Will it ever end

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Healmyheart, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    How I feel right now, before the other night. I felt great, but just hoping the relationship would move forward and progress to a greater level of commitment.
     
  2. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    He did admit to me a few months ago that he struggled to start with and then he would just think "what are you doing to this person you love ". I thought that admission was a big break through as he would never mention anything like that in the past. He said at the time that now he doesn't even think about it anymore.
     
  3. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    I am sorry to say that this seems very p-addiction like behaviour to me. I behaved just the same way when I was deep into it. So tired/exhausted of PMO that I new I would not make it for my wife that I rather pretended no interest. Also turning my eyes different direction sounds very familiar to me. A mix of embarrassment (the ubiquitous feeling of shame was accompanying me whenever I was PMOing so I had problems to look into one's eyes, even be it a stranger, the more my wife ) and physical and mental inability to act...

    And yes, I always replied to my wife I did know what she was speaking about. Yet, I knew it (or at least was aware of it) very well. Just lying to her!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  4. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Did you and your wife make it through?
    How long have you been p free now?
     
  5. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    @budvap were you intimacy anorexic? My husband was.
     
  6. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    I should perhaps add that, to my experience, stop PMOing and quitting the addiction is not the same thing.

    This gonna be a confession that no SO must like to hear. Yet, it fits into this thread, I am afraid. Even when I was not PMOing (either voluntarily or because of circumstances) the symptoms described above were still with me. Even when I was not PMOing so I really wanted my wife sexually, I still couldn’t help myself. My sexuality was every inch poisoned with porn. I saw my wife – the one I always claimed I was loving so much, and yes, I would swear on it – so I saw this my beloved wife as a piece of meat in the bed. Observing her with cold emotions, unable to connect. Even if it was OK otherwise, so little closeness when came to sex. Just thinking how to squeeze more sexual feelings from our so-called intimate time and felt disconcerted of not being able to reach them. And she could feel it and I knew she could. That only made me more detached since I did not know how to deal with all these lies I was living in. That’s the trauma I gave her in return for all her intimacy and sex-appeal she tried to give to me.

    It was not always that bad. Sometimes I had more clean mind than other times. Anyway, it was always bad from the normal perspective. It was not until I really start hating my addiction and made an ultimate decision to quit forever that things started to change. My wife appreciated changes in my personality literally from day 1, and so did I. I even do not know if one can quit on his own or it is just a miracle. I tried so many times with more or less success but it’s completely different now and my wife sees it the same way.

    So what I am saying is that even if your pa may be not PMOing for some time (yet 18 months is more than I can ever imagine if not clear) he may be still trapped in the addiction pattern (as form what you describe here).
     
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  7. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Pretty much what I said in my very first post. It’s not just about quitting pmo. It’s stopping the addiction. That requires a lot of intentional work. 33 years my husband and I have been together, we’ve probably made just about every mistake you can In trying to heal/fight this addiction. One thing I can say “ I’ve never met or heard of a recovered addict that just quit because he saw what it did to spouse”. They need to do the work, that could be on line groups like this, counseling, 12 step, homework, accountable partner, total disclosure to spouse or significant other. Mine knows that I will not hesitate to spring a polygraph on him. Haven’t done that in a long time, lol. But my safety is now and will always come first above his discomfort or embarrassment. He does all of the above, even seeing that, there are times I will bring something up with our csat. Then he asks in group and then we talk about that. My husband loves me more than any other person in this world. He works so hard at not ever going back, in a year he’s had 3 slips, ( all after a chaser). No porn but he resets if he starts the ritual cycle. That would be middle circle behavior. His goal is constant outer circle behavior.
     
