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For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ
@Run_Like_Joseph_Did and did you ask her out? were the signs there? were you confident enough?
Sadly I did't see here at church yesterday, maybe she went to an earlier service or something. But, I absolutely plan to ask her if I see her at the Seder Service that my church is holding this Wednesday. Do ya got any quick advice for me to take?
Hey I just read all the post and replies and I think you are on a great journey. I am doing the same and I am actually putting off dating till I can master this thing a bit more.
I agree with the gents in saying that it is probably wise to not ask out until you have reached a certain goal.
Reason 1 being it will actually motivate you to reach your goal and
Reason 2 being (sorry if this will be deep) us who are caught on PMO, our brain constantly fires those neurological pathways that leads to PMO, so I don't want to make this sound harsh but we do struggle to see the fullest potential in any girl for that matter of fact. Some part of us sees them as commodities and although I know that is not what you actually think, it does have an effect on how we treat woman. That is the thing you would want to solve, because before you can do that, then you will always look for something in a woman to fill this desire that you have and woman were not meant to fulfill this specific desire, because well they can't. Think of all the girls we've been looking at on the internet, they really can't compete with that and some men even gets bored with what they find on the internet and the last thing we want to do is get bored with any girl.
I say give it some time, listen, every time someone is in love they think they will never ever find someone like this again. But you will, you really will...and if in the time that you lose her, you gain victory in this, then you will be even more desirable because you will be able to see the full value in woman and there are not a lot of guys that can do that
Sorry for the long post
I see you are at day 1 so my quick tip would be stay away from the computer and avoid alone-time as much as possible.
I like the post by @Newmanman and his reflected thought on the subject, but I agree to disagree. the post is rather theoretical and in theory the concept is nice. but imo it doesnt work that way in practice. so coming from a pragmatic standpoint, I would just ask her out, even if your counter badge is low in figure. but we talked about that before! I know with this I am against mainstream here but I think I have a point: women do transform men, and help them move from their wilderness to a wiser state of being. this is what the Gilgamesh-Epos is all about (it's about other subjects too, but I find this most intriguing). there is Gilgamesh's friend who is the personified wilderness (can't remember his name. anybody?), he's a man that no one can defeat and terrorizes the whole city. he was sent to kill Gilgamesh. but somehow they become friends. he then moves into Gilgamesh's city and finds a women there and suddenly she makes him become soft. long story short: in the beginning of dating you might find yourself thinking about her as a thing to have sex with (even if this is only very rare), but through interacting with her you will learn that she is so much more than that. she will "help" you move from a wild man to a wise man. of course, this is mostly up to you, but she can assist you. through being with her you will also find more motivation to stay away from porn. it's a self-reinforcing circle. so don't blame yourself for the low day counter or doom yourself to waiting, but ask her out, learn to be with her with an open heart and and transmute your sexual desire into sth productive!
but remember: one step at a time. tmr at church talk to her, look for the signs of attraction, and then ask.
and one final thing: chances are 50/50 that she responds positively. but if she doesn't don't ask the "why" question! accept the rejection as is, stay polite and walk away (in the metaphorical sense). then maybe she's so intrigued by your "manly" behavior that her interest in you grows and maybe (but only maybe) she comes back to you and indirectly "invites" you to ask her out again.
stay strong, mate!
Thanks for the help everyone who bothered to help me out with the advice. I'll post the day after on how the experience went(just pray that I get the pair to actually speak up).
short story, i didn't manage. She wasn't at the service like I thought she would be. I'm upset, disappointed, and not sure why. At least I didn't chicken out, but I feel upset that I'm going to have to wait even longer before I can actually do something productive with these feelings I have. As soon as I left for home I started having these idiotic thoughts that maybe its just not meant to be. As if I have even the slightest idea of what God has in store for my future. Anyway, I'm still gonna try whenever I do get the chance to see her again. Once again, thanks everyone for the advice, and lets keep this forum going till I finally pull it off.
It's true that it's just a number, but I believe you should take it seriously enough to know your limits. I f you were to ask this girl out tomorrow and she said yes, do you think that you can commit to the relationship? Not to hate on you bro, but you don't want to face her as an addict, you want to face her as a more stable and committed person. Eventually, you would have to tell her about your PMO at some point so to establish complete honesty; but it is better to do it as a man you has stayed the course vs a man who fell off the wagon for the hundredth time. What you do is up to you, but I hope the best for you man.
