation. More doesn't equal better or healthier when it comes to vegetables. After all, they are man-made and not so natural as they have only been part of human diets for a few thousand years.
    That is only a tiny fraction of the time homo sapiens sapiens have been wandering around on Earth.

    A few facts about the blue-zones that isn't mentioned outside their consumption of vegetables is:
    -That people in them also eat substantial amounts of fat from animal products, eat smaller portions, are physically active, have a good social life/community, use high-quality commodities in their cooking (free from pesticides and chemicals) and fast regularly. Just attributing their longevity to vegetable-consumption isn't sufficient, you got to look at the other lifestyle factors too.

    -How is carnivore/keto a trap?
    If the diet has improved my skin, given me more energy, wiped out all of my previous inflammation issues, improved my bowels (and stools), shredded the excess body fat and improved my cognitive functions, how could it possible be bad or a trap?
    The thing is that the more you eat of the nutrient-scarce foods (i.e. vegetables) that will deprive you of nutrients, the less room will you have for the more nutrient-dense foods that actually nourish you (such as high quality meat, fish, and eggs). Vegetables should be eaten in moderation and never unless properly cooked.

    I would say: Be aware of the vegetable/grain trap. Grains in themselves are even worse than vegetables from a nutrition point of view and are heavily promoted by giant corporations/grain producers since the profit margin on cheap grains is much higher than that from animal products.
     
  10. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    Everything we eat today is man made unless you go out in a forest and eat the plants there. All animals and plants you can buy in the supermarket do not exist in nature. 12.000 years is plenty of time to adapt. Evolution can happen quite quickly if needed. The fact that we have way more amylase in our saliva than apes proves that humans have already adapted to high starch foods. Could you please link me some scientific data showing that lectins damage the gut?

    All Blue Zones are literally plant based eaters. Yes they eat animals fats too, but they are only a small part of their diet. The other lifestyle factors play an important role of course, but their great health outcomes can be partly attributed to their consumption of high amounts of unrefined plant foods.

    Because the Carnivore/Keto diet has no scientific data backing it up. All everyone ever hears about it is anecdotal.

    These diets are bad because they cut out good foods (fruits, vegetables, legumes....) and increase the amount of unhealthy foods (high saturated, high trans fat animal foods). No credible nutritionist would ever recommend these diets for obvious reasons. There are no studies showing that keto/carnivore dieters have any good long term health outcomes. From the data we can gather, they are at an increased risk of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease as well as some forms of cancer.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/6604331
    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/circulationaha.108.808493
    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/JAHA.119.012865
    https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/6/6/712/4555152
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11883-019-0779-5
    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/133/11/3898S/4818040
    https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/36/3/600/652363
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1011256201044

    Why people feel better on these diets can be explained pretty easily. Ketosis causes people to eat less due to decreased appetite caused by ketones. This leads people to fast which helps with various ailments and improves certain bodily functions. But that doesn't make the food one eats healthy. Going from SAD to Keto is of course an improvement, but that doesn't make the diet healthy. You can probably make a ketogenic diet healthy by focusing on plant fats rather than animal fats, but that is pretty difficult.

    Vegetables are nutrient scarce? Every nutritionist will laugh at you for this statement. Have you ever heard of anti oxidants and secondary plant compounds? There are plenty of health promoting nutrients in plants that will never be found in animal foods or only scarcely.

    That is incorrect. Where is all the money? It lies with the Animal Products industries. You can prove this very easily. Where do all the subsidies go to? To the meat and dairy industry. Why do you think these foods are so cheap despite being much more expensive to produce than grains? Because we subsidize them to be so cheap. The amount of subsidies for plant foods used for human consumptions is only a fraction of that.

