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Working towards an honest intimacy - my reboot log.

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Nicko Stretch, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    So on day 102 we made love. No chasing sensations, no nervousness, no anxiety, it wasn't planned by either of us, we just found ourselves in the situation.
    It was a joyous experience and a natural extension to our bonding activities.
    I managed to engage with the whole of her body and reframe from becoming genital-centric.
    We stayed calm and relaxed and away from O. I have a warm glowing feeling inside which ignites whenever we touch or I think about the experience.
    So happy to be building positive references to what can be such a powerful and intimate part of a close relationship. :)
     
    quitter1906 likes this.
  2. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    I remember a turning point in my mentality a few months ago. I had not had O for a couple of weeks and we made love. It was really amazing. Well I say that, to be honest I cannot remember a thing that happened apart from the O. I made a point of really noticing how it affected me.
    I have taken a lot of different drugs in my time and I have to say the feelings of being totally high as a kite from that O was stronger than anything I have taken. The initial euphoria as my glands pumped pleasure giving neurotransmitters into my brain was totally consuming. As I drifted slowly away off that initial peak of highness I felt amazing, totally high. When I woke in the morning I could still sense it in my system. A bit heady and drowsy. By the afternoon I felt a bit foggy . I could feel a mild feeling of emptiness, of being drained. Almost like a slight muscle weakness.I certainly did not feel the same motivation to be close to my wife.
    By noticing the effects of the O, I realised how orientated my thinking was around it.How addicted to it I was, and also how much I told myself, "its fine , its natural" "If it happens it happens, if it doesn't then that is fine also" happy in the knowledge that I knew it would definitely happen because that is how my body has evolved.
    So this is what led me to this latest streak. I wanted to detox from O. This has led me to do so much internal work. Addiction is usually an avoidance strategy, and boy was I avoiding dealing with things! By talking and thinking and reading we have made great progress.
    So we are not suggesting the way forward for everyone is to avoid O, but we did want to clarify that 'If it happens it happens' is not our current strategy. We made love yesterday and it felt amazing, and we felt great, and we could have done the same today, and there was no O. At the moment that is how we see our future.Our current work is more of the same. This may evolve in the future, it may not.
     
    quitter1906 likes this.
  3. quitter1906

    quitter1906 Fapstronaut

    I just read this. I can see there is a whole bunch of stuff we need to talk about. I definitely feel the chemical wash of the orgasm. I’d like to talk more about how things were when you started going down this route was it all plain sailing? What challenges did you face? I hear you on the internal work but we’re there other considerations too?
     
  4. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Not all plain sailing. I started 4 years ago because my wife found out I was using P. She didn't know the extent until I told her everything right from the beginning when I was 8. She couldn't believe it.
    We started a different route, that of Karezza. It kind of worked but I was still seeking the sensations rather than seeing lovemaking as a bonding activity. We lasted a few weeks before I Oed. Then another few weeks, then the same. Then i discovered 'self cultivation'. Or in other words edging when I was on my own. I didn't fantasize, while doing it but used it to explore the limits of my own body(and at the same time enjoying a good M and near O experience.) I wrote about it in our shared journal but it was like my wife was in denial. I saw it as a healthy activity. As it turned out she did not.
    I was taking the attitude that I wanted to please my wife sexually so would try to get her to O as often as possible. I couldn't understand why she wasnt into this. This trundled on for 3 or so years until I was more and more explicit in our shared journal about the edging.We were having sex and me Oing every week or so because thats what i decided i needed. She finally blew up and explained how distant she felt from me sexually and how she felt the edging was not helping.
    I thought , OK so lets try a different approach.It was obvious she had not a clue what was going on in my mind when we made love, or generally during the day for that matter, so i suggested we increase our diary use to every day(it was about every 6 months for her) and I would read it to her in the evenings, just so she could get a handle on what went on in my head.And we would stop Oing for a while.
    Firstly she had no concept of the effect Oing had on me or the anxiety I felt when making love.
    I started learning all sorts about myself aswell, and didn't realise the extent to which beliefs get internalised and unchallenged.
    My wife says she didn't miss the sex because of the bonding, and we know we can have it if we like but need to take it slowly. I am sure if she would like more I can provide in other ways than intercourse which would preserve my O, but she has yet to ask about that.
    We also started working through the 8 dates Gottman book. This gave us massive confidence that most areas of our relationship have been and are amazing.
    There have been a few wet dreams but I see these as the body just regulating semen rotation. I have recovered pretty quick afterwards.
    What do think your issues might be if you took this route?
     
