Women, do you ever test your partner?

[Warfman]

I agree with this as well. Western culture has turned modern-day women into "sacred cows," where men have to bear the brunt of failed relationships, even when he did everything he knew to do right. Sadly, such men receive no sympathy or consideration. I come from a generation/culture of rampant narcissism, smartphone/social media addiction, bathroom/gym selfies, etc. In my generation, marriages almost never happen, but hook-up culture (for those who have that option), single motherhood and the normalizing of innumerable degeneracies are treated not only as normal, but as a woman's right/female empowerment.

I'm not without blame, and often, I'm more to blame. I wrestled with this constantly, always validating positions and stances based on this "competition" within the relationship. It was a major fuel for my addiction. My wife does it too, often more than I, and in a way some of this back and forth almost resembles that. It wasn't until I realized that I'm accountable for myself, and my wife is accountable for herself, that I changed my view and started working on myself regardless of any "fault" of my wife or unwillingness she showed to change. This is a challenge, but it's also a very healing experience.

I think the solution to this issue to find peace and happiness in a marriage can be found when both partners take self accountability, work on themselves, offer grace and forgiveness, love, serve one another, REMOVE addiction, heal resentment, communicate feelings without judgment, offer understanding, etc. I think when we are able to do this in a marriage, it turns into a "team" mentality, where we work together in life to pursue meaning and fulfillment. Rather than use each other for our own reasons. Part of that is fulfilling sexual desires, but it also is quality time, caring for the other person when they are feeling ill, listening when they are stressed, holding 20 shopping bags at the mall while she goes and gets "one more thing", putting the baby to sleep so the other partner can rest, fill in the blank.

Without a baseline like that issues are going to come up. And in a lot of ways that's what @hope4healing and @Psalm27:1my light are saying you can't have any of this with a partner addicted to PMO. Period the end.

 

[Kn0wbie]

I relate with much of this friend.

It hurts to be shut out, especially when putting in lots of effort.

Me too!

 

[GameChanger007]

Ok that’s a little different. My husband can be very needy and co dependent and I am neither of those. So, if he’s too clingy I do get to a place where I need space. What he has a hard time with is regulating ( could this be you?). By that I mean , he will get involved with something and be oblivious to everything else. He won’t pick up that our son wants to talk or show him something or he won’t hear our daughter ask a question. Giving space to someone and not recognizing when to connect and when to disengage can get frustrating for both partners. This is where I have found communications to be vital. One of my requests was that my husband straight up ask for sex. I told him if he does not verbally ask me then I’m not going to play. I have my reasons for this. She may be swinging between wanting all your attention to despising any attention. That’s not uncommon when dealing with a partners pmo addiction.

I struggle with P addiction and my wife knows. we both had christian therapists helping us thru it.
my wife told me she is afraid of asking me, how I am doing. is there any advice from you, how to help her not beeing afraid of asking?

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

I struggle with P addiction and my wife knows. we both had christian therapists helping us thru it.
my wife told me she is afraid of asking me, how I am doing. is there any advice from you, how to help her not beeing afraid of asking?

First you need to know why she’s afraid. So you will have to ask her. Use the feelings wheel( u can google it) this really helps a lot with communicating what’s going on. Is she afraid of how you react? Ie defensive, angry, shut down? Or is she afraid of what she will hear? That you’ve relapsed? Once you know why then you can move forwards with trying to alleviate those fears.

 

[GameChanger007]

well, our way of Communication is many time non verbal. she doesn't like me to tell her what to do. so sometimes we talked and I brought up something and the conversation ended her running out of the room, crying and leaving me alone with no answer. I learned sometimes not to say anything is better rather then having my wife cry.
I think she wants me to start to talk about how I do, but I don't really know what to say or how to start the conversation.

 

[Deleted Account]

well, our way of Communication is many time non verbal. she doesn't like me to tell her what to do. so sometimes we talked and I brought up something and the conversation ended her running out of the room, crying and leaving me alone with no answer. I learned sometimes not to say anything is better rather then having my wife cry.
I think she wants me to start to talk about how I do, but I don't really know what to say or how to start the conversation.