    Your comment about grains is unscientific:

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...human-health/D992CF3AF3244A6C85193EBF4557FD2A
    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/141/5/1011S/4600229
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0733521007001166
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2000.10718969
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002822301001948
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408399409527676
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2000.10718968
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf500932z

    I mean it's not difficult to find these studies, so how do you come to the conclusion that Whole Grains would be unhealthy? Yes, refined grains are unhealthy. But you can't measure whole grains by studying refined grains. People should switch from refined grains to whole grains to actually get the health benefits of this food group (high amounts of fiber and minerals + complex carbohydrates). Please get your knowledge from actual scientific data rather than keto/carnivore diet books and/or promoters of these diets on youtube.

    If you are feeling well on you diet that is good to you. Have you ever done bloodwork? If not, then go to the doctor and get a test done. This ought to be in your best interest. It is common for keto dieters to have elevated blood lipids as well as elevated blood sugar (suprisingly). Just because you feel well, doesn't mean that you won't develop health problems in the long run because that is precisely where we lack any data that would support the ketogenic/carnivore diet. If you are following a animal food heavy low carb diet, you are basically playing russian roulette with your health. I hope you keep an open mind and read some scientific data about nutrition.

    But please, stop spreading unscientific data about nutrition. If you are feeling well, that's great. But what you are promoting is dangerous and could potentially hurt and kill other people.
     
  11. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Vegetables wasn't something that existed until the agricultural revolution 10 000 years ago, especially not in Northern Europe/Scandinavia where the climate was more frigid. Hence, those foods are quite new to the human body and didn't exist before that time, thus they are man-made. What did people eat before that time do you think?
    Mainly meat, eggs, fish and insects which is why animal products is way more natural than vegetables. If the human body can adapt so quick to completely new and foreign foods, why can't no one thrive on a plant-based diet and why do all vegans become so weak, fatigued and sick (sooner or later) on their diets?
    Did they all do it wrong?

    Lectins damage your gut way more than you believe and you should consume lectin-rich foods in moderation. If lectins aren't real, how can so many people (myself included) become so ill in their guts from lectin-rich foods such as beans, peanuts, tomatoes and grains (gluten is a form of lectin, as well as WGA)?
    -https://www.kevinstock.io/health/health-dangers-of-lectins/
    -https://drgundry.com/lectin-guide/
    -https://drjockers.com/avoid-lectins-diet/
    -http://midwestsinusallergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/4-Steps-to-Heal-Leaky-Gut-and-Autoimmune-Disease-Midwest-Sinus-Allergy-in-Columbia-MO.pdf

    Nope, other lifestyle factors contribute way more than a high vegetable intake. The China-study and similar studies has very low credibility attached to them since the data is cherry-picked and leave out other lifestyle factors as well. What do you think the strong and well-built Mongolians ate (and are still eating) in that climate where very little can grow? I can assure you it's no a lot of vegetables in that diet and that Mongolians who stick to their traditional meat-diets are way healthier than their countrymen who start eating lots of grains on the side.
    https://chriskresser.com/rest-in-peace-china-study/

    Yes, they will laugh because they are ignorant and (mostly) only schooled in modern medicine and nutrition which is heavily sponsored/financed by BigPharma and BigAgra (aka "Big Grain"). Of course they want people to follow their advice, get sick, feel hungry all the time and take a bunch of expensive prescription drugs to abate the aches and pains that a high-carb diet give them.
    How can eating vegetables/crops grown by nitrate-fertilizers and lots of pesticide/chemical residues be healthy?
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-100825/Eating-vegetables-seriously-damage-health.html

    And I ask again, if vegetables are so healthy for us, why are there no healthy long-term vegans out there?

    Have you heard about soil-depletion over the past century? Most veggies today only contain a fraction of the nutrients they used to 100 years ago. Hence, it is much easier to get it from nutrient-dense foods like high quality meats, fish and eggs.

    https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-security/

    Try to think for yourself mate. A lot of those subsidies go to corn and grains and yes, some of it is used as feed for the cattle in factory farms but I have never defended factory farming or the low quality meat that comes out from there. What do you think are the most profitable processed foods out there?
    I can assure you it is cookies, cakes, potato-chips, bread, bars, pizza, pasta and everything else that contains cheap grains, starches and carbohydrates. Of course BigAgra want to focus on the most profitable foods there are which are those based on cheap grains. Grains can be stored for years and be used for plenty of processed foods whereas meat and dairy can't be stored for that long. Hence much of the grains' profitability.

