Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Nicko Stretch, Oct 7, 2019.
Getting so into loving kindness meditation.
Really interesting evening the other day. I was tired but also quite stressed with impending deadlines. I went to bed before my wife and dozed off. When she came to bed I woke to feel myself very aroused. When my wife reached over to hold my genitals it was like a stream of energy flowed out of them into her hand, and the stress in me slowly drained away. This happened over a period of about 10 minutes. The feelings were very pleasant. After the 10 minutes my erection subsided and I fell back to sleep.
This was almost the opposite of traditional orgasm focused love making. The high energy was at the beginning and when we connected the energy gradually dissipated amongst the two of us(or so it felt), like a gentle orgasm that lasted 10 minutes.
It is an unfamiliar concept for most the idea that arousal can reach relaxation without the need for ejaculation or orgasm but I can assure you it is achievable and has so many benefits over conventional love making. One great thing that happened when we removed O from our love making is that the sensations of pleasure from arousal are magnified and happen with the smallest of contact. The only frustration I ever feel is when I haven't been able to be close to my wife for a while, because even 20 seconds of embrace can generate those pleasurable feelings.
The last 144 days have really challenged my beliefs about such things as gender, gender stereotyping, sexism, sexuality, societal influence, neuroplasticity, hormone regulation and manipulation and a myriad of other things.
I feel so much more connected to the half of the human race which I was conditioned into believing was mysterious, alien and 'different' to males. The objectification of women, by definition, removes respect for them as individual human beings.
What does this look like in real life? Well I believe that if you intentionally check out a woman's curves you immediately create bias in the way you may communicate with them, shutting doors on how open you will be able to be with them and how far they will trust you.
I used to check out women's curves as a matter of course. Just seeing how aesthetically pleasing they are. Then I used to get really confused when they didn't seem to want to build a friendship with me even though I had no sexual intentions. Humans are great at interpreting non verbal language and I am sure those women knew what I had done either by witnessing it or by reading my behaviour.
Things are different now. I see women firstly as fellow humans,I do not intentionally 'check them out' . Now, I have started building valuable friendships with women based on respect and honesty. Even just saying hello in the street I can hold my head up and somehow they notice my intention and respect.
So many men think looking at women in a sexual way is totally harmless. They need to change their thinking.
Alternatives to sex. So why do we have sex? To show our love and to feel good. There must be so many ways to do that other than simulating baby making. We are going to put together a range of physically intimate activities we can use when we are in different moods. Things we can do when one of us is stressed, tired or feeling unwell, as well as when we are feeling energised, playful or sincere. These may involve sexual arousal and intimacy and they may not.
Interesting observation. I have started a placement phase of my training and am really enjoying what i am doing. I feel very comfortable , and the challenges I look forward to.
I have also had two near wet dreams and more unwanted sexual thoughts than the previous few weeks.
I think this is to do with the dopamine surge from doing something I enjoy and feel competent in. Because my mind relates the feeling of having more dopamine in my system to having sexualised thoughts, these thoughts are occurring.
I can imagine that in the past I would find this difficult to deal with, and would lose faith in the NoFap regime, however this is not happening. I am being more accepting of the thoughts, but certainly not following them. When they turn up, I ignore them, and in both near wet dreams I have realise what was happening and stopped it in my dream. Mindfulness practice is so important for me in order to be able to recognise the thoughts sooner rather than later and let them go before they go too far.
Really good discussion with my wife about my recent sexualised thoughts and near wet dreams.It is so liberating to be able to talk about them openly with my wife. I can only do this now because I genuinely am not following the thoughts so feel honest in admitting I am having them. I am not going into details of each and every thought but have mentioned they can be about her or about other women which she accepts. These are automatic unwanted thoughts I have no control of other than to not entertain, dwell or follow them.I am hoping this is just a phase because of my change of work place and work demands.
Hi Nicko. You are doing great work. I see the way you wish unto be closer to your wife by avoiding fantasy and bad dreams. You must be lucid in your dreams if you can stop them sometimes. I think if you explain to your wife you are doing all this cause she is number one. You want to focus on her.