Does she know you struggle with this stuff? That you use Nofap?

 

[GameChanger007]

Does she know you struggle with this stuff? That you use Nofap?

yes she does

 

[Real Jerry Seinfeld]

A couple things here, since you pointed out my comment and then felt the need to quote Corinthians and then imply men wouldn’t need porn if the wife met his needs. St. Paul did indeed say a man should not deprive his wife, and vice versa. My husband isn’t just a porn addict ( using porn decades before he met me, but please tell me how I contributed to this) he is IA which about 30% of sex addicts are. So, we married 31 years ago, got married on Saturday and by Tuesday my husband was telling me no on our honeymoon. I’m 23, waited to have sex for marriage and my husband is telling me no! 3-6 months into the marriage I’m begging him to go to marriage counseling because something was wrong. No. He said he will never go to counseling. So I buy books, I talk to my pastor, I pray harder, I beg him to talk. No. I sign up for couples Bible studies, couples retreats, I beg, I scream, I cry,I try talking logically , rationally ( and he tells me I’m a nympho and something is wrong with me) I workout, lose weight, , buy lingerie, and he just ignores and walks away. For years. But you know the church says pray harder, initiate sex, be there for him. So I am. In spite of the fact that he was not ever there for me, not once. 5 years in and I discover his dirty little secret sex life. Here he was telling me he’s too tired, he’s got a headache, he doesn’t have time to have sex with me but he’s jacking off daily to porn. All while lying to me . You have no idea. I stopped asking at 25 years in because not one single time had he said yes. Not once., I laugh at the men who cry that sometimes their wife says no and how much it hurts. Try never getting a yes, for decades. This is not uncommonly for porn addicts. They prefer porn over sex with their spouse and they deprive their spouse!
Now to the needing space part. You learn to do life alone when married to an addict. They are not there for you in spite of them thinking they are great husbands and fathers. So you learn to quit asking them to be. My husband just recently retired. This has made him a bit clingy because he has so much time and no hobbies.So we are literally together 24/7. My needing space occasionally is not abusive in fact it’s healthy. Healthy people do not do every single thing together. I think my taking an hour or two a week isn’t going to kill him or leave him despondent . He’s the co dependent he needs to learn to thrive on his own and know he will be fine without me. And you know what? He is, he is learning to make friends, to learn new hobbies and take chances, learning to put himself out there without me.
Sex Addicts have some of the most supportive partners in the world. You tell me how much lying, cheating, gaslighting, abusive behavior you would put up with before you left? How many sti’s before you’d file for divorce? But yes, my needing space is the problem , or my testing for safety is the problem , not the lying, cheating, abuse or gas lighting that precipitated the “ testing”.

You know I've read some of your comments in here before and felt you were a little cynical but that is a harrowing story. Did you ever consider annulment? I just can't imagine continuing under those conditions, that's absolutely brutal. I presume you have kids or why else would you.

I have a history of being very needy and codependent. I’ve been working on “giving her space” but she seems like she tries to pick fights over nothing or accuse me of playing games when I don’t initiate sex but she’s told me she doesn’t like being asked to do stuff because she doesn’t like having to say no.
So if I give her space, she will be upset that I’m ignoring everyone. But if I try to get her to give me attention, she say I’m hovering. If I straight up ask for attention or sex she will do it but be resentful because she didn’t want to.
I’ve found it best yo just be myself and do my thing and let her think what she wants. My therapist thinks this is best also.
In any case, i just wondered if other women could give me insight into this . Especially those that have dealt with broken trust.