    https://robertlustig.com/2018/04/malhotra-eu-big-food-pharma/

    Whole grains contain more lectins and pesticide residues (in the outer-shell) than refined grains do, hence they are even worse for you than normal grains. They elevate your blood sugar as well since all grains are turned into sugar upon digestion. This is the issue with people who rely too heavily on "established science" and authorities all the time. It is the same people who buy what the mainstream says about most things without questioning it for one minute.
    If a plant-based diet is so healthy, (once again) why do all the doctors who promote it look so aged, tired, weak and unhealthy? And why hasn't there been a single vegan tribe that have persisted throughout the history of mankind?
    Veganism is a trend and cult that isn't going to last for more than a few decades (at most) since they are all dropping off or either die, due to malnutrition, deficiencies and digestive issues.

    Do you still believe in Ancel Keys' adulterated research from the 1960's? People who follow high carb diets are playing the most roulette with their health and I can assure you that I will be at much greater odds if I eat more like my ancestors did than if I would embark on a high-carb diet.
    Also, most of the seed oils are loaded with Omega-6 fatty acids that damage your arteries way more than any amount of butter or lard will ever do. Sugar is just as bad for your arterial health. It is the consumption of and cooking with these vegetables oils (with the exception of raw olive oil, sesame-oil, and avocado oil) that give people heart-disease, not butter, lard or coconut oil.
    But unlike most vegans, I don't force or push my diet onto anyone, nor become aggressive if anyone wants to eat different than I do. I let people come to that conclusion themselves.
    https://www.ecowatch.com/dr-mark-hy...ould-not-be-part-of-your-diet-1882164589.html
     
  12. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    This literally doesn't matter. Vegetables have existed before 10k years ago and long before humans have existed. It was just the wild versions of them. But all vegetables we eat today have or had wild relatives somewhere on the planet. The animals we consume are also bred and have only existed for a couple thousand of years, so your argument should apply to that as well.

    People have only been living in Northern Europe for a few thousand years. The humans who migrated there already had intestines that were adapted to plant food consumption.

    Show me any proof for your ridiculous claims. There is no proof that people have mainly eaten the foods you have listed. The human genome and many aspects of our digestion system proof the opposite. We have high levels of amylase in our saliva which indicated a starch heavy diet, our intestinal tract is in length somewhere between that of an omnivore and an herbivore which indicates a diet that consisted of both plants and animal foods.

    The argument about vegans is also completely unscientific and totally condescending. I have been vegan for 8 years and I'm completely healthy and quite fit. But again, there is no scientific data backing up that ridiculous claim as well. I already linked you studies that showed the opposite.

    This is a 98 year old vegan:

    While this is an anecdote, it still proves your claim that all vegans become weak, fatigued and sick wrong. If you reach 98 years old in the first place, you are doing something right. If you look and act like that you are doing something very right. He died at the age of 105 if I'm not mistaken.

    Also, look at various vegan athletes and bodybuilders. Your claim is completely wrong and condescending.



    Which lifestyle factors are the most important we cannot tell, but since they are the longest lived people we can assume all lifestyle factors matter to some degree.

    When did I mention the China study? The scientific landscape is far larger than that as I have already shown you in the studies I posted.

    Mongolians eat primarily meat, sure. But do you know the population size of Mongolia? It's not even 3.5 million. That's because meat is an unreliable food source when looking at the larger picture. Societies have traditionally eaten mostly plants because that's the most reliable calorie source. Meat is not. Also, Mongolia has a life expectancy of around 70 years which is around 10 years shorter than most of the Western World and even more than that compared to a plant heavy nation like Japan.

    https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/mongolia-demographics/#life-exp

    Clearly, Mongolia is not a country you should use to trying to prove your argument. It actually hurts it.

    Literally nobody cares about Chris Kresser. He only gets hyped up by Joe Rogan who has dumped him after James Wilks totally embarrassed him on the JRE. Chris Kresser is not even a MD. So why would you refer to him? Please show me any valid scientific data to back up your claims.