Thanks Danny. Yes, she knows I am doing this to improve our relationship. Every time I have the courage to express my thoughts and feelings honestly it helps her build trust in me and the process.
Nice closeness yesterday morning. I felt present most of the time. I was aroused immediately but it took about 5 minutes for the rest of my body to come alive with tingles and energy flowinging up and down it. This is something I was never aware of when i was still O ing. Now I have really pleasurable feelings through my whole body after a while of intimacy which can last for as long as we like(although blue balls can be a thing if it goes on for more than about 30 minutes).
One issue I have is that, although my wife touches my genitals freely in such closeness I feel guilty that I do not touch hers, feeling I should be giving the same back. This is a historical guilt thing from when I used to just lay there while she would 'get me off'. She would complain I was not giving her any attention but when i tried to reciprocate she became frustrated that that wasn't what she wanted.
I now know through experimentation and lots of talking that what she actually wanted was me just to be present while making love. Not off on some fantasy or wallowing in my own pleasure. So now I bring myself back to the present moment and touch my wife in anyway i like and sense she would like. This is rarely genitally focused but my wife assures me my attention to the rest of her body is ample in creating many pleasurable feelings.
So now i am in the situation where I enjoy long sessions of full body pleasure while being present with my wife, touching and holding her body as I would like to (which brings me even more pleasure), while also giving her pleasure.
Everything seems so much simpler now I am being honest and open.
I've noticed that M encourages selfish and self-centered tendencies. This in turn causes me to be less aware of my wife's needs and desires which then causes problems which of course then cause temptations for me to want to feel better. Sorry for the run-on sentence but it truly is a vicious cycle of problems that begin with M and run right into P.
My wife and I have decided that sexual pleasure should be the domain of our relationship exclusively so M is not on the menu. As for O, I personally have a history of addiction and the high I get from O is too close to other ways I used to get high, and therefore not helpful in my current recovery phase. I don't know how long this will go on for but if it is like drinking, (I stopped completely for about 8 years, and now have maybe 2-3 beers a month) I am not setting dates or targets.
Really resonating with Diana Richardson's work - sex as meditation.
Another really good date with my wife focusing on routines, rituals and traditions. We spoke about holidays, meal times getting up and going to bed routines. We discussed how things used to go when we were children, and how we would like them to go in the future.
So often these kind of chats uncover some pain, neglect or trauma from my childhood, and help me understand some of my adult life behaviour.
Our plans for the future basically involve more communication and acceptance and respect for the fact that we are both different. We already commit to 'long' kisses and embraces on meeting and leaving each other( long means more than 6 seconds - doable even if we are late). We plan to put in that extra effort to make occasions like meal times special (we never eat infront of the TV because we havent got one!) no phones at the dinner table, nicely presented food and conversation.
Holidays can be made special too, as well as having mutually enjoyable weekend structure, and respect for each others revitalising routines be they stretching, yoga, meditation or playing the euphonium!
All these actions are working towards our relationship and connectedness growing stronger and deeper, which makes our love making deeper and more meaningful.
Reading a lot of peoples journals on here is like going back in time in my own life. I have been in the position where I wasnt sure if i should tell my wife, or I wasnt sure if I should stop M, or I thought I 'needed' to O regularly just to stop me exploding(getting angry frustrated). I used to think sex was the most important key to a strong relationship(maybe it is for some but not us). I couldn't bear to think of life with less sexual stimulation in it. I thought it was totally OK to fantasise about sex all day(its my mind after all I thought), and to look at and appreciate other peoples bodies from a sexual perspective(I can look at the menu, I don't have to order). I got to the point where I would edge infront of the mirror because that wasnt P in my mind, and I wasn't Oing so that was OK too.
My wife and I talked about that last night. I reframed it as basically masterbating to live pornography(me in the mirror). The thing is I really thought it was innocent at the time. I had totally convinced myself that i was 'learning about my own body', and 'building sexual energy to use with my wife'. What actually happened was that I used it as a coping mechanism to avoid discomfort in my life, and so i didn't have to face the diss-connect and anxiety I felt about my sexual relationship with my wife.