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  8. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    My wife knows (openly) about my p-addiction for a couple of years (we are married 16 years and I am sorry to say that I was PMOing even when we were dating, and few years before). But it combined with my workaholism, too. You may read something about it in my other post. To make long story short, we happened to have two apartments, one that we rented and one that we had bought and now wanted to sell (then buy another one and move there from that we are renting). Finally, my wife got psychically burned out and decided to stay in one of the two apartments so we currently live apart. At the same time, I decided to quit P forever and I am on hard mode (PMO free) for 35 days now. But it all is much longer process of fighting my addiction, being clear for some time and back into it again. Both I and my wife have several years of psychotherapy behind us as well (individual, not as a couple), and there is much much more to tell…

    The fact that my wife decided to stay in a separate apartment and I decided to quit P forever is a coincidence, however improbable it may seem. Synchronicity, if you know the term :) (although I do not believe in it myself much…) I see it more like we just live common lives that result in synchronized consequences.

    Anyway, we talk a lot, visit each other on regular basis, still feel as a married couple, still hope in bright future. But that would be absolutely impossible if God did not open my eyes (I have to say it like this since I really have not better explanation for it) and I would not take my addiction seriously. This forum is helpful tremendously, I must say.

    So there is no happy-end (yet?). I must prove myself serious about my effort and my wife must recover from it all and forgive me. I have to be prepared that we eventually split. If so, I already know (feel strongly) that I will be able to get back into normal live and I am forgiven by God for what I have done. But I would also know that I was given a present of invaluable price that I exchanged with a sneaky sharper for a handful of trinkets… Now I can only hope I can win my gem back to my hands!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  9. budvap

    budvap Fapstronaut

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    I do not understand "anorexic intimacy". Can you specify better?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  10. fadedfidelity

    fadedfidelity Fapstronaut

    NO! NOPE! Don't do it!! This is the worst advice ever. This makes everything worse! The man uses the women as a Psub, and it becomes very triggering and disrespectful and makes her feel dirty. Would you ever suggest to a man to just do what her other "boytoys" do for her in bed and act it out?? Knowing he would be a lesser and used as a substitute fuckboy? Knowing she really didn't care about him and it was all to satisfy her addiction? This is an addict way of seeing things.

    In a loving, strong relationship where there is no porn addiction then adding a little spice to the sex life is great. However, we are in a porn addict forum.
     
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  11. fadedfidelity

    fadedfidelity Fapstronaut

    Woman to woman real talk: You need to step away and take a break to clear your mind. Focus on your own self care, focus on your career, focus on new hobbies and new friends, take a vacation. It almost seems like you are co-dependent on relationships with men....no matter how toxic and unhealthy it might be for you.
    You keep saying you are confused over and over. You admit he has been an addict from the start. You admit that you both agreed you didn't want marriage from the start. You started a relationship with an addict and were good with him as far as his addict personality is concerned--the PIED from the beginning, the lack of intimacy in bed, etc.
    Now you want to change all of that but he isn't on board? Sorry to say, but it's not going to happen. He hasn't even decided to change for himself and hasn't started therapy, right?
    What you are wanting from all of this is not healthy for you. You cannot make a PA commit to a stronger, deeper bond when it is impossible neurologically currently. He cannot cold turkey "quit" this addiction and change into what you ultimately desire.
    In my opinion, just because he doesn't want marriage and doesn't want to combine finances with you doesn't mean its because of "addict" brain. He has been married 2 times already, as have you. Perhaps his marriages ended because of his porn addiction and addict behaviors? Perhaps your marriages ended because of something you are repeating in this relationship? Why would you want to continue this cycle? I think you both need to care for yourselves right now. The healthiest thing would be for you to separate and clear your mind--both of you.
     