    This is literally just a conspiracy theory. So I'm not going to give that much attention. Suffice it to say, that most crops around the world are used to feed livestock and not humans.

    Dailymail is not a valid source. Please link a valid scientific source.

    Where are the long term Keto/Carnivore dieters who are healthy?

    At least with Veganism, there is scientific data showing that Vegans can be totally healthy. Look at the Adventist Health Study 2.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/

    There, the Vegans had the best health outcomes along with Pescetarians. Among men, Vegans did the best and among women Pescetarians did the best.

    Again, most crops around the world are grown to feed livestock. This is most definitely a serious problem, but by eating more animals we are just making it worse since more and more grains and legumes are needed to feed those animals. If we'd just eat the plants, a vast part of the global crop land could be returned to natural wild areas through ecological succession.

    If you look at it in relation to the amount of food the animals eat, most subsidies go into the animal foods industries. Cookies, Cakes (which contain milk and eggs), chips, breads, bars, pizza (which most of the time contains cheese) and pasta don't require a lot. Potatoes are very cheap to grow and additionally you only need oil and salt. Not very expensive to produce. Same goes for Pasta or bread. You only need very few, easily grown ingredients to make these foods, which is why they are cheap.

    Meat on the other hand is extremely expensive to produce (which is why only the rich could eat it regularly before the 20th century). Take a cow. This animal needs to be fed massive amounts of food, be it grass or grains and legumes. This requires either vast amounts of grassland or vast amounts of grains and legumes which also need to be grown. The cow also needs some sort of shelter and it needs to be killed in the slaughterhouse and then processed in some sort of factory. This is by far more work and resources than any type of plant food production. So yeah, I think for myself. This is not very difficult. Meat is cheap and affordable because it gets massive subsidies.

    Grains can be stored for years is actually a great argument for it. What should people in tropical 3rd world countries eat? Meat spoils very quickly. Grains do not, so they are a much more reliable food source.

    Robert Lustig is a fat fuck. Why would you even refer to him? He is certainly not a good proponent of his diet.

    This argument is, again, invalid. Yes of course, pesticides are used, but that's why we wash them. They land on the outer shell. How are they supposed to get through that shell.

    And you have to keep in mind, that animals eat those grains so they get all the pesticide residue which people than consume in the end.

    Of course they elevate blood sugar. What's the issue? The issue lies with elevated fasting blood sugars which is an indicator of Insulin resistance. Since Vegans have the lowest risk of Type 2 Diabetes out of all diet groups (once again look at the Adventist Health 2 Study), this literally doesn't matter.

    Once again, this is totally condescending. These doctors look like normal people. Dr. Joel Kahn is in his 60s and looks phenomal:

    Dr Neal Barnard as well, and he is super lean on top:

    Caldwell Esselstyn is almost 90 and just look at him. How many people who are close to 90 look like that?:
    He looks absolutely phenomal. Most people his age are either dead or look close to dying.

    Just like there has been no Vegan tribe, there has been no Ketogenic tribe (and no, the Inuit are not one, nor are the Maasai. They just eat a meat and or fish rich diet. But they are not carnivore nor do they avoid sugars if they get the chance to eat it.)
    This is literally no argument about the validity of a dietary pattern. In ancient times people ate what they got their hands on, be it meat or plants. There was no concept like dieting back then. They were opportunists eating what they could to survive.

    And once again, please provide some information that validates your ridiculous claims about vegans.


    Aaaand once again. The scientific landscape is far larger than the China study or the Seven countries study, which definitely had some flaws in it. But just because it had some flaws, doesn't mean that it's base claim is wrong. Nutritional science has progressed in the last 60 years and has determined that plant based diets are the optimum for human health. Just because you can poke holes in 2 studies, doesn't prove your point.

    Please show me any scientific data that a high carb diet (not from processed foods but from whole foods) is dangerous for humans. I am getting really tired of this. All you are spewing is low carb conspiracy theorist nonsense. You have so far provided zero data to back up your claims.

