Women have low self esteem (or spouse) so it's our issue-thoughts?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Jbird22, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. Jbird22

    Jbird22 Fapstronaut

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    So this has become a really big topic on my mind and something I feel very strongly about-I'd love to hear your thoughts and I don't mean this to sound defensive at all, I really don't but can probably read that way. I feel like this forum has really helped me come to this and it's something I can really take away something positive, I'm grateful for that.

    When I first found out my husband of ten years was doing this behind my back and he first lied to my face (honesty was what he has always held as his top priority for himself and anyone in his life, isn't that ironic now.) and then once he had no way out he admitted it and said it was all my fault...which I believed for a little bit because the behavior was so unlike him, it must have been me right? I desperately tried to compete to win him back over from the pornstars... but seriously...it was a losing battle, he's the only person I've ever been with (once we were married), being "one" with someone is all that I needed in my life so I waited until I found that person, that bond is extremely sacred to me but also doesn't give me the experience to compete against paid professionals. So after I got past that stage of blame...I realized the man I fell in love with..mainly because of his confidence...was actually a lie, he didn't have any...he actually has very low self esteem...it became so clear. When I brought this up he actually admitted to that...which I found very astonishing. This is the guy that was the captain of everything, MVP of everything..that guy.

    when I stood up for myself and said no more, or I'm done, it wasn't me that had low self esteem- it wasn't because I had low self esteem and was jealous, it's actually because I am a very confident person..so confident that I know I'm enough for any man and I would never in a million years sign on to be with someone that needed anything else to get by. I would have ended it immediately if we had been dating or in any other situation because I'm a confident person... but throw in 10 years and 4 kids in the mix and we have ourselves some issues. It's actually the women who tell themselves it's normal and okay, and that guys need that, that have the low self esteem...it's not because they are confident in themselves so they are okay with the men using other women/porn...it's because they don't think they can compete so they just give up and call it normal.

    Anyway that's just my rant and something I've wanted to share that I have no one else to talk to about..I've come to realize that the stereo type of women having self esteem issues because their men need porn..is definitely not the case but the other way around and a very convenient story that's for sure. Especially for those women with low self esteem... :)

    I'd love your thoughts/prospective on this.
     
  2. Jbird22

    Jbird22 Fapstronaut

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    Also I just quickly want to say I don't mean any disrespect to the people here getting help...your self esteem is already going up, so good job for getting help and being on here :) thanks for being a place where we can talk about these issues...it's been a life savor for me.
     
  3. I think self esteem is partially based on how others view us, but originates from the self. There seems to be a strong connection between the two. Also I believe that we have a self-esteem in a lot areas in our lives. I mean how comfortable we are in a certain situation. For example if you can drive well, your self-esteem behind the wheel is high and you have no problem during parallel parking. But if you're a poor cook, your self-esteem in the kitchen is low because you don't really know what to do. So you can have high self-esteem in one area, and low in another.
    Therefore I believe it's possible, that you and your husband as well have areas in your lives where you are confident, and other areas where...not so much. Is it possible that your husband has low self-esteem as man? Or as a lover? So maybe not everything was a lie, but only in a certain aspect? (Not that it would be any less painful..)

    I think porn can give some sort of false confidence to a man. I mean you imagine having sex with all those girls, and if you have lots of sex you're The Man (or that's the agenda what society pushes for some reasons) so you feel strong and confident. Then you go out and bruise yourself on the brick wall of reality, which shatters your false self-esteem. No wonder guys with porn addiction have low self-esteem when it comes to sex and dating...

    And this is even more complicated because when a guy with pmo addiction and a girl starts to get to know each other, with a relationship and marriage that follows, it's very likely that the guy used pmo all that time. So when he starts to complain about the wife's sex drive or something, the issue is with him, and had been all the time, but he doesn't even know about it. Because he has a sex-engine that is in overdrive and works at a much higher volume than intended or should, or he might have already desensitized himself with strong grip, or he might have some levels of PIED, or some weird taste because of porn, let alone some porn induced same-sex attraction and the list goes on.

    No women can compete with that. The guy is dissatisfied, his wife is dissatisfied, their sex life doesn't work, their love falls apart without sex and they decide they don't love each other any more and divorce, without ever knowing what was the problem in the first place. It's a sad story, really.
     
  4. Jbird22

    Jbird22 Fapstronaut

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    So so true...great points. It is crazy how much something a lot of people think is no big deal, ruins lives and marriages behind the scenes...a study came out recently saying that more sex didn't actually make people happier but the opposite and the scientists were shocked by the outcome-my first thought was yeah because they didn't factor the porn standard into it-the more sex wasn't as good as porn so it probably made them less happy. It's really sad. I definitely fear for my son, only 6 now :(
     
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  5. DarkHorse93

    DarkHorse93 Fapstronaut

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    I'd give him a second chance but he definitely needs to change. It's his responsibility to take hold of his problem, quit what he's doing, and redirect his sexual energies towards you - not towards something else. He needs to realize that what he's doing effects not only the two of you, but also the family you've built together.
     