  5. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Thinking more about the high we all get from O and then taking that further to think about the high we get from looking at or thinking about anything sexual, I have started looking out for how it feels.There is definitely a faint buzz there, and I guess if I lingered on the thought or looked again, that buzz would be bigger. I can also recall the massive hit I would get if I hadn't looked at any P for a while and then I would indulge. I wouldn't even be aroused never mind M-ing.I would be getting high through my eyes.
    Now though, I have noticed (and it is still taking my be surprise) the buzz I get when I respectfully connect with someone with eye contact and a smile or a greeting(rather than a quick look up and down of their body).
    The high is different though, and the feeling so good. I know this might sound ridiculous but it almost feels like a thank you. There are some people who refrain from making eye contact which probably explains the surprise when someone does.
     
    mrtumnus likes this.
  6. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    A really uncomfortable learning experience over the last couple of weeks. I have had a really difficult piece of work to do which created lots of emotional stress.I got the results from it yesterday which were good. I was very concerned my emotional state would have reduced the quality of my work more but luckily it had not.
    So what I learned.
    I have mentioned the connection between stress and intimacy in previous posts. This experience was an extreme test. During the intensely stressful period i could feel nothing when we kissed or hugged, although there was a craving for sex.And I mean sex. Not love making but O, and I knew this was to relieve stress by bathing my mind in soothing neurochemicals, M and O would have done the trick.
    The bonding activities and intimate behaviour that usually would bring feelings of wellbeing felt like a pointless exercise while I was under this stress load.
    I finished the work on Friday but was freaking out about the results all weekend. Results came yesterday morning and i woke as a new person. The stress was gone and so was the barrier to the feelings of closeness. Our kisses and embraces created a flow of warmth and joy throughout my body, literally I was moaning with each kiss!
    So how do we explain this.
    Apparently dopamine creates the drive for more, and overrides the ability to experience the sensations of the here and now. That is why some people find it difficult to relax and enjoy the moment when making love because the dopamine is making them plan the next move. I think i was so high on the dopamine there was no way i was going to feel anything in the moment. My brain was triggered to keep me moving past the stressful thing, not to dwell on the here and now. When my results came in the dopamine stopped, so I could feel the oxytocin, vasopressin and serotonin again.
    So how do I manage this in the future? I am not sure. At least we can be aware of it now.
     
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  7. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    I have noticed I am relaxing about sexual triggers in the environment. Not that I am dwelling on them, just that when my eyes do catch something or I find myself thinking a sexual thought, it is a lot less effort to turn away from the sight or thought than it was. I feel I have accepted that I will be triggered like this for ever but now have faith and trust in my intentions not to follow these thoughts and visions. I still make an effort to avoid obvious triggers and that gives me a sense of satisfaction. Not looking at the underwear model's body on the bill board, or the woman's body who is wearing a bikini in the travel agents window. I see this as great training.
     
  8. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Another slow love making session this morning. It was enlightening to notice how talking while making love helped me notice and reduce the tension in my body. This highlighted how the current stress I am under creates muscle tension and could lead to an unwanted O if I wasn't aware. So good to be able to be inside my wife as close as can be and then relax my body and breathing. Being totally still meant my erection gently subsided after a beautifully long and close embrace.
     