    Some seed oils like Sunflower oil are rich in Omega 6 and are thus very unhealthy, true. Most oils, including Olive oil, Rapeseed (Canola) oil, flax seed oil, walnut oil and some of the oils you have mentioned have a very healthy Omega 6: Omega 3 ration and can thus be consumed in moderation on a healthy diet.

    Please show me any evidence that oils and sugar are the primary contributors of heart disease and not saturated animal fats.

    The data is clear. We know that saturated animal fats cause elevated LDLC which causes Atherosclerosis. There is no doubt about that anymore. But hey, flat earthers exist too. https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/24/2313/5735221

    You literally posted here before me trying to advocate your diet. I merely corrected all the false statements you made, so don't call vegans pushy. I never pushed veganism on you. It's you who started it all by making completely unscientific and false claims.

    I agree that vegetable oils should not constitute a large part of your diet. Best case, you don't eat any, but using the right oils sparingly is not a huge issue.


    If you post something again, please provide scientific sources next time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
  13. mufasa91

    mufasa91 Fapstronaut

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    I think young and old is not the issue here, eating right is important, when I’m going through this phase of reboot , I need help in a dietary way as well because i know I’m changing my habits and I will most definitely go through mood swings and diet can help us become better equipped.

    I prefer semi vegan but I would appreciate if we all come with effective diet plan for us all to take for a particular moment of time and see what changes we feel.
     
  14. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Well, you haven't provided much evidence either to be honest (Dr. Neil Barnard doesn't look very young and healthy for his age nowadays either) and seem to appeal a lot to authority. An authority that has laid up current dietary guidelines for the past five decades that have made people sick and fatigued. The food pyramid consist of 75% carbohydrates and apparently, people don't seem doing too well following it.
    If you want, continue to believe authorities, Big Pharma, Big Agra and the people in charge since you think they are all working for our best interest.

    You seem to be very angry and pushy, because I would never spend such vast amounts of time arguing with someone who isn't ready to listen or try something new. I's a waste of time and I rather spend time on people who have more of an open mind and want to listen at least a little. The brain is made up of cholesterol so a low cholesterol diet won't make your brain function properly in the long run. And yes, we can make our own cholesterol but that is far from sufficient for the cells' and the brain's high cholesterol need.
    People who are on a low fat, low cholesterol diet do all get cognitive issues and mood-swings sooner or later.

    And yes, I have tried since I was on a plant-based diet for 18 months (not made up of junk-foods), felt like crap, got digestive issues and started to feel alive again when eating meat, fish, chicken and eggs. The natural foods that my Scandinavian ancestors ate whenever it was available. At least we know for sure what they ate a few hundred years ago which was mostly meat and fish whenever they were available. Grains were used during starvation to dilute the more nutrient dense food with. Throughout history, grains have been used during food-scarce times as meat-replacements, not as the primary food source if animal-products were available.

    There is a good reason our stomach-acid is so acidic (for the digestion of meat and animal products) and still, I haven't seen one single healthy long-term vegan. Who knows? That 98-year old man might have been vegan for the last 2-3 years only. Why do almost every single one of those Youtube-vegans (who show what they eat in a day) seem so tired, malnourished and have psychological issues? Is it just a coincidence or could it be due to a lack of saturated fat and cholesterol in their diets?
    If a plant-based diet is so healthy, why does it spike the blood-sugar so you need to eat several times a day? (that's what those vegans seem to do, eat several times a day due to blood-sugar spikes). How can a diet that spikes your blood sugar be healthy?
    A nourishing and satiating diet should keep your blood-sugar stable and be able to feed you sufficiently through one single meal a day.
     
  15. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    You're still being ridiculous. I provided plenty of evidence with all the studies I linked. It's not my problem if you keep ignoring it. Neal Barnard looks excellent for his age. His is almost 70 and super lean. Who at that age looks like this?

    He doesn't appeal to authority. He appeals to the scientific consensus.