  6. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    I agree completely. Women (and men!) with low self esteem settle for all kinds of bullshit from their significant others.
     
  7. BC25

    BC25 New Fapstronaut

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    I'm pretty new here but for what it is worth, I can see how P use is diminishing my boyfriend's self esteem. I can see how ashamed, frustrated and angry he is from the grip P has over him. On the flip side, I also know how unattractive, un-desirable and un-confident I feel from his use. It sure is toxic...
    For us, the plus is that his frustration and anger over the grip it has on him is actually fuelling him to change :)
     
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  8. mybillofrights

    mybillofrights Fapstronaut

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    I had the same experience with my ex. I will say this up front. I am a beautiful woman and know that any man would be thrilled to be with me. I'm not saying this to be conceited. It's just a fact. I come from a good family, am well traveled and well educated. I was never longing for a boyfriend during my youth, ever.

    I went on to marry the man I loved. He was brilliant. That's what I adored about him. He was just as intelligent as I was and that was a huge turn on. I fell head over heels in love with him and imagined us spending the rest of our lives together. I even dreamt of what it would be like when we were older and they were happy thoughts.

    When I found out I wasn't enough for my ex after only a few years of marriage it just went downhill. We tried counseling at my demand and he just wasn't willing to change. He'd routinely lie to me and if I was gone from the home for even 15 minutes, he'd run into the office and start with porn. Every aspect of our lives was in serious trouble. I was more than willing to sexually explore with him and he's the only man I ever wanted to do that with but he was choosing porn. And it IS a choice. I think many men use the 'brain addiction' as an excuse to continue, to tell their wives that it's not THEM but their brain and it turns into a three ring circus with him blaming you and then saying he can't help it. It then becomes the 'disease in the home' when in reality it's a conscious choice of one human being to violate another.

    Sometimes you have thoughts about things but your conscience guides you to not do them. Men do have self control, they'll just use every excuse and tactic in the book to not use it. It's astounding to me that men in committed relationships are having such problems. They'll say 'I don't get enough sex' as if a woman is just there for that reason and it then becomes something she has to SERVE to him so he doesn't use porn. Porn is then used as a weapon to control the g/f or wife.

    I totally empathize with you on every level. I read the many women on here who are struggling with men who simply aren't choosing to stop. I honestly think it's an intimacy problem with men and a misogyny problem. Porn is sexual violence on demand. This is a massive disrespect to women: the women in the film, the women in that mans life. A screen image doesn't require any intimacy so there's no investment necessary.

    I suppose the choices women have are made pretty simple if their partner is into porn. Either get out while you still can or devote yourself to the 'disease in the home' that never ends. Once that vital component of trust breaks down through his porn use, you truly can't get it back. It's always in the back of your mind that while you're out with the kids he's at home violating other women and you and potentially his own daughters.

    It's the deepest violation of a woman for her male partner to invest in sexual violence. It means she's nothing to him and that his ideas about women are horrible. I don't know of a cure for that.
     
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  9. tiberiansun

    tiberiansun Fapstronaut

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    While I do agree with you that it is a choice, I think you're being quite naive about the nature of addiction.

    Firstly, the initial stage to tackling addiction is to recognize that you are in fact addicted. Many guys out there do not even realize that they are addicted, because they never tried to stop. Those in second stage, who have the realization quickly learn that while, yes, it is a choice, it's anything but like what we normally experience as choices. Did you know that some men have mutilated their own penises in attempts to stop their addiction? And still found that this had no effect on their lust. The reason P and PMO is so addictive to males is that we are incredibly visual creatures, P is free, easily accessible, and there is huge amount of novel content available on the internet. When you're doing it, you feel an incredible buzz, and it's also very easy to conceal that you're doing it (unlike, for example, shooting up on heroin). Its behavior that is highly stigmatized and shameful - this prevents some guys from even consciously accepting they have a problem, let alone try and seek any help to solve it.

    When I first discovered that I had an addiction (it was just before I got married), it shocked to me to my core as I have never had an addiction before and in my mind I denied that addictions really existed. Surely I have a choice, right? It is possible to break this addiction, but it's going to require a lot more than just saying "nope.". What slows most guys down (beyond denial) is the realization of how deep they have to cut at their own behavior. Throw out the laptop. Throw out the smartphone. Do not even look at girls on the street. No movies which sexualize women (most movies do this). No TV which sexualizes women (most TV does this). No newspapers that sexualize women (most newspapers do this). No fantasy.

    I'm not offering an excuse for guys here. We know we screwed up. But we're not irredeemable. By suggesting that P addiction isn't truly an addiction, you don't just belittle the problem, you become part of the problem. Heaping piles of fury, shame, digust onto your SO doesn't help him: if he is early stage addicted it probably will cause him to rationalize and conjure up new ways to conceal the issue from you but - infinitely more tragically - also from himself (tragic, because change MUST come from him). Help yourself, and view this as the sickness that it is, not just because this is the truth but realize that adopting an attitude where you deny this is addiction you make your torment as SO terminal. From this perspective this is no longer a curable psycho-neurological defect, but is a permanent and intrinsic temperament of your partner from which there is no hope!