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  9. It’s always encouraging to read about your journey. I’m still finding it difficult to let go of PMO. I was raised in a very sexually repressive context, so trying to stop PMO tends to feel like more repression to me, and then I get anxiety that I won’t be able to engage in PMO, which fuels the cycle. It’s definitely developed as a self-soothing mechanism, as I have mild depression, so it’s a really ingrained habit. I know this comes down to addressing my underlying beliefs about it, it’s like part of me really believes if i don’t have PMO then I will be miserable, depressed, and constantly sexually frustrated. My SO tries to be supportive, but she can’t help but take my use of P as an act against her and our relationship. But it’s something I dealt with before we were ever together, and it’s a process. My goal is to move towards intimacy (mental, emotional, sexual) with my SO instead of PMO. But it’s hard when after any kind of slip up I feel shame/anxiety/fear and the last thing I want to do is talk about it with her. I see a therapist and have weekly recaps about how the week went, but my SO and I probably only talk about it once a month, when she finally gets the nerve to ask me about it because she can sense my shame/anxiety. By that point we both have so much pent up emotion that the conversation is kind of an emotional bomb. We’re working on communicating more and what that will look like, since I don’t feel I need to be going over every little slip and detail with her. But it’s a tricky situation for sure. But reading about your story reminds me I’m not alone, and gets me out of my head to gain some perspective. I feel like I’m slowly moving in the right direction, but it’s hard for sure.
     
  10. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    I am glad that by sharing our story we can be of some help.
    I was just discussing the repression issue with my wife yesterday. I used to believe that my wife and previous wife used sex to control me. As a reward when I behaved as they liked, and withdrawal as a punishment when I 'misbehaved'.
    The obvious solution to this was M. I could have sex by myself whenever I liked and so was not controlled by sex.
    This worked but did not help me develop intimacy are trust with either of them.
    So what changed?
    Firstly,accepting that nothing bad will happen if I do not ejaculate. My body appears to have got into a monthly nocturnal emission cycle. I have also learned to really enjoy being sexually aroused and intimate with my wife without a focus on orgasm.
    Secondly, deciding that I can manage my mood and mental health without relying on sex to self medicate. This journey has been very difficult and uncomfortable but massively rewarding.
    Definitely worth the effort. I recommend using any of the strategies outlined in the acceptance and commitment approach to therapy. (ACT)
     
  11. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Lovely morning being close and sensitive with my wife. Tiredness and stress have given way to sensitivity with waves of pleasure flowing through my body when touching my wife. Mini orgasms radiating out from my genitals into the rest of my body and into my head. :) What have I been missing all these years.
     
    Hyperlord likes this.
  12. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Last day of the year and 4 months in. I am resolved to stick with the nofap programme and change my attitude and thinking towards sex, even though I still get automatic thoughts distracting me, even though I still get cravings for orgasm orientated love making, and even though, by removing the crutch of sexual thinking I am having to face some really uncomfortable truths.
    Why? Because I an acutely aware we only have one life and if things can be better in my relationship with my wife I am going to try really hard to make them better. I still feel near the beginning of the journey .Even last night I found myself fantasizing about having sex with my wife just to get off to sleep. The first time in 4 months. I will write about it in our journal today and talk about it with her probably tomorrow due to the evenings celebrations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  13. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Made love this morning with good communication to avoid unwanted ejaculation, slow but with full body stimulation leading to intense pleasurable feelings for both. Because of my PE, probably the first time ever (with me) my wife has had orgasmic feelings without oral . No PE today though and no ejaculation but waves of great pleasure radiating from genitals up to head almost from the start of the 30-45 minute session. And feelings of great closeness and love. What a wonderful way to start the year!
     
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  14. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    I cant believe we had that massive love making session this morning without O and I am not craving more. I do feel a sense if fulfillment .This is great, and so welcome right now. We can make love, experience great pleasure , feel really close , but without the down side of a refractory period or chaser effect.
     