    Literally nobody cares about the food pyramid. Which Person in any Western country actually builds their diet around it? Seriously, people get their nutrition information, if they get any at all, from other sources these days. People in Western countries have never eaten a low fat diet.

    You know who the biggest client of big pharma is? The animal foods industries. They pump their animals so full of antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals. Big agriculture also equals the animal foods industries since most crops grown are used as food for livestock.

    I am angry because people like you share completely false and unscientific information that could potentially hurt people and on top of that is extremely environmentally devistating.

    The 98 year old man says that he has been Vegan for about half his life, which would be about 50 years. Maybe you would do some good actually watching the video.


    Well after all the scientific data I have provided it is obviously you who doesn't have an open mind.

    Cholesterol is not essential, the body makes it's own and it is more than enough for the human body. Once again, can you provide a source that gives any credit to your claims? So far you have not been able to do this even once. I mean, you're not making it any difficult to debunk your arguments, you know?

    Also, I have never advocated for a low fat diet. Fat is very important. But just like with carbohydrates you have to distinguish between good fats and bad fats.

    I just showed you 4 healthy long term vegans. Also, vegans are only a very small part of the population so you are not bound to meet many. Also, most vegans are young people since veganism has only been really known for around 15 years. Before that it was extremely niche and people didn't know about B12 supplementation.

    The youtuber argument ist just idiotic. First of all, people on youtube are not a representation of the average vegan, second, most of them look fine to me. Sure you can fine plenty of raw food vegans that look terrible, or some that suffer from eating disorders who may use Veganism to try to cope with it. But the problem does not lie with veganism then. You realize that Veganism is not a diet? Vegans, just like omnivores can eat very different from each other. The diet of one vegan can be totally different from that of another vegan. Just that makes it difficult to evaluate Veganism from a nutritional point of view. What we can do is evaluate single foods and their effects on health. And the scientific consensus is pretty clear on that. Whole plant foods are healthy and nutritious. Period.

    I'm certain there are unhealthy Vegans out there. But that does not necessarily say anything about how healthy a plant based diet is. Veganism =/= Plant based diet. You can be both or you can be just one.

    Once again, please provide a source for your claims about saturated fats and cholesterol.

    I showed you in my last post that Vegans have the lowest risk of T2D. Blood sugar is a more complex issue than: Eating carbs = blood sugar increase. There are things like fiber and certain gut bacteria that massively influence that.

    But I can tell you why Vegans eat several times throughout the day (I do it too). Plant foods tend to be lower in calories than animal foods. So, if you eat one full meal, it doesn't keep you full as long as an animal food heavy meal and you need to eat sooner again. This can help massively with weight loss, because simply by eating plant foods, you take in fewer calories. Actually this might be one of the reasons why some people feel weak on a vegan diet. They just take in too few calories. But that can simply be fixed by eating more (which I doubt most people are opposed to). If you go from an animal products heavy diet to a whole food plant based diet, it is very likely that you will under eat since your body is not used to eating food that is lower in calories.

    One single meal a day will never keep you full. It close to impossible for the vast majority of people to consume approximately 2500 calories in one sitting. Carnivorous animals can do that, humans in general can't.

    You also seem to ignore the effect of saturated fats on Insulin and it's strong link with Insulin resistance which is a massive component when it comes to lowering blood sugar (likely one of the reasons why it's not uncommon for carnivore/keto dieters to have elevated fasting blood glucose levels, e.g. see Sean Baker)

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413107000034
    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/01.cir.84.5.2020
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261561404000263
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0026049500913775
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197458005002770


    Again, do whatever you want, just stop sharing harmful information. I don't care what you personally do, but I care very much about people spreading misinformation and potentially harming others. So please stop.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  16. dnasurvivalmachine

    dnasurvivalmachine New Fapstronaut

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    I'm 19y old and started the carnivore diet about 5 months ago. God do I regret not starting sooner, my skin, sleep and digestion improved significantly and the depression from which I suffered since 11y old is completely gone. When you think about studies and graphs it may sound very controversial, but after reading the book Food and Western Disease I realized that nutritional sciences are almost as variable as magic science, there are too many factors to consider and we aren't even close to knowing it all and for every 1 study that stats "X is true" there is another stating "X is not true" or "X is true but only under certain circumstances".