    Education is the key, not vitriolic judgement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  10. I think you're right. My experience is the same. If you want to quit, you quit, if you don't, then you'll never do it. It's a sad story you shared and it's really a shame that your husband values porn more than his faithfulness to you.

    Matter of fact is, when you have an addiction and you decide to quit, al kinds of crazy stuff will happen in you. But the question is not "what should I do about it?" but "so what?". Sometimes you're horny. Other times anxious. Depressed. Your balls hurt. Stressed out. Angry. Sad. Whatever. So what? These things happen to everyone, it is not uncommon.
    The only way to quit is to decide that you will never touch porn or masturbate ever again, no matter what happens. No excuses and pathetic whining about "oh this is hard" or "...but my neurons in my brain" and "relapse is okay" and "it's a process" or "failure happens". Are you kidding me? Are you serious?

    If you quit PMO that means that there is a time when you PMO for the LAST time. Why delay when that last time occurs?
    I'm sorry guys but there is not a single excuse good enough for a relapse. I didn't relapse in the last...how many day? Lots. Whatever.

    Stay strong!
     
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  11. 8BitsOfStuggling

    8BitsOfStuggling Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for saying it outright. I appreciate this statement a lot, as it is my honest opinion. I see people here relapse all the time, and it makes me wonder if they truly want to quit. They seem to be one-foot in the door to quitting. I struggled to quit and could hardly make it anywhere until I found NoFap, but I decided it was NO MORE. I don't want this to be me, apart of me, defining me, creating shame, or any of the effects that it has. I have been with NoFap for 16 days now, and no relapse. I wont relapse because it simply isn't an option.

    IF... I let myself relapse once during Nofap, the next time will be "justified" and even easier to relapse than the last. Eventually, after awhile, relapses wont be relapses but just habitual.
     
  12. They genuinely do want to be pmo free, but they don't want the process that leads to being pmo free. They value the goal, but do not value the path that leads to that goal. Therefore, all their trials are ultimately futile. Because the path is hard and pretty narrow as well. Now, in order to be PMO free, you have to go through that path, there is no other way, no shortcut or something, and therefore you'll have to deal with everything you come across. It gets ugly sometimes.
    That's a good start, but what I think is more important than how many days you are clean, is the mindset, that a relapse is not an option. Let's put this into perspective. So you decide that enough of PMO, and you quit for good. That means that there is life before your decision, and life after your decision. What happened before happened, but now you have a new life. The old is gone. So -in a sense- it doesn't matter how many days you are clean for, because you don't just want to reach a certain number of days. Yes, you can remember them and celebrate them, but they will not be a goal, but only a consequence of your goal. For instance, you reach 90 days. That's great, but it's not your goal, only a landmark on your way to your goal.

    That's why ultimately I think that it doesn't really matter how many days you have been clean. NoFap means no more fap. Now you can relapse frequently and still have some benefits, that's LessFap, but that's an entirely different thing.

    Exactly. Like you relapse after 14 days. Then, for the second try, you already have a reference. "I can only last about 2 weeks." When next you approach two weeks, your mind will start whispering "you could only last for 2 weeks last time...why do you think you'll last more?" but you keep yourself together and add 2 more days, and relapse at 16. Now you have doubly reinforced your belief that you can only do about two weeks. A new habit is starting to form, and while you'll do better than before, you'll be stuck at the 2 week mark. Not a place where you want to be if you want to quit for good.
     
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  13. 8BitsOfStuggling

    8BitsOfStuggling Fapstronaut

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    I think you would definitely appreciate my recent post HERE, where I actually reiterate a lot of what you say. Thank you for the support. I for one, just not even 10 minutes ago stumbled across a no-no thread on reddit. That being said, I did look for a moment, saw a couple pictures, however, I was able to recognize immediately that I was playing with fire, it was beginning to arouse me, and I closed out. It is about setting up the proper mind-set. With that, you can achieve any of it that you want for your NoFap goals. People need to set what THEY want to achieve, and put themselves in the proper mind set to do it. Just because you tell yourself you want change, doesn't mean you will change, even if you want to. You have to enact the change too.
     
  14. doctor_warren

    doctor_warren Fapstronaut

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    Lots of interesting ideas about relapsing habitually. I think that's the pattern i've fallen into haha :p
     
  15. 8BitsOfStuggling

    8BitsOfStuggling Fapstronaut

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    Sometimes all it takes is recognizing it to kick it though. I don't want people to hurt, I would love to see everyone be successful.
     
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  16. doctor_warren

    doctor_warren Fapstronaut

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    <3
     
  17. DarkHorse93

    DarkHorse93 Fapstronaut

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    Porn is an addiction, and a choice, just like food addicts make the choice but do it because they're addicted. Bad food (like McDonalds) really is the best analogy for porn addiction because they both take something natural that we're constantly coming across, and turn it into something unhealthy. Honestly most people don't have the willpower to quit anything. If you marry an alcoholic or someone that over-eats, the most you can do is accept them for who they are or move on. Rarely do they change. NoFap is for the rare individuals who make the commitment to go full turkey and make a better life for themselves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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