  12. Bulk-er

    Bulk-er Fapstronaut

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    I agree with @fadedfidelity.
    It's hard to break up with a person when feeling inlove, but porn addiction is not something that you can fight in his place.
    Sex and intimacy is something essential in a couple and you can't have this from him now neighter in short time and not even in long time if he's not motivated to change life ans save your relationship.
    You've to be more selfish for the sake of your future even if it's hard to accept it now and re start again, being single, adult, wanting a good man to share life together. It's hard.
    I'm telling you this as if you were a close friend of mine or my sister.
    A man should focus first of all to solve his own problems in order to be worthy to have a full relationship with a woman and sex, sex with love should be one of the best things for a couple.
    He simply can't give that satisfaction to a woman with his porn addiction problem: his mind have to forget the pleasure connected with masturbation on porn and the dopamine hits you get from porn are stronger than normal sex: porn is a drug, that's why we ve been always adviced not to try any drugs, cause otherwise it become an addiction.
    And btw, no matter how many days he abstains from porn if after months he's still lusting for porn: he was resisting to porn,but resisting it means he want it. This should be acceptable for the first period when he's fighting with his habits, but as I said in my first reply, he has to be motivated to quit porn from the bottom of himself.
     
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  13. odie

    odie Fapstronaut

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    Just a suggestion (I haven't read all previous posts, so I don't know if you if you have this in place) - but accountability software worked wonders for us. Helps me know if there's for sure something going on instead of guessing and keeps him accountable. We installed it on all devices (including mine that he might have access to) at his request. That way if he has a moment of weakness there's no sneaky way around it or a loophole.
     
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  14. Bulk-er

    Bulk-er Fapstronaut

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    If a man does not fully decide to change and to quit for itw own reasons, is useless to control if he tries or not to watch porn: porn changed our brain pathway, so if we're forced to abstain from porn we play fantasies based on porn, that as we know is far away from realistic sex.
    Do you think it will change a lot watching porn or resisting to watch porn and have fantasies about porn? Nothing will change.
    It's the same feeling when a person wanna make a diet to get in shape for summer: the person is not motivated to change its lifestyle eating heatlhy for the rest of his life as a new good habit: he just need to lose weight for summer and going to the beach in a decent shape, but he will feel the diet as a deprivation: in the beginning he will go crazy craving for sugar, carbo....then resisiting to it he will feel less need of it.....but he didn't decide to quit with that kind of food: he just need to wait some month no to ruin the weight loss before of summer: once he got that weight goal he will be even less motivated to continue and even summer will pass and the craving for that food is still there and there no longer a strong reason to avoid it.

    If a person decide to go vegan it's high motivated for its own reasons to change his habits, his old life and embrace a new life style: he will miss meat in the beginning as something tasty, but for being vegan he have to forget about meat and he's fine with that, cause he suffers for all the pain animal have to go through for our selfish pleasure.

    So, if a man decide to quit porn, is because he's highly motivated: maybe being aware he's risking to loose forever his erections? I bet if something like that should appear even for few days by case, most of men will manage to go cold turkey in a moment.
    Or maybe the love your life decided to leave you for this problem that is ruining everything , so you ( man ) u ll be without your love of ur life, and u ll remain with porn and a penis that does not work when it should....and it will be a mess to find another woman, both because u're afraid to fail with ur penis, and because not all the women are understanding, and not all the women fall in love with you putting aside sex life for some long periods waiting for you to recover.
    Inlove and caring and stubborn women can do that, but if a man date a woman and he does not perform for 1, 2, 3 times, the woman is going away logically.

    So, first of all, he has to see porn as his ruin, and quitting porn in all the way as his chance for a better life:
    Untill he's in his comfort zone with porn or porn fantasies and his girlfriend with him...he will postpone everything till the moment it will be too late, both cause drastically losing his erections, or losing his love of his life.
    Having a girlfriend is an asset, a convenience, while having a pure love is a godsend and a man can die for his love.
    It should be easier to quit porn for saving a relationship of love than diying for protecting his love.
    Try to give him an ultimatum in order he to face how his future life might be without you and you'll find out also what he really feel
     
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  15. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    For the addict who really wants to, there are loopholes. We pay for 3 different accountability software and my husband bypassed it twice in the beginning. Since my only boundary is if he lies ( doesn’t tell me about relapsed) I leave. For good. So, he was more afraid of not telling me than telling me. Just don’t think like I did, that there aren’t any loopholes, addicts are sneaky and smart! However, the software makes it harder which give them a chance to say “ what the heck am I doing” and helps prevent relapsed. Also gives them a moment to reach out and call ap.
     