    What I really recommend is experimentating with yourself to see the diet that fits you, human beigns evolved differently depending on geographical location and while X tribe could trive on X diet, the same may be not true for Y. That's why the best way to figure things out is listening to your body with an open mind and see what way of eating works. For me that was carnivore, i'm super happy and I don't want other foods. The vegan diet works fine for you, good, keep following it then, but don't try to push it on everyone because different organisms work different.
     
  17. Little Prince

    Little Prince Fapstronaut

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    You are not a different species from us so you can't thrive on a carnivorous diet because maybe your ancestors ate more meat, you just got lucky so far.
    Most people will die of a heart issue which are caused only by eating animal products. That alone should be enough to not be carnivore.
     
    Red Eagle likes this.
  18. dnasurvivalmachine

    dnasurvivalmachine New Fapstronaut

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    Even if you are right, tbh I still prefer to die from heart attack while living with a collected mind than live a long live with crippling depression, I'm not going back unless my mental issues come back
     
  19. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    No, you are probably angry because you don't get enough saturated animal-fats and cholesterol in your diet. Your brain is a high fat organ made up of fat and cholesterol. Eat some grass-fed steak and organic eggs and calm down:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...low-cholesterol-and-its-psychological-effects

    Yes, and that's the problem because consensus (be it scientific and political) consensus is usually damaging people more than it's helping them. People are afraid so afraid of questioning authority and think for themselves that they blindly appeal to and follow authority, no matter what.
    The CO2-climate hoax (i.e. anthropogenic global warming) is another great example of a scam that most people don't dare questioning as they have been scared to submission for decades.

    Yes, and there is a good reason as to why not many people want to become it in the first place. No one wants to be part of a cult/sect that promotes malnutrition and starvation, where people are depressed, fatigued and try to push their diets onto others, demonizing those who dare eating meat or eggs. B12 supplements are artificial and useless (in best case) and toxic. No human being should ever be consuming them as eating a piece of grass-fed beef is a whole lot easier and healthier. Especially not if the supplement is free from animal products:
    https://www.dodychiro.com/why-do-vitamin-b12-supplements-contain-cyanide/

    Yes, they tend not only to be lower in calories but also much lower in nutrients (and heavier in anti-nutrients), at least nutrients that are absorbable to the human body. Especially not in the absence of animal fats that could help the absorption a little.
    I eat one meal a day during a 3-4 hour window and can stay full for 24 hours without any problems (no blood-sugar spikes or drops at all).

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/78/3/633S/4690005

    If insulin-resistance was a problem for me, I would have massive weight-problem issues instead of being lean like now since insulin-resistance will result in more deposit/storage of body-fat. In ordet to adapting the body to fat-burning (whether it is the fatty acids from your food or stored body-fat), you got to eat mostly fat. If you don't, your body will have a much harder time processing and burning the fat that is left in your body.

    https://kaynutrition.com/2019/02/why-you-need-to-eat-fat-to-burn-fat/

    Veganism is the most damaging and hurtful cult there is. If veganism was so healthy and nutritious for all stages of life, why do we see little kids (with vegan parents) so malnourished on plant-foods-only diets?
    Did the parents not do it right?

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  20. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    Alright, first of all. The first study linked in this post actually acknowledges that high cholesterol causes coronary heart disease. The study points to people with very low cholesterol (don't know what very low means) having higher rates of depression and suicide which partly offsets the lower risk of death. Well, the study points out that there is no clear causation with low cholesterol levels and that this needs to be examined further. This is likely a simple correlation, e.g. people who eat little because of illness or old age have lower cholesterol levels due to fasting having a lowering effect on cholesterol levels. Not eating much or chronic illnesses could be the main contributor. However, this says nothing about plant based diets being unhealthy.

    Same goes for the second study. Notice that both studies don't adjust for the type of diet that is eaten.

