Yes, you are wrong. As a wife, I've never expected my husband to "read my mind." I have tried in every way possible to communicate openly and honestly with him about everything, but PA's are closed off.
Hello there,
Am I to assume you're the wife on an addict by saying this, or was this meant to be hypothetical? In any case, I've noticed from my own personal observations that a woman, when challenging something being said, they'll come up with one notable exception (usually themselves) to dismiss any said claim. "I'm not like that, and therefore you are wrong," or "I'm not like that, and therefore the claim is untrue." That would be fine if not for the fact that, in general discord regarding gender relations in today's zeitgeist, women are often propped up as blameless, while all the blame is based on the man. (Jordan Peterson:
They're right, you're wrong!) Even modern entertainment reflects this set of values, so while I don't know the in's and out's of your married life, and given our current cultural attitudes, I'll just have to retain a degree of skepticism.
They're unable to openly communicate because of the addiction.
I disagree for two reasons. 1) They're unable to communicate openly because viewing porn (despite the raunchiness of modern entertainment) is heavily stigmatized, especially for men (it carries the implication that he's unbale to get "the real thing"). 2) PA's
can communicate their problem: that's what this website is all about. It's possible to speak up once there's no fear of stigma or being ostracized involved, and there's support and understanding from people willing to listen and provide solutions. Sadly, many in-person relationships aren't like that in the modern world, or at least in the West. I've known people who've taken their own lives, and I've opened up myself about problems I'm having to others: People will avoid you, gossip about you, and treat you like a pariah, and that can include one's own spouse as well. Unfortunately, that's western culture for you; even your so-called "friends"will tell you to go see a therapist when you're feeling down, proving that they're aren't really your friends, or don't understand what true friendship really entails (I believe the term is "fairweather friend"). That goes beyond marriage and is largely a cultural problem.
Besides, it seems to me like you're slightly contradicting yourself. Didn't you show in an earlier post on this thread that some significant other's can also fail to communicate their thoughts clearly to a partner?
I think there are times when the SO's intention isn't to "test" their partner even though the partner interprets it that way, but what they're actually doing is safety-seeking. When someone is suffering from betrayal trauma, they will often do things to feel safe without even realizing it's what they're doing, especially when triggered.
So a significant other can also fail to communicate his/her feelings openly, even if supposedly justified by way of "betrayal trauma." Given that you gave three whole paragrahs addressing this claim, that sort of makes me doubt what you said to me afterwards:
I know I'm not the only wife around here who has given their husband more support than we ever knew possible, and if there's anyone getting shorted, it isn't the addict.
If wives are giving so much support on one hand, and nonverbally "testing" mean (which you argued was sometimes justified in your previous comment) then you can see why I exercise a bit of skepticism when you say that wives in general give their husbands so much support. Yet as I said in my comment, genered issues these days are sort of a one-way street; the woman is perfectly justified in "testing" her husband (even when he's getting therapeutic help, as the original poster admitted), but it's wrong that he go behind her back with P.M.O? Two wrongs don't make a right. This behaviour you described should ALSO be confronted and openly dealt with, because untreated traumas can destroy a marriage. They should be called out and treated, not justified in one sex as opposed to the other.
On that note, you then said:
A married man who wants to change has to do the work himself. He has to do his own recovery work, and he has to do repair work for the marriage. The SO has to do their own work to heal from the betrayal trauma while being supportive to their addict partner. When an SO withdraws, it's because they have been deeply hurt by their partner, and they've realized their partner is unsafe. It's not because they're being manipulative . If you think anyone is immature and abusive, try living with someone deep in a P addiction for awhile. You'll know the difference then.
With all due respect, I hope you don't plan on becoming a first responder with this attitude.
What's the point of being married if one partner is forced to "battle it alone" while the other withdraws? I used gender-neutral language in the last sentence, because I know you would not be saying all of this if the genders were reversed. You don't really have a marriage anymore if one partner says to the other "Figure it out yourself!" when the latter has a problem. Again, you contradict yourself:First you claim that you and a myriad of other wives have done so much, but your attitude here is that that man must figure everything out for himself? What's the point of being married then, if one partner will withdraw at the first sign of trouble, only for you to justify it when it happens (as I showed above)?
My father told me the story of a woman who just got over an addiction to painkillers, which her doctor prescibed to her after a surgery (My father was a pharmacist). Her family didn't nonchalantly tell her to "figure it out for herself," otherwise she sould have overdosed on these highly addictive opiods and possibly died. That's why I said modern relationships have become a one-way street. A man fix the marriage while the wife is along for the ride? No relationship this lop-sided has any hope of surviving.
You kind of summed that up for me, actually:
This shows that you also have little understanding of P addiction, too. When someone is addicted to P, it is not because his wife isn't satisfying him. Most of the time, PA's had the addiction long before they even knew their wives, but even if they didn't, the addiction is never caused by the wife or what she does or doesn't do.
I suggestif you haven't already to browse through the subreddit "
Dead Bedrooms." Many women there admit to neglecting their husbands on a regular basis, and even brag about doing so at times. When you say "But even if they didn't..." You once again proved my point: According to our modern cultural zeitgeist, women/wives are never responsible, nor do they have to take responsibility, even in cases where p.m.o came into the picture after the fact. In modern Western culture, to insinuate or flat out state that a woman carries some degree of responsibility (regarding any choice) is immediately regarded as sexism; it's either men to be blamed, or society as a whole.
I've spoken to men on this forum (via the private messages) who claim that their wives refuse them most of/all the time; what the men themselves are saying this (but I must be lying, because PA's are closed off).
It isn't about sex at all. It's about the inability to deal with difficult emotions and the fact they've chosen an unhealthy way to cope with that. No wife can ever have enough sex with their husband to fix a PA.
I'm actually glad you said this, because I actually agree. You shouldn't make excuses for one bad behaviour in order to disparage another; the best way for married partners to succeed in overcoming addiction is to identify behaviours that can harm or sabatoge them, while working together (or through professional help) to overcome it. Betrayed partners may act on unconscious triggers just as much as PA's do, but taking one side against the other won't help fix anything.
Also, saying that married addicts are selfish and only think about themselves is a rather self-unaware thing to say, considering that
a married man created this thread (one who is going to therapy), and you're a moderator on Nofap. There are tons of married men trying to fight for their marriages and save their families; to knock their efforts while moderating their threads and interactions was a slap in their faces.
Still, while we clearly have our disagreements, I do I agree with one thing you said: I do agree that no amount of sex can fix a PA; in fact, today I learned about the chaser effect.
