Women Supporting Women, why can’t we?

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by GG2002, Dec 20, 2017.

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  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I was on another forum on NoFap and a fellow SO (female) started a “discussion” with me about how horrible it was to leave a husband that was trying to stop PMO if he had ED. That it’s wrong to leave due to PIED, and then comparisons to a man that had surgery and then had ED (which is in my mind totally different). I respect all opinions, in fact I thrive on hearing different opinions because I feel like I can learn from them. And while I don’t agree with an opinion, I still respect it. By respecting it that to me means you just say okay, I know you feel that way and I am okay with it, I don’t, but you certainly have a right to and I am not going to pass judgment on you for doing that. And then often saying tell me why you think or feel that way. I want to understand.

    I am not going to say to an SO “you are wrong for leaving” or “you are wrong for staying.” It is not my place to tell anyone that something they did is wrong, short of a crime. But relationships, beliefs, religion, addictions all of those things are open to many different moral interpretations. You can both have an opinion and neither of you be wrong. Some people think marriage is for life, no matter what and they are willing to cope and be unhappy because that is their belief, or for their kids, or for whatever reason, that’s okay. But a woman who chooses to leave should not be told she is wrong or made to feel guilty. Its just like being married to any addict. At some point you gotta protect yourself, and that’s okay. Can some people really not recognize that others have validly different opinions on a subject and they are not bad people for holding that opinion? And what does passing judgment someone’s choices saying “you are wrong” do for people? Does it make them feel like they are a morally better person? I am not being facetious here I really don’t understand this concept.

    But it got me thinking about women, and feminism and how women are constantly tearing each other down, rather than learning from each other and building each other up. You have the hard core feminists who look down on any woman who does not go to college or work outside the home. Then the stay at home Mom’s who look down on women who work, as they are not “good moms.” What the heck? And men do not do this. So what is it? Is it competition? Is it insecurity?

    In the workplace too, when a woman gets ahead she does not pull other women up with her. She competes. The man who gets ahead, pulls other men up with him, but the women are still too busy fighting each other to unite. If women united we most certainly could rule the world. And I think part of our struggle for equality in the workplace etc is that we don’t unite, we oppose each. We may not all agree on everything, but we certainly agree on some things? Your thoughts are appreciated, men and women.
     
  2. Read the Beauty Mytth by Naomi Wolf. Talks a lot about this.
     
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  3. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    A good friend of mine had this posted on his fb page this week...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am going to check it out. Thank you.
     
  5. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yes totally.
     
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  6. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    I have experienced some very hurtful judgement here on NoFAP as well.
     
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  7. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am sorry that happened. The only thing I can say is that when someone passes judgment on you it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with their own underlying insecurities.
     
  8. @GG2002 Yep, women tend to attack each other. It's cultural. The only way we can do something about it is to "be the change" --- b/c we only have control over ourselves.

    Me too. Outright criticism for staying in my marriage b/c his porn use accelerated to real life encounters. This is very, very common, and with addicts, there is always more than we know. It's important to realize this b/c we can care for ourselves better if we face reality of living with an addict (active in his addiction or not).

    I've chosen to give my husband a chance to recover, and he's been sober since July 2016. He works his recovery daily. I've set some very strong boundaries to protect myself. I've seen a good deal of growth in him as a man and as a husband.
     
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I think that is so awesome that your husband was able to gain and maintain sobriety for so long. I agree that only we as women can change this. But I guess what I am trying to figure out is why women do this? One of the conclusions I have come to is that they are not as sure about their own decision as they portray. So when they see someone else making a different choice, it irks them because it reinforces their own insecurities. To me a good example of taking out personal insecurities on another person, is how women immediately attack another woman’s looks on social media when she is overweight. Usually those women have weight gain of their own or are worried they will gain weight and so they attack the overweight woman. It has nothing to do with her. Her weight gain in no way effects you, if you don’t want to look turn the channel or close the page.

    So in this sense I see that many women are not sure if they should stay with their husbands or if they should leave. So when faced with another woman that made a different choice, they act out and criticize. If they can make that woman be wrong, then they can push away their own demons. They really are being hypercritical with themselves.

    I think deep down people that are judgmental or claim moral superiority are afraid and the different opinions make them insecure. This reminds me of the saying thou protest too much. If you are so convinced that your opinion is the only opinion why do you feel the need to attack someone else’s opinion so much?
     
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  10. Women seem to do this in all aspects of life --- sniping at the workplace, criticizing other women physically, etc. I don't befriend those types of women. I want nothing to do with that stuff.

    I do need to say NOT ALL women do this. It's a general tendency, though, in our culture. I choose to be the kind of woman who holds other people up.

