Will it ever end

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Healmyheart, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    It's been about 18 months since he last viewed porn and about 12 months since any attempt to look it up. The PIED had completely disappeared for longer than I can remember and although I am still suffering from the betrayal trauma a bit things were getting better and better. He has been home alone for the last 3 days, I've been at work. We were intimate 2 nights ago everything was fine. Tonight the ED (or is it PIED?) Returned. It caused a big argument he got really defensive and said it was because he had been thinking about how I don't like him home alone and was paranoid I was wanting to be intimate to test him out. Well after that I am suspicious again it's bought back all the bad memories. Although I'm pretty sure he hasn't lied to me about anything in a long time, it bought back all the memories of when he so convincingly lied in the past. I'm really not sure what to believe now. If he has relapsed or if it was just the worry of what I was thinking. After all the hard work it's really put me right back. I'm feeling so torn again.
     
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  2. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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  3. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Yes please
     
  4. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Lol, ok. Even if he hadn’t looked at porn in 12 months , it won’t matter much in long term recovery because it’s the fantasies and rituals that lead them back. You were intimate 2 days prior to him being home alone, what precaution did he take to offset the chaser effect? By being intimate you ignite the dopamine. I definitely would not be intimate with my husband if I know he’s going to already be in a tempting situation ( being home alone). The chaser is real and it’s a bitch. Just think of sex as a shot of whisky for a drunk. Then the Ed, that would set off my spidy senses but not that alone, his “defensiveness” ( addict) the innocent are empathetic to what u are going through and try to understand and reassure. Then the kicker.... you’re uneasiness, trust your gut. Our brains are amazing at protecting us, your brain has catalogue all his body cues and voice tones and word choices. You don’t even realize your brain had done this. If you think maybe he’s lying then I’d think 100% he’s lying. Been with my addict 33 years! I can tell immediately now when he’s acted out. We actually count acting out as fantasy or rituals, doesn’t even get to the point of looking at porn or Psubs.
     
  5. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    I haven't read much about the chaser effect, alot about everything else lol. We were intimate on night 1 of the 3 away. I've still got 5 more days to work. I feel like I've shut down at the moment, not sure what to think. Left for work and haven't even spoken to him. I'm just sick of the same argument. I thought being intermate might satisfy him, and was reassurance he wouldn't do it again after all it all started when his ex wouldn't be intimate for up to 9 months sometimes.
     
  6. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    It’s the opposite actually. The chaser usually hits my husband 12 hours to 48 hours after sex. He will get very strong urges. They are very difficult to resist. If you read the pa journals many succumbed right after sex. You’ve got to remember this is very strong addiction. Just replace sex with heroin or alcohol. You gave him a tiny bit of heroin when u had sex . The next day he has a urge for more because he has a taste. What is your husband/pa doing for recovery?
     
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  7. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Nothing he just stopped, he refused anything else. I try to do it at least every second day and I want to not because o feel I have to, he never wants it that often, he does sometimes in a row then goes for days. I'm now thinking the in a row days may be chasers effect. As he mentioned one morning being keen again for that night.
     
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  8. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Do you mean he’s doing nothing for recovery? If that is the case I don’t believe he’s been clean as long as he’s telling you. This is literally one of the most difficult addictions to quit. I’m a firm believer in the 90 day reboot no pmo. I wasn’t in the beginning ( I’m very high libido) until I really educated myself AND my husband talked to me about what happens to him after we have sex. They need to heal those neuropathways. What are your husbands triggers, inner circle, middle circle and outer circle behaviors? Most importantly how has he changed in your opinion since he got clean? He should be a very different person. Who does he talk to when he’s struggling?
     
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  9. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Also, I sometimes sound un empathetic, I’m just fascinated by how are brains work and how the addicts brain has been hijacked. I’m really sorry too that you even have to question if your husband is truthful or not. I feel a painful truth is better than a soothing lie.
     