    And btw, you seem pretty upset too. If I had to choose between dying of heart disease and suffering from some depressive symptoms and anger, I'd definitely choose the later.

    Yeah right....

    No really, how about you go outside once in a while. From your previous post I take that you are from scandinavia. Did you remember that the last few years were the hottest in scandinavian history since climate research was a thing? But whatever, some people care neither about logic nor facts. You seem to belong in that category too.

    Veganism is an ethical philosophy, not a cult. Your comment is simply ad hominem. Also, where do vegans promote malnutrition and starvation? Vegans are quick to educate new vegans about the importance of B12 supplementation and which foods to eat to get all your nutrients. Also, there is a big focus on ingesting enough calories. This hardly sounds to me like the promotion of starvation and malnutrition. B12 supplements work, I know that from personal experience. You don't even need to conduct a study to probe this. Just find someone, test their B12, then have them supplement with B12 for a week and test again. It is simple and it works. I have no idea where you get the idea from that B12 supplements are toxic, since it is literally the same type of molecule as found in animal foods.

    The link you shared also doesn't refer to any scientific data. If you are concerned about Cyanocobalamin you can easily get a B12 supplement without it.


    The fact that bioavailability for some minerals in plants compared to animals is lower, is well known. However, this doesn't mean you are going to suffer any nutrient deficiencies. This just means you have to make sure to eat more foods with those minerals. Iron for example can be easily found in green leafy vegetables, which are so low in calories that you can practically eat an endless amount of it. In practice, this is even a good thing because people are forced to eat more healthy foods to get those minerals and as a possitive side effect get large amounts of nutrients, antioxidants and secondary plant compounds which all have beneficial effects on the human body.

    Zinc is also more difficult to get but if you eat some nuts and/or legumes it's not difficult to cover your intake.

    Sure, there are some nutrients that are a bit more difficult to get on a vegan diet, but with careful planning, they can be easily obtained in a much healthier way than on an animal rich diet which comes along with all the previously mentioned unhealthy compounds.

    Also, you never mentioned antioxidants. No wonder, since animal foods are basically deficient in antioxidants

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1475-2891-9-3

    Also, Vitamin C, B1, B2, B6, E and K can all be easily obtained on a whole food plant based diet. A can be converted from Beta Carotine and K2 from K.

    Oh, and there is that sweet little thing called fiber.

    The only nutrients a person on a well planned whole food plant based diet needs to worry about are Vitamin D (which comes from the sun and is lacking in the winter) and B12 as mentioned previously. It's not difficult to supplement these. The issue with foods nowadays is not so much that people are deficient in nutrients, but they get too much of unhealhty compounds in food (cholesterol, trans fatty acids, saturated fat, high amounts of sulfur containing amino acids, heme-iron, refined sugar etc..)


    Not necessarily. If you just don't eat enough calories, even Insulin resistance won't cause you to be fat. I'm not saying that you have it, I'm simply saying that saturated fat has insulin resistant properties which need to be addressed, it's not simply: Sugar --> Insulin resistance, as is often claimed by keto dieters. The whole picture is a lot more complicated.

    The Kaynutrition link is not a valid source. It's just an online blog. It should be obvious that you shouldn't get your knowledge from online blogs.

    Just more ad hominem with out anything to back up your actual claims.

    Did you really just link me a video of Sv3rige? The guy who attacked his class mates with a knife? The guy who sun gazes? The guy who almost died of a bacterial infection he got from eating raw meat? The guy who drinks the milk of his girlfriend? The guy who eats raw, rotten, 6 month old meat?


    Raw foodism is unhealthy and is not directly linked to veganism. They are not the same. Sv3rige always looks for raw vegans and then applies their health outcomes to all vegans. I neither support nor condone raw food diet, especially to children. We can agree on the fact that eating only raw food is unhealthy to the human body, be it vegan or non vegan.

    Even then, the two women in the video look absolutely fine. The one on the left might be underweight which is quite normal on raw food diets. But yes, they should not feed their kids raw.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020

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