  16. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    He did want to combine finances but I refused after finding out about the porn, we had been in discussions about it again until this.
    Both his previous marriages ended for different reasons and the porn started after them in a long term relationship he was in where she refused to be intimate with him for months on end, that ended when she had an affair which I know is right because I've moved to his town and heard from alot of people.
    I left both of my marriages for other reasons, the first I think because I was pushed into it too young by my mother and the second because we just grew apart in my eyes anyway (he wanted to stay). I was then single for 5 years before meeting my current partner that I had known of since high school.
     
  17. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    I would hazard a guess that his porn use started well before he ever married anyone. I would also say it had an effect on all his relationships. Had I left my husband years ago, he would not have said it was due to porn, lol. He honestly didn’t think it affected our marriage in any way. Omg! It affected us beginning on our honeymoon! He didn’t see it and I didn’t know what was wrong until 5 years later. Now, he knows if I leave it is all because of his porn addiction. I told myself I’d stay until my youngest graduated and then I’m gone!! He has been clean almost a year, his transformation is amazing. He is literally a different person, voice deeper, face more masculine, so much more thoughtful. He’s honest, that’s a first. And here’s something weird his fingernails have always been rippled/ disgusting and doctors sent him to specialists but no one knew what was going on, they are almost perfect now, first time since I’ve known him (35 years). No more pied, he’s rock hard and responds like he never did before. You know when they are clean, you no longer feel the crazies, the doubt is just gone. You also just know when they relapse( or I do).
     
  18. Reverent

    Reverent Fapstronaut

    @Psalm27:1my light I sincerely appreciate your no nonsense, matter of fact, don't beat around the bush, honesty and clarity.
    @Healmyheart As a Porn addict of 33 years, I can honestly say Psalm27 knows what she is talking about. She obviously has studied it, empathized with it, and lived it, fought it, and understands men and this addiction in a superb way.
    There is so much wise counsel on this thread. Some better than others. But there are definitely some courageous women who have been in the trenches with all this and know what's up.

    Whatever excuses you make for him, or pain you are trying to avoid, know it will never help you in the long run. Trust your gut, and if you can't do that, trust these brave women who have acted on their guts, and can spot an addict from a mile away.

    You deserve kindness, you deserve intimacy. Be kind to yourself. Peace.
     
  19. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    Yes everything in our house has adult restrictions on them.
     
  20. Healmyheart

    Healmyheart Fapstronaut

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    He has explained to me in depth how and when he got into it, it was with his last partner of 10+ years,(never married this one) he's never spent much time single between partners. He's said it wasn't until he got his first smart phone and moved to the town we now live in (It's a mining town and I now also work in the mine). He moved here with his ex and things weren't good with them. He met other men here who introduced him to it. I do believe that one as he is a machinery operator and the most tech unsavy person I know. I'm the one who placed all the restrictions and then sat back and watched his attempts to look it up unbeknownst to him until I confronted him. When restrictions are on you can't delete search history (added bonus for me that I found out later). So I kept seeing what he'd searched and it came up restricted access. Anyway on d day I asked him how long it had been going on and he said oh years before you and explained about when he got the smart phone and everything escalated. I too have seen the difference in his appearance it was weird, like looking at 2 different people, sometimes one really ashen and old looking and other times one more vibrant. At the time I questioned myself how someone could look so different at time yet they are the same person. It makes sense now. I will never forget the day I'd first put the restrictions on and gone to see my councillor knowing full well what he would be attempting while I was gone. When I got home he said he was really tired and wanted a rest, we went to bed. I can remember thinking at least he's turning to me now. Fast forward to now, I can think of 2 times he has really passionately kissed me, for the first time ever in the 4 years we have been together, it felt like finally he is really into me.
     

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