Your instinct on this is correct. It's not a test for anything specific, it's just to elicit some kind of reaction. Don't acknowledge the premise of the argument if it's invalid. If she picks a fight, refuse to get angry. If she sulks, act as though you haven't noticed. If she crosses any major boundaries, don't engage with whatever she's upset about, just chastise the behaviour. Don't feed negative plays for attention and they'll resort to positive plays instead.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

You know I've read some of your comments in here before and felt you were a little cynical but that is a harrowing story. Did you ever consider annulment? I just can't imagine continuing under those conditions, that's absolutely brutal. I presume you have kids or why else would you.


Your instinct on this is correct. It's not a test for anything specific, it's just to elicit some kind of reaction. Don't acknowledge the premise of the argument if it's invalid. If she picks a fight, refuse to get angry. If she sulks, act as though you haven't noticed. If she crosses any major boundaries, don't engage with whatever she's upset about, just chastise the behaviour. Don't feed negative plays for attention and they'll resort to positive plays instead.

I never considered annulment because we were married and it was consummated ( as little as that was). I did start divorce papers on first dday. But, he begged, he pleaded, he cried, he said how much he loved me, blah, blah, blah….. I fell for it. I wanted my marriage to work. It was sacred to me. So he agreed and went to weekly marriage counseling for 3 years. I got pregnant on the pill. Things were so much better and he did everything the counselor said to rebuild trust. Everything. I trusted him 100%. Then 10 years married, pregnant with our second child I caught him again. I refused to divorce because I was not going to lose out on 50% of my children’s life and do the every other weekend and holidays. Hell no. So we were basically like roommates. I decided I’d divorce him once my youngest graduated. I saved ever penny I could and planned. He thought we had a great marriage. He had no idea. Even though I repeatedly told him I wasn’t happy and didn’t like him. So, yeah, I’m cynical, unfortunately. He got into recovery 4.5 years ago. 2.5 years before my youngest graduated. He is completely different. Everything about him and my life changed. Everything. One good thing, I grew closer to God, I have a great relationship with all of my kids, and because I saved so much money we both retired early, me at 40 and him at 52. I won’t ever go back to living with an active addict. Never. Life is so much better, indescribable how much better for both of us.

 

[Real Jerry Seinfeld]

I never considered annulment because we were married and it was consummated ( as little as that was). I did start divorce papers on first dday. But, he begged, he pleaded, he cried, he said how much he loved me, blah, blah, blah….. I fell for it. I wanted my marriage to work. It was sacred to me. So he agreed and went to weekly marriage counseling for 3 years. I got pregnant on the pill. Things were so much better and he did everything the counselor said to rebuild trust. Everything. I trusted him 100%. Then 10 years married, pregnant with our second child I caught him again. I refused to divorce because I was not going to lose out on 50% of my children’s life and do the every other weekend and holidays. Hell no. So we were basically like roommates. I decided I’d divorce him once my youngest graduated. I saved ever penny I could and planned. He thought we had a great marriage. He had no idea. Even though I repeatedly told him I wasn’t happy and didn’t like him. So, yeah, I’m cynical, unfortunately. He got into recovery 4.5 years ago. 2.5 years before my youngest graduated. He is completely different. Everything about him and my life changed. Everything. One good thing, I grew closer to God, I have a great relationship with all of my kids, and because I saved so much money we both retired early, me at 40 and him at 52. I won’t ever go back to living with an active addict. Never. Life is so much better, indescribable how much better for both of us.

That's horrible that your marriage was so disappointing for so long, you must have been so young as well. It's nice it has a happy ending though. I always thought my parents would separate when we left home but for whatever reason they actually grew closer after we'd all flown the nest. I think it made them actually confront their relationship with each other as a priority rather than focusing on us or their work.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

That's horrible that your marriage was so disappointing for so long, you must have been so young as well. It's nice it has a happy ending though. I always thought my parents would separate when we left home but for whatever reason they actually grew closer after we'd all flown the nest. I think it made them actually confront their relationship with each other as a priority rather than focusing on us or their work.