I have some suggestions for you friend..
I learned some things when I as a young man and not consumed by PMO yet, from an older woman I had some encounters with.. she taught me several techniques in dealing with just what your struggling with.. Confidence.. and the only reason you can't find it is your fear of rejection.. and it's only natural because everyone fears that no one wants to be rejected. You're thinking about this girl and you're thinking about this girl and you're building your hopes up the whole time.. you're trying to build up the confidence and nerve to even go and ask this girl... And when you do you're going to go in there all fluttered up and nervous as all get-out when you do because you've been building your hopes up so much, cuz if you're nervous about it now you're going to be nervous about it then. if she likes you she'll thinks that's cute but if she doesn't it's just going to be awkward... and that's a strange position to be in.. all nervous up and asking a girl out blood pumping, hanging on her answer...
So here it is the advice the technique the understanding of the dynamic that's about to happen.. when you go up to someone and ask them out on a date, you are asking them a direct question. Asking someone a direct question means they have to supply an answer on the spot. There will only be three types of answer.. Yes, No, or Maybe.. only one is favorable the other two are rejections.. so immediately you're stacking the odds against yourself.. so how do you turn the odds in your favor that you won't be rejected.. simple. You don't Place her in the position where she might have to. You like this girl and you want her to know that you like her.. but you don't have to go up and directly ask her out on a date to do that..
YOU CAN MAKE A SUGGESTION... It's smoother, it shows confidence.. it tells her all she needs to know without putting her on the spot.. I'm assuming you know and talk to this girl at church.. so in your talks, you need to look for your opportunity to make a suggestion.. examples..
Found out girl I liked enjoyed playing pool.. there it is. Hey I like playing pool to maybe we should go sometime.. it's an offer that she doesn't have to respond to it all if she doesn't want to because you didn't pose a question you posed to suggestion that requires no response... Now you're really hoping she will want to go play pool but you didn't put yourself in the position to be rejected and now she has some time to think about how she feels about it and you just sit back and wait.. well it only took like 2 or 3 days and she came back and said hey let's go play some pool. And wallaaaa I had a date just like that.
Another type of example..
Hey some friends and I are going to go bowling, it should be alot of fun, you should come with us if you'd like..
Trust me buy you making the suggestion she's going to know that you like her.. but she's not put on the spot.. it's so much easier for a woman to say yes when they are not put on the spot... And if she says no she can't or she's busy or whatever wouldn't be a rejection to you personally but just to the offer of an outing with a group of people.
You see.. it's all about eliminating the need for rejection to be felt by anyone and approaching it from a level that both people can remain comfortable..
I found that this worked well for me.. my confidence was much better this way.. the girls like that you have the confidence not to need an answer immediately...
In a way I agree with @cesare_undici. I think it isn't about the numbers but how healthy you are. I said 30 days because I think at the very least for someone to be healed they need to make it 30 days but I think it's likely it's even longer than that. I shouldn't put a number on it since it varies from person to person.
Something I would hear often when I would listen to preachers preach on dating was that 2 become 1 but 2 halves don't become 1. I hated hearing that and ignored it and as a broken person got into a relationship. At times the relationship was horrible because we were both broken people looking to each other to fix our brokenness. Needless to say, the relationship ended and not in a nice way.
I would also say you should never do NoFap for a woman. That's one mistake I made with my ex. When I was with her I went on my longest streak ever but eventually relapsed. I would actually relapse after we had a fight or she said something that upset me. It was my ridiculous way of getting back at her. Ultimately I was hurting myself rather than her. Because I hadn't beaten PMO I slipped back into using it again, it got so bad that I would much rather PMO than spend time with her.
I would also add that at your age I don't think you should be dating. I mean of course if its nothing serious and your just going out and have no plans of committing to each other then that's ok, but I would discourage you from having a serious relationship with a girl right now. Divorce rates are down because people are getting married when they're older and when you're older you know what you want in life. I think the ages of 17-25 should be time spent educating one's self and working. When I say educating I don't just mean going to school (although that's a part of it), but also reading a range of books, meeting a variety of people, exposing yourself to different beliefs. Be a listener and a learner... Thinking about it working contributes to your learning. Educating yourself will expand your mind and develop you as a person.