    YEP - spot on!

    Again, yep.

    Oh, and @GG2002 - My husband's *new* sobriety date came out at our disclosure. He'd been telling me March 2016. He did porn in July 2016.

    The most important thing for me is that I am looking at behavior. Words are great and all, but actions matter. My husband really hit bottom too, so that was a wake-up call.
     
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  11. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Here's the thing, people are wildly different.
    We can't all be "in solidarity" all the time.
    That would mean we all have the same cookie cutter opinions and the fact is we are all cut from wildly different cloths.
    Different experiences, different lives.
    I do agree GG that women should be more supportive.
    It's a shame we always feel so competitive, but I think a large part of that is as men take care of less and less, women feel like we have to handle more and more.
    With that the pressures from society says we have to look the best and be as cut throat as possible "make it in a man's world while wearing high heels" or whatever.
    It's usually passive aggressive.
    Because on top of everything else, we aren't allowed to be blunt.
    Have real opinions or be straightforward.
    Even if it's with the best intentions.
    Other women think this is threatening and can't usually handle it and it provokes strong reactions ( face to face reactions) and then starts a further cycle of more passive aggressive behavior behind each other's backs.
    Like, how are any of us supposed to be friends?
    We aren't talking honestly, we can't have different opinions and we are being bred and raised to compete?
    And now, competition is also with a damn fantasy, not only with real life versus versions of each other... What ever shall we do?
    I think this starts with how we raise our daughters.
     
  12. You can use my name, darling. That's what the @ symbol is for. And YOU replied to ME on that thread, so let's not rewrite history and say that I started a "discussion" with you.

    And to answer your question, the reason some women don't get along and can't support each other's decision is because we are not a hive mind and we don't all have the same views and opinions. In the same way that I have disagreements with men and think some men are downright terrible people, I feel the same about some women. I have no interest in being a part of the "vagina club," especially with hypocritical people like you who make an entire thread talking about me behind my back, while simultaneously preaching how we should support each other and not be catty bitches. Unbelievable to me that you don't see the irony in this. The fact that someone can have that little self-awareness is astounding.

    Hey pot,
    You're super black.
    - Love, Kettle

    @kropo82 remember when you were asking me for examples of why I hate modern feminism, and how feminists are often giant hypocrites? Well, here you go.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2017
  13. I'm sorry to hear that. But let's all remember that this is not a female issue, it's a human issue. I'm sure almost every single guy here could say this same exact thing.
     
  14. Totally agree with this. Yes, including the last part.
     
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  15. Another hilariously ironic thing going down in this thread is how you continue to act like you're the queen of tolerance and love people having different opinions, but yet you got so dang triggered by my different opinion that you had to come make a passive aggressive thread about it to make yourself feel better.

    And why can't women support each other more? Oh, I don't know, maybe because of shit like this. :rolleyes:
     
  16. I do have to thank you, though. I was feeling some urges coming on this afternoon and all this hilarious drama wiped em away pretty dang quick.
     
  17. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    You have some very serious anger issues. I never personally attacked you and your tone and words are negative and not what NoFap is about. You can express an opinion without name calling. You can have a disagreement without being rude. I know how to use the @ sign but I did not make this post about you because it’s not about you. Did you not notice that all I said was that the conversation got me thinking about something else that has nothing to do with you? I am not asking about you personally. If I wanted to talk about you behind your back why would I do it on a forum you have access to? That makes zero sense. There is a way you can disagree with someone and not lash out. You need to tone the anger down.
     
  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I respect your opinion I have said that repeatedly. I respect women who believe it’s wrong to leave and believe it’s wrong to stay, do you not see that? I respect your opinion I just don’t agree with it. That’s okay.
     
  19. Haha omg, seriously? First off, I'm not even mad. This is too funny to be angry over. And secondly, the fact that you STILL fail to see the irony and hypocrisy in the way you are sitting on your high horse and telling me how to behave better and talking about how women should be kinder to each other, after the things you've said to and about me, both here and in the other thread, is just downright hilarious. I'm not an idiot, honey. I can see right through all your passive aggressive language. Not buyin it. You initiated conversation with me on the other thread... you started this thread, passive aggressively talking about me and using me as an example of terrible, intolerant women who don't support other women... And then when I bite back, you act like you're the victim here? Like youre so shocked that someone would be rude to you out of nowhere, completely unprovoked? If you honestly can't see how backwards and insane that is, then I can't help you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2017
  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I agree and I suppose I am more getting at situations we don’t have control over. Like in business or your co workers. We are certainly not all the same but we usually can find some similarities. It’s certainly a problem many authors have tried to address. Although not very successively.
     
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