Would it be healthy to do this?

I feel like this is full of contradictions

 

I would think it would turn you into a P-Sub and masturbation aid.
Also... Unless you REALLY don't want sex...
For whatever reason....
If he has enough time to masturbate (average time for most men is 10 minutes) from starting to finish is the same average as sex with a partner.

 

More thoughts... Rambling them out because you were sporadic...
If he keeps using the same place to do old/revamped versions of the habits, it will lead back to the habits.
Just because you can see his cell doesn't mean he didn't think to hide the laptop under the sink.
You essentially told him it was OK to edit the habit in the shower.
And if he's doing anything in the shower, then it's not Just With You.
So... There is that.

 

I would say it's a judgment call and if he returns to old habits...
Well, if I had made those compromises, I'd blame myself... But that's me.
Maybe get some other opinions, like @Torn or @SpouseofPA

 

My SO used to do it at work, in the grocery store bathroom.... Just where ever.
So it was bad.
I know about lying and when you think you hit bottom... There's more.
I'm for strict boundaries but I know others have other systems that work too.
@AnonymousAnnaXOXO is insightful
And even @Bel @TryingToHeal are a good reference too

 

If he can't go until tomorrow without the orgasm, then he is addicted to O. Whether this leads back to P, maybe or maybe not, but it's not leading to intimacy. If you're having sex that often, he shouldn't have trouble waiting. If he does, that's a problem and you shouldn't enable it. You won't be a p sub per se, but you will be a medicinal masturbatory aid. He needs to O because he needs rid of the brain fog. As you describe it, it's not going to be a communion between two people; it's "okay let's get me off; do your part of the work, bitch." He doesn't have to see you that way in his right mind in order to see you that way when he needs his fix.

To be honest, maybe no sex, no m, no O for a while is a better direction than facilitating satiation.

 

I agree with @AllanTheCowboy. He would know even better than I, since he is a PA with over 500 days of recovery under his belt.

I'm an SO, and I would not feel like what you described would be healthy for me or my bf. It's not building intimacy, and I'd rather not be used as a masturbation object by my bf who is actively trying to overcome P and M (which go "hand in hand," so to speak, for most PA's). I wonder if a reboot period of no PMO for him might be worth looking into so his brain has time to rewire, and he's not chasing O's, as you and your bf explore other avenues of intimacy together.

 

I never had a problem with M, either, just P, but until my husband cut out M, he was still in that sex on the brain all the time mindset, which for him, lead to psubs. Even if he doesn't have his phone with him in there, he can use fantasy, things he saw earlier, etc. to M to, which doesn't help a PA at all. I think the quickest way to break the PMO habit is to cut it all out, but that is just me. This is your relationship and if you are cool with it, then that is what matters. And yes, you can definitely ask him to only O with you if that is what you want as well. That is what my husband is doing, but it was his suggestion, not mine, not sure if that matters.

 

Exactly the same here! My bf cut out P but was still M'ing in the shower to images/fantasies in his mind, which led to looking for more images, then a full-on relapse. I never had a problem with M, either, until I learned how it fuels the PMO cycle for PA's, and until he was using it as a replacement for intimacy with me. He's decided to abstain from not just P but also M because based on history, he can't M without it leading to P.

 

So my husband also used to PMO in the shower. Personally, from our own experience, and from what a lot of others have said, M usually leads to urges to PMO. So for us, there is no Ming for my husband, and the only time he O's is with me sexually. With most PA's Ming is so intertwined with P that they can't make the distinction. So if they M, usually they think about P, or get urges to use P.

We also recently discovered that my husband couldn't get it up in the shower when we tried to be playful. What we realized is that his brain is trained to associate PMO with the Shower, so given he is 1.5 years off PMO and is highly turned off by the idea of porn at this point, his brain subconsciously associated the shower with porn and so he couldn't get turned on.

So I would say be careful about letting him M in the shower... for your guy it might make him think of using again and might be a slippery slope, especially early in recovery. I would say be aware of him using you as an M aide like others have said.

Overall listen to your instincts. Every couple is different and every addict is different, it's really figuring out what works for you and as a couple that matters in the end, and that can take experimentation and some trial and error.

 

My question is, if the two of you usually have sex in the mornings but one morning you don't feel like it and he does, why can't he just wait for you the next day? If he can't wait 24 hours for a release with his woman (or longer), than he is addicted to the orgasm.

Please think about this and don't short change yourself or him by rationalizing away the behavior. Spend some more time here on nofap reading and participating. It can take some of us while to understand what is really going on in our relationships. We are here for you.

 

874!

 

Wow! Ride 'em cowboy! Or not. Or something.
ANH

 

Hi @KMM22

There is a pretty solid consensus building up here and I am going to agree too. When I quit P, I just wanted P out of my life. I had never seen M as unhealthy or sinful so didn't set out to quit M too. But for a PA, M has become a problem. It is too easy for an addict in reboot to replay images of P when M'ing and if he is doing that he is not going to reboot properly and successfully rewire his brain. So I decided that for me, I would quit M as well as P. Thus I will only ever have O with my wife. This means that my brain is re-learning that sex and O are not solo indulgences but a way for my wife and I to express our love for each other and deepen our relationship.

Yes, it would be possible for him to MO while you are there next to him, but then he is either ignoring you and is 'in his head', making you an irrelevant spectator, or he is lusting over your body, making you a masturbatory aid. Either way I would say it is not good for your relationship or for his recovery.

I agree with @EyesWideOpen that if he can't go 24 hours without O, then he is still deep in his addiction. There is no underlying need that he is satisfying, it is his warped dopamine circuit that is driving him to crave his daily fix.

So my recommendations while he is rebooting:

No M for him at all, whether or not you are present.
Plenty of hugs, cuddles and other non-sexual connection.
Space out his Os during reboot. Once or twice a week at most.

Good luck

ANH

 

@KMM22, I totally agree with @anewhope.
I'm wishing you (both) the very best on your common PMO-free journey!

 

I am not so sure.

Like @anewhope I have found giving up masturbation a really useful aid to giving up porn. But if your boyfriend is able to give up porn while keeping masturbating then good luck to him. I am currently on 406 days without porn or masturbation (and 412 days without porn). That feels great - I am proud of that number. But my longest streak since I started trying to quit porn in 2010 was from 18/11/11 to 2/9/13, i.e. 654 days, and that was without giving up masturbation.

N.B. For me it was psychologically important that my masturbation (and porn use) was separate from my wife (explained in point eight here), but it sounds like your boyfriend doesn't have that weirdness.

I think what you described, at least in the first post, sounds beautiful. The second post makes it sound perfunctory, which I think plays into this "masturbation aid" or "masturbation object" idea that @Kenzi and @Torn mention. But if your boyfriend is comfortable with (or even enthusiastic about) you asking him to only orgasm with you then that sounds really sweet to me. If he cuddles you and touches you while he masturbates or while you pleasure him with your hand there's a togetherness and a joy in giving him pleasure that sounds loving and beautiful to me.

One of the things I admire about this site is its experimental nature: we are all trying out what techniques and ideas we can to give up porn and sharing our successes and failures in the hope that our experiences will help others. So I say give it a try.

(There's an English saying for this: "suck it and see", but I think that's inappropriate here.)

If it works great, if it fails and he's drawn back to pornography you'll have both learnt something.

If you do decide to go for it I would love to hear if it works for you both. Perhaps you could persuade your boyfriend to keep a journal here? Sharing what works and supporting other men here really helps because giving up porn can be way way harder than you expect (it is for me).