When I say not committing, I don't mean having uncommitted sex. What I mean is going out with girls and learning how women think. I guess dating is the wrong term, maybe saying becoming friends with girls is better. Maybe instead of getting into a relationship with this girl, it would be better to be friends with her. Really being friends with girls could be a part of educating yourself as well. To some guys women are strange but that's probably because they've never tried to learn from a woman.
Really it's up to you but I look back at who I was at your age and who I am now... I've changed so much. I'm glad I never got married in my teens or twenties. Looking back now being married to the younger me would have been a nightmare.
I like this
I also agree with the 2 whole people make 1 whole relationship, it just sets you up better and really makes a big difference. Honestly we must remember that the Bible talks about being single also as a gift, so explore that, what does that mean. If you are not experiencing it as a gift then you are hungry for relationship and if you're hungry for relationship you'll eat any garbage. I'm not saying this girl is garbage at all. I am just saying that taking time for yourself and working on yourself has never been regretted by anyone, because they always end up finding someone.
So just keep on working at yourself and the next thing you know many amazing girls would love to have you.
If she loses interest in you then that's fine, I mean if she loses interest that fast then the same thing will happen in the relationship. So if she's the real deal, she'll stick around
And if it isn't? Where will your peace come from? Where does your hope rest?
But the Bible says "A cord of three strands is not quickly broken." - who is the third person in the relationship?
Remember brother, you are not asking her to marry you. Conceptualize it in your mind as just asking her if she would be open to getting to know each other better. Because this is all you are really doing. You don't know if you will like her, you don't know what she is looking for. All you know is that you would like to find out.
I hope that framing it this way will help cool your nerves, and remember, anxiety and stress are simply reminders that you are holding onto something you should be placing at the feet of Jesus.
Philippians 4:6. We don't have to be anxious when we can freely talk with God about our needs.
You will be in my prayers
Alright, I thank everyone for being here to respond and I still have a question. Let's say that I do what until I reach some specific landmark whatever it may be. What's to say that I don't get scared again? I know myself well enough to know that once I hit that landmark I'll just find something else to keep myself from moving forward. I and many other young men would just keep putting it off more and more because I've just got to make sure that their is nothing left to fix. I'll never fully fix myself. I am just a sinner with works that are like dirty rags to God, a man who was dead in sin who earned nothing in his life without God giving it to me. If it wasn't for God himself being nailed to a cross I would be a damned soul. At what point should I go for it and when should I choose to put it off to keep trying to fix myself.
Second, lets say that I do manage to reach that goal, and I ask a girl out and by some fire from heaven miracle she decides to say yes. I'm doing pretty well with nofap but all the sudden I relapse. Oh no I have to stop seeing her because I have to fix myself. What then?
Absolutely none of what I just said is trying to be some sort of gotcha question. I ask these questions because I have no idea what to do.
I am getting married in 4 days to the woman of my dreams. Throughout our relationship I have been masturbating and there have even been times when I have used porn and Psub. I could not respect myself while this was happening. I didn't want this for her and I didn't want this to be a part of her life. So I decided that I needed to be free of masturbation and porn for at least 6 months before I would allow myself to propose.
As you can see my counter is at 1 day. If I had stuck to that decision we would still be un-engaged if I had made that a condition of me dating her we would never have been dating and we have missed out on so much development and growth together. But this is not why I changed my mind. Relationships and marriage are not about being perfect, you don't need to be a fully functioning person with no sin in your life to pursue a godly woman. If that was the requirement then no one would be in relationships or marriage. Relationships and marriage are about working together, forgiving, love, growing etc. think of Gods example to us, did god wait until we were good enough for him? Did he say to us that we needed to be 30 days, 60 days, 90 days sin free before we could come to him? No, he sent his son to us while we were still drenched in our sin.