We had/have a very good friendship. I married my best friend. We dated 5 years, without having sex. So we spent a lot of time getting to know each other. Once we had sex, because he is IA, he could not handle the intimacy. Hence why everything changed on our honeymoon. He’s a great friend, a terrible husband and lover. That made it difficult as well. My csat, made the comment one session, she said “ you guys have a better relationship than many couples I see who aren’t even dealing with addiction”. When we sat the kids down and told them about dads addiction, my plans to leave, and what was going to change, they were stunned. All three had no idea. So, as terrible as it was for me, because I detached when the kids were babies, there wasn’t raging fights, or crying bouts or general upheaval. The most damaging thing about it was he worked a lot and just wasn’t present. I forgave him 20 years ago. I realized I couldn’t live with the hurt, the anger, the bitterness and resentment. Now, that doesn’t mean it all doesn’t come up at times. It does. But I have to work through it and he has to understand and be willing to allow it without anger, defensiveness or shutting down. If he goes back to those old behaviors, I cannot work through mine. If that happens, my original plan to leave will be what happens. I cannot continue to be dragged down the road of filth and of destruction with him. He makes that choice.

 

[GameChanger007]

That's horrible that your marriage was so disappointing for so long, you must have been so young as well. It's nice it has a happy ending though. I always thought my parents would separate when we left home but for whatever reason they actually grew closer after we'd all flown the nest. I think it made them actually confront their relationship with each other as a priority rather than focusing on us or their work.

I never considered annulment because we were married and it was consummated ( as little as that was). I did start divorce papers on first dday. But, he begged, he pleaded, he cried, he said how much he loved me, blah, blah, blah….. I fell for it. I wanted my marriage to work. It was sacred to me. So he agreed and went to weekly marriage counseling for 3 years. I got pregnant on the pill. Things were so much better and he did everything the counselor said to rebuild trust. Everything. I trusted him 100%. Then 10 years married, pregnant with our second child I caught him again. I refused to divorce because I was not going to lose out on 50% of my children’s life and do the every other weekend and holidays. Hell no. So we were basically like roommates. I decided I’d divorce him once my youngest graduated. I saved ever penny I could and planned. He thought we had a great marriage. He had no idea. Even though I repeatedly told him I wasn’t happy and didn’t like him. So, yeah, I’m cynical, unfortunately. He got into recovery 4.5 years ago. 2.5 years before my youngest graduated. He is completely different. Everything about him and my life changed. Everything. One good thing, I grew closer to God, I have a great relationship with all of my kids, and because I saved so much money we both retired early, me at 40 and him at 52. I won’t ever go back to living with an active addict. Never. Life is so much better, indescribable how much better for both of us.

wow, great story and very happy to read that he was able to get out and is set free now. very encouraging ending...

 

[Real Jerry Seinfeld]

We had/have a very good friendship. I married my best friend. We dated 5 years, without having sex. So we spent a lot of time getting to know each other. Once we had sex, because he is IA, he could not handle the intimacy. Hence why everything changed on our honeymoon. He’s a great friend, a terrible husband and lover. That made it difficult as well. My csat, made the comment one session, she said “ you guys have a better relationship than many couples I see who aren’t even dealing with addiction”. When we sat the kids down and told them about dads addiction, my plans to leave, and what was going to change, they were stunned. All three had no idea. So, as terrible as it was for me, because I detached when the kids were babies, there wasn’t raging fights, or crying bouts or general upheaval. The most damaging thing about it was he worked a lot and just wasn’t present. I forgave him 20 years ago. I realized I couldn’t live with the hurt, the anger, the bitterness and resentment. Now, that doesn’t mean it all doesn’t come up at times. It does. But I have to work through it and he has to understand and be willing to allow it without anger, defensiveness or shutting down. If he goes back to those old behaviors, I cannot work through mine. If that happens, my original plan to leave will be what happens. I cannot continue to be dragged down the road of filth and of destruction with him. He makes that choice.

Thanks for sharing that with me. Other than the happy ending between you and your husband, it's great that you're taking the time to share your experience here with everyone. It's good to hear a real success story, however long in the making.