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  10. Reverent

    Reverent Fapstronaut

    This is your answer. 99% chance he his lying. Defensiveness is an addict tactic.

    I'm sorry this monster is rearing his ugly head again. (Or not in this case, bad pun). The correct answer is simple.

    -We have sex, the husband's (my) penis doesn't respond?
    A. I am embarrassed, ask for some sensitivity and apologize. Explore the reasons compassionately and civilly.
    B. Apologize, empathize with her trigger, accept that my former behaviors caused her pain, reassure her that I'm indeed not acting out.
    C. Admit to my acting out, my current lying, and exactly why I can't get hard or finish. Hold nothing back and be completely transparent.

    That's it, No choice D. Never Defensiveness, never Deflection, never Denial.
    Blame, minimizing, gaslighting etc. or all others in the addict toolbox used to excuse the behavior and feed the addiction.

    How incredibly frustrating it must be to suspect and suffer again and again. I am sorry, this monster is real. The brain wants what the brain wants. It takes daily training and mindful decisions every day to overcome it. It is no easy thing to just stop. Us PAs have quit a million times all on our own, believe us.

    Best of luck. Trust your gut, be kind to yourself.
     
  11. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Received this message at work today.

    How's it going I found last night very hard to get a cross what I was saying I fuckt it up and got frustrated then it went all wrong I didn't mean to get angry that's the frustrating bit and the embarrassment reading this book it takes a lot off concentration it's slow but iam getting through some pages.
     
  12. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    Uff, I am struggling how to write this down. Hopefully you will get the message….

    As far as I see it, @Psalm27:1my light speaks from one extreme (we have had few discussions here, nothing personal, just exchanging opinions) like if she saw the addiction behind every corner, every single hesitation, vacillation of her partner… Perhaps she has good reason for it and perhaps she wants to protect other SOs from the pain we PAs cause to them. I can understand it and it will become clear latter why I am even mentioning it now.

    I also agree with @Reverent that I would treat this situation in his A, B, C ways either. But can I tell never D? Never ever? I am not fairly sure myself and it also depends on how temper your pa is. I can imagine the fear your partner may have experienced if he really had resisted during that three days but he faced your (and perhaps also his) disappointment/disturbance about the ED again.

    The problem is that if he had resisted and you treat him as he had not (do not trust him), however he should in his situation, he might not stay strong enough and fall into his bad habits again just because of the lack of your trustfulness. On the other hand, if he had fallen there already and you treat him as if he had not (you express trust to him) it is very unlikely he would listen to the voice of his conscience and quit immediately. To the contrary, he would likely be unable to resist listening to what his daemon says and that is betray you foolish one just the more…

    In conclusion, you can worsen the situation either way and have no way to find out the truth. So what now?

    If I may advice (from the men perspective) forget about his PA, forget about whether he had resisted or not, whether he is again into it or not. (I am not dumb and understand that this is not really possible due to your betrayal trauma). The problem is that you are never fully able to be sure and it all only hurts you back again and again… This way, you are only soaking your mind in your very woman-like pain that never stops unless you break the circle.

    Just imagine for a while you do not know anything about his PA. Is he the man you want to live with? Does he treat you with respect, intimacy, love? Does he care about your future, your material welfare, your life? Does he express emotional and physical attraction to you, does he admire you, does he touch your body to please you and not (only) him? This is what you deserve and (I believe) expect from your man.

    If you suffer in most of these needs (no men is ideal, indeed) feel free to leave him. And if you eventually do so, do not say “I am leaving you because of your PA”. Just say “I am leaving you because I do not deserve the way you treat me. I cannot bear it anymore!” It’s up to him to set up his thoughts and decide whether it was his P-addiction that brought him and his relationship to that point. It’s not your task.

    If, on the other hand, you decide to stay, speak to him openly about your feelings, worries and your trauma. Express full support and trust to him and wants him to be 100% honest to you. But do not care whether he is or not. You can never know. All that matters is how you feel with him when you stay open and honest.