Yes, in an ideal world you would be free of PMO's influence in your life. But 30,60,90,1000 days are simply arbitrary. You will always be at risk of sinning. It might not be this particular sin but you will sin and your sin will effect your spouse/girlfriend for you are not Jesus. For this reason I recommend that you do not make an arbitrary time period the prerequisite to pursuing a godly Woman. Instead I recommend that you make the following your prerequisites: taking this issue seriously, seeking outside help from your church/pastor, getting a good mentor who you can talk about your PMO to (from church), get counselling, acknowledging that eventually you will need to discuss and be open about your struggles with this young women if things progress, and acknowledge that everything you do will effect her and those around you.
You don't need to do all of these before asking her, ask if you can get to know her better the next time you see her, you don't know if she will say yes and you don't know her well enough to know you want to pursue a serious relationship yet so it is unwise to tie your healing in this area to her at this stage. Separate your healing and growth from her, she can provide a reason to improve but if she is your only one, then you are very likely to relapse hard if she rejects you. Your main reason for growth must come from your love of Jesus and the knowledge that this behavior will harm you for as long as you allow it purchase in your life.
My soon to be wife taught me that it is not about your sin but about identifying it as what it is, bringing it into the light and dealing with it.
I hope this helps, you are in my prayers
ya know, I just relapsed this morning in bed. No porn whatsoever, just me and my thoughts in bed without the will to get up and move. I've noticed something as i go through my reboots. Every single women I look at is an absolute 10/10. I give them a glance and it gets infinitely harder to speak because they all just blow me away with how amazing they are. God spent EXTRA time when he made women and I am absolutely sure of that. This girl that I'm worrying about, maybe she is just some other girl out of a million others, but I have no idea. I crave relationship, I crave to be with someone, and I crave femininity in my life because it is one of the most beautiful things in the world to witness. I have absolutely no clue when I'll finally grow the pair necessary to say something to a woman I find attractive. I have to just keep trying I guess. Keep recovering my shattered view of women and what they think of sex after my years of porn. I know full well that I'm not deserving of a woman. I'm really not deserving of anything. I think David333 has something special with what sounds like a saint of a woman(I wish you the best). God bless all of you who have figured it out and have that special woman in your life that you would one day marry. I will keep trying and feel free to keep posting here because I will try and keep this forum living until I do manage to figure it out.
I am blessed to have all of you praying for me and advising me.
Have you ever thought that perhaps since you have been through this and you have seen the light that p*** is terrible and that surely God is so pleased with you for realizing and denouncing pornography and making real attempts at changing yourself and repenting for your sin that you are deserving of reward and that the next woman he may place in your life is a woman that will be happy that by no matter what means you discovered it that you have discovered the horrors of it and that she may be comforted to be with someone who understands and Promises not to let it be a factor or an influence or a destructive measure in a new relationship.... And that it might actually become one of your strongest strengths. That you may take what the devil tried to place on you to capture you and trap you and possess you and turn it right around against him and show him that even his worst attempt at corrupting you has done nothing but turn you even stronger to the Lord seeking help to be a better man who understands women and have to love them better than even most men do and make you even more deserving then you know...
Friend, I am deserving of only one thing. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord(Rom 6:23). Under no circumstances will I ever be deserving of a woman in my life. This is a hard saying for me to truly except because I truly desire to have a women who I can grow a family with and love to pieces. but I did not EARN it in the strictest sense because you do not EARN other human beings. Its only by God's grace that I could ever be blessed with a beautiful, Godly, caring, and smart women to spend my life with. It's only because I am a new creation in Christ that I can step up and even approach a women that I am interested in. Thanks for sharing friend. I am not depressed, and I would not say that I'm just beating myself up because "oh poor pitiful me". I say it to put into perspective of where I stand without the merits of Christ.
IDK. All I would say is take a look at the SO journals and you'll see women who have mental breakdowns over their SO PMO. I guess the question is where are you right now? How are you mentally? Are able to stay present or are you constantly thinking about the past and present? Are you happy and content with who you are?
How would you react if you were in a relationship and your gf was unfairly mad at you? Even if she was right in her anger would you feel sorry for yourself and look at porn for comfort? Will you relapse so you can get back at her?
I can relate because I've felt this way in the past but in all honesty this it's not helpful. It's an obsession and it's unhealthy. This kind of thinking needs to stop before you get in a relationship. Women aren't gods, they're just flawed human beings.