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  15. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Really interesting discussion last night about this forum. My wife knows i use it and is supportive of that, but I still feel the need to shut the window if ever she comes close and I am on the forum. If she asks me directly I will tell her exactly what I am doing and she usually finds it interesting but there is some subconscious trigger still lurking that makes me shut down the laptop to stop her seeing me on the forum. We think it is left over from using and hiding P, but I also used to look for support online and have to hide that as well.
    I explained wich forums i go on within Nofap and why, and i also explained the "Beware possible triggering content" buttons the admins use to cover up explicit posts. She hadn't even thought that I could have been using the forum as a P sub and was reassured to know that there are steps taken to prevent this.
     
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  16. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Amazing experience last night. I was first in bed so took the opportunity to do an 8 minute breath watching mindfulness practice. About 6 minutes in my wife entered the room and realised what i was doing. She said sorry very quietly but stayed in the room.I tried to continue to meditate and was overtaken by an intense feeling. From my groin upwards my body was gradually filled with a light warmth which grew and grew. A massive grin grew on my face which turned into a quiet chuckling. My wife thought I was laughing because she was in the room trying to be quiet so buried her face in the pillow next to me to try to stifle the sound of her breathing. This was just too much and i broke out into full on laughter!
    I really cannot explain the feelings. I was pretty much empty of mind being 6 minutes in, my wife coming in triggered what felt like some out pouring of energy.
    Never experienced that before.
     
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  17. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    This journey is so up and down. I have started to realise how much I used avoiding techniques to get away from pain and discomfort. Now I am turning towards the discomfort and pain, I am becoming more sensitive to it. In the past I would automatically start a avoidance/distraction method when pain came on the horizon. Now I am finding it a challenge to deal with the full force of those feelings after so many years of muting them by self medicating neurotransmitters.
    The red pill analogy is so pertinent with me now. I have gone from blissfully unaware but lacking meaning in my life, to brutally conscious of reality and its impact on me, but enlivened and invigorated by the sheer intensity of feeling I am allowing myself to experience. I think I feel truly alive for the first time.
    Is anyone aware of any support forum apart from this one to help me develop strategies to manage my new found sensitivities?
     
  18. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Starting to come out of a cognitive mist. I have increased my mindfulness practice to 20 minutes a day from 10 and this is giving me the mental space to question what I need throughout the day. I have also started investigating Metta (Loving kindness meditation) this focuses on recognising love within myself so I am able to love others more deeply. This is really helping with being close to my wife even when I am feeling stressed and down. I am reading Sharon Saltzburg's book "Loving Kindness". Very well written and insightful.
    In terms of physical intimacy, I need to remind myself that the times when I feel the most intimacy are when I am giving and attentive to my wife, rather than passively receiving. This morning my wife reached over and touched my body but it wasn't until I reached over and touched hers that sexual energy was kindled inside of me. She had hurt her little finger and asked me to kiss it better which turned into a very sexually energising activity although the contact was only between her finger and my mouth, my whole body was energised. A good way to start the day :)
     
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  19. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Really enjoying the loving kindness meditation. I am using it to focus on qualities I want to foster in myself.
    The first is being present in the moment so I am aware of my feelings and don't just automatically react to them.
    The second is openness, which includes being open to others in a loving way, and also being honest about my feelings with others.
    The third is being connected, so recognising that i am connected to the beings around me in some way or another and that my actions will have an affect on them.
    Lastly being intimate with myself and others. Intimate with myself means really taking notice of my needs and caring for myself in a loving way . Intimacy with others, physically with my wife, and if I have the resources to give intimacy of heart felt issues with anyone in need or if I need to share. This last one is about accepting vulnerability and trust.
    I am finding this process is bringing great joy, and also a level of emotion I am not used to. I am being a little clumsy sometimes in expressing the feelings. Hopefully this will improve as I get used to these new feelings.
     
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  20. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Some times I find it really uncomfortable to accept the discomfort I used to self sooth with some kind of sex. Tiredness is a big one.
    Feeling very tired now.
     

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