    I am very sure that if he is unable to break his PMO habit AND you stay open to him as to your own requirements, feelings, worries and trauma, he would not be able to treat you as you deserve and you will learn it soon as his angry will rise up or he will become sheepish. If he is doing his best, then he will learn your feelings and treat you better and better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  13. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for your response budvap, it has been really helpful and made me think. If none of his PA existed and a few of his other secretive ways with other women that has now also stopped, then yes he would be the one I want to spend my life with. Now that I've cooled down and done some checking I do think maybe he's telling the truth. What happened last night bought back some really horrible memories and there is no way ever I want to go through that again. I'm really scared of what it will do to me mentally and where I'll end up. I've been pretty much to breaking point and feeling like I should be in a psych ward when all the lies, deception and gaslighting was going on and I knew more than he knew I did. I'm really scared to go back there.

    Because of all this I now want more from the relationship, when we first got together 4 years ago all this was going on unbeknownst to me, we have both been married twice before but agreed that we didn't want or need marriage. Given everything that's happened I've changed my view point and think marriage shows a deeper commitment. I now want more of a commitment from him and to not feel just like one of his possessions. When he said he didn't want to get married I'm thinking was his porn brain talking and feel I will never be as good as the others he did marry. We are also not financially together as I have refused once learning about the addiction, however I was expecting him to fight for us to be more united both relationship wise and financial like a "proper couple " he hasn't even tried there and just accepted what I've said like he really doesn't care that much.

    I'm currently reading Mark Mansons book, when everything is fucked (a book about hope) and it talks about equalizing the relationship. I think that's why I now want more than originally because it's been so bad I want more to feel like it's back to just being normal ( not explaining myself very well lol).
     
  14. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    Your post made me both sorry and confused. You write “he would be the one I want to spend my life with” but the rest of the post is like a list of reasons that state the opposite. His not only PA but also other secretive ways with other women. Your scare about getting into that insufferable past. His resistance to marriage. His no care about your relationship altogether.

    Has anything of that changed about him? Do you have any hope for your future? How do you feel with him right now?

    I don’t know, it all sounds like he was really the bad one so I nerly regret what I wrote in my previous post. Maybe I just misunderstand your reply…
     
  15. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    I'm really confused and losing hope for the future, I feel he's just doing enough to keep me but won't do any more or take the extra step. I've talked about it with him until I'm blue in the face and he just says he's incapable of all that and it's not him to do all that romance stuff and commitment. When things are good we get along really well until something blows up or my mind goes to what he's done and ii feel he's not putting in the effort to really make it up to me.

    I can see he's trying to be more honest but I still doubt the extent of the honesty, guess I'm programmed now to expect lies from him.
    I would love all of this to just go away or for him to confess his undying love for me, just something to make me certain.

    I'm really confused right now, it feels like I'm not worth the effort to him
     
  16. Bulk-er

    Bulk-er Fapstronaut

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    In my opinion when a man is in a relationship and he's sure his woman love him and will never leave him, he's less motivated to abstain from porn.
    Think about long time married couples: many times routine and daily problems kill the passion and we (men) need anyway to get off and porn literally give a shot of wellness and as you know, it become an addiction: the main problem is when this addiction bring to erectile dysfunction as happened to your man.
    He has to decide what he wants from his life, untill that moment it will be too easy to fail over and over again to porn and Pied will stay there.
    A single man with zero or little experience may be more motivated to cut for ever with porn cause he knows that he can't approach any women having a big erectile dysfunction, this mean he will never have a normal and full life, no family, no kids, nothing.
    While a married or engaged man with an understanding partner, feel less anxiety for his future and he's not even so worried about PIED, cause he's already has a social status ( married or engaged) and even if he does not have sex with his partner he still can satisfy his needs with porn where having a strong erection or a semi erection is not so important, but give that shot of pleasure and control that can be long or short or mutilple during the day.
    How to compete with such a pleasure machine? it's not easy.
    Do you know what kind of porn your man watch? any extreme sex? fetishes? if he has escaleted with porn categories it's hard for a woman to compete with those extreme stuff.
    Normal sex is no longer appealing, is too soft in comparison with what he can see and feel online with his own hand and choosing what to watch, increasing the intensity simply watching another and more strong vid.
    What to do then?