From the first time I did the mirror thing I wrote about it in our journal, but I was vague. I would say I was aroused and looked in the mirror, or I enjoyed sensual touches while aroused. My wife never realised what I was actually doing until 3 years later my journal entry explained it more fully. She was totally surprised and upset. This is what triggered this latest 158 day no PMO streak. No 'sensual touching', no 'self appreciation in the mirror while aroused', no fantasising, ogling, requiring 'release' by Oing.
All those beliefs and habits are now gone and our relationship is honest. The sex we get is between us, not shared between us, and me having a sexual relationship with myself. It is a different way of living but highly recommended for a more meaningful relationship.
Wet dream last night. First in 8 weeks. A bit of chaser today,feeling distant from wife and more sexualised thoughts popping into head.I know this will pass and I am not following thoughts.We have talked about it and know it is to do with other things than our feelings for each other. We have the house to ourselves for 10 days so we are really looking forward to spending some intimate time with each other.I am really liking the values work I have done which has stemmed from reading about acceptance and commitment therapy. I now run things through my values filter before acting on them. So for instance if a thought of M comes into my head(usually as a stress relief strategy) I say to myself 'but I want to save sexual experiences for between myself and my wife so i better find a different stress relief strategy'. Or if I think "Why am i doing this to myself I could be having all that pleasure from PMO" My values say 'you have decided to live without the constant sexualisation of your mind because it was making barriers between you and your wife and other friends, you value those relationships over the high you get from PMO'.
It is not easy by any means, but it is incredibly rewarding to be able to be totally honest with people. I have to work with some very attractive people and I admit I have to make a conscious effort to stop my eyes drifting sometimes but I do stop them drifting and that feels amazing. I feel a sense of connection with people now which was missing when my mind was constantly seeking sexual stimulation.
And I can look my wife in the eye with honestly, knowing I am not living a secret life in my mind behind her back.xx
Glorious lovemaking this morning. Gentle touching and embracing which built fantastic full body sensations. No penetration but that really isn't an issue. We both enjoyed it and my wife says she is feeling like we need more practice which I agree with. Really honest discussion about times in the past when I have appeared non responsive and she has thought it was her when actually it was me feeling down or stressed or tense not wanting contact.
She said she was happy to trust that I wasn't craving and searching for physical stimulation-using her to get off with rather than sharing each others bodies in a tender way. She could tell I was in the moment rather than some fantasy of what might happen next.
I can still feel the tingles now when I remember this morning, and when we kiss and embrace, the same feels echo up and down my body. So much nicer and more wholesome than just 5 seconds of intense discharge and rolling over. we both said we could have made love for hours like that.
Amazing intimacy meditations recently. I am using the Metta loving kindness prayer but adapted to include "may i be intimate" with this i visualise my wife and I becoming translucent and flowing into one another while embracing. It puts a broad smile on my face. The meditation is a great gap filler between opportunities to be more physically intimate with my wife. We are both quite busy at the moment and are finding it challenging to find the time to relax into one another.
Totally related to me stopping using sex to avoid and self sooth I am now having to deal with various childhood traumas which I have never let myself properly feel. With my last avoidance method gone I have had to turn to the pain and look at it straight between the eyes, feeling every bit. It has brought many tears and many very low feelings but also a sense of cleansing. So many sad and painful hidden memories.
Great relaxing weekend. My wife is feeling more confident to speak about difficult things I have done in the past and it is interesting for my to analyse them without becoming defensive.
We discussed our feelings about having more sex in the future. I concluded that I still feel at the beginning of the journey to discovering how sex fits into a relationship after years of thinking sex is something I am entitled to and the fact that she was my wife meant she had to meet this need. I now realize that sex can be so much more than a physical action.
She says she is comfortable with the amount of sexual interaction we have now and is open to it increasing. I am very aware that this has to come from a place of sharing and love, rather than from a place of me wanting to get high.We have no rules or restrictions at the moment we are just taking things really really slowly. I have a feeling though, that may change once we both have more energy and time.