    - menace him to break up with him. I mean, has to be a realistic option, a kind of ultimatum: well, it might bring lot of anxiety to him and it will be easier to fall again into a massive porn use to relieve from anxiety, but at the same time it should open his eyes on his future without you and it might be a strong motivation for him to leave porn forever.

    -break up with him. Well, those moments are hard for everybody, so for men suffering of Pied represent the main door for coming back to Porn that anesthetize the pain, the sadness and so on. After ejaculation he will feel worse and to get away from that feeling he will look for a solution in another porn session, every time longer in order to lenghten that sense of wellness and postponing the ejaculation moment: this will make Pied worse but in those moments he will see porn as unique solution to his problems.

    -try to experiment some kinkier sex the one he enjoy on porn (it depends how extreme are his porn tastes, but for sure, we like something more intense than normal, common sex).
    In this way he will feel hornier and instead of giving vent watching porn he can do it in real life with you: you become his new big turn on with all the benefits of being a real person.
    Of course you have to be up for that, do not force yourself. The problems he has developed are his own problems, it's his life: you have your own life and his problems are ruining your life as well.
    If he's not able to take a decision for his life and his life in couple with you, well try yourself to take a decision for yourself: am I ready wait for him? does it worth my time? should I leave him and aim to a better life?
     
  17. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    Oh no! This story sounds very different from your original post. It sounds nothing like he had been clear for 18 months, all good to you, trying to do his best and now you got worried because of ED last night. It sounds more like he is not treating you the way accountable partner should treat his woman at all.

    First of all, it does not sound like his P-addiction was either off or it was the primary problem in your relationship. But I do not feel like authorized to judge…
     
  18. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    And the last note to prevent misunderstanding…

    When I wrote
    I meant it literally. So not as “If none of his PA existed …” but as “If it existed or not, but if he behaved exactly as he behaves now, just you did not know about his PA, …”. What I meant was that wondering about whether or not he relapsed only compicates the matters. All that matters is how you feel with him as he is right now...
     
  19. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    I don’t think I see pa around every corner, my reasons for my conclusions... threefold, they had sex, ( chaser might be a problem) he’s home alone ( usually a trigger/problem for every pa) he couldn’t get it up( warning) he gets defensive when asked ( bigger warning) and she feels uneasy( huge warning). Only an SO of a porn addict knows how scary accurate our gut is. Then I asked her what he is doing for recovery? Because it is very hard to kick this without help.
     
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  20. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    A single man with zero or little experience may be more motivated to cut for ever with porn cause he knows that he can't approach any women having a big erectile dysfunction, this mean he will never have a normal and full life

    He had pied when I first met him and was unsuccessful in bed for months, (he just said it was stress from the previous breakup) until he started to try masking it with V . I had no clue pa was even a thing back then. It was nearly 2 years before I made the discovery.
    His porn use looks like it was just 3 somes and younger women but nothing over the top.
    As far as trying something kinky goes he is very awkward and vanilla in bed, once I discovered all the porn use I went and bought alot of sexy lingerie, I might as well have been in a potato sack as he turns away or closes his eyes when I undress like he's embarrassed or something, this has done nothing for my self esteem. I have also noticed when we are out or even at home, if I'm sitting next to him I get attention from him but if I get up and dance he will not look at me not even a glance, almost to the point of turning the other direction it's like he can't. I've asked him about it and he said he didn't realise he was doing it. I just find that all very weird.
     

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