Would You Date a *** ****? (Potential Trigger)

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by Deleted Account, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    If you are referring to me here, then you are falsely characterizing my statement and my sentiment. I do not want to take away the best option available to these women--I want a better option to be available to those who would take advantage of it. I always worry about people whose sense of "realism" causes them to adopt a condescending attitude towards those who wish the world were a better place. Do you think that you can magically gaze into my heart and tell me that my motive is selfish? How dare you.

    What I'm saying is that I wish the money were available to these women without them feeling like they have to sell their bodies in order to obtain it. Maybe that's not practical enough to suit you, but it certainly is different from the situation you're describing. Again, I feel you are falsely characterizing what I wrote. But perhaps I could have been a bit clearer.

    This is sort of what I meant when I wrote, "Man, it sucks to have ideals in this crazy, f***ed up world." But I have no intention of abandoning those ideals. Without some concept of how things could be better than they are, nothing would ever improve. Maybe I run the risk of standing out as a fool, but that is better than playing it safe and never making a difference for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  2. Plutonium

    Plutonium Fapstronaut

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    I wasn't. I quoted you on your radically impossible utopian ideal. The rest was digression.

    Wishful thinking gets us exactly nowhere.
     
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  3. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    Let's agree to disagree on this.
     
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  4. beforeseptember

    beforeseptember Fapstronaut

    Of course, this does not include young men and women who are performing porn because of force, coercion, manipulation, or deceit. "...by their actions"--what exactly do you mean here? Do you believe that a victim of human sex-trafficking actually wants to be in porn just because they said "give it to me!" in the film? Do you think that just because they submit to being brutalized by three individuals simultaneously and appear to enjoy it then that means that "porn is better for them than the next best available option"? I am feeling uncertain that your logic is "undeniable". Perhaps you would care to address this rebuttal?

    You seem to operate under the impression that all women in porn have complete control over the scenes they do and are not unfairly treated, manipulated, deceived, or threatened if they do not comply. Are you "helping" someone by financially reimbursing them for being a victim of abuse? Was slavery okay because slave-owners reimbursed them with food and a place to sleep? "If we took slavery away, then we would also be taking away shelter and food from these slaves!" You are begging the question. The question is not whether porn actors get paid or should get paid, we know the answer to that. The question is whether this arrangement is justifiable considering the effects of the industry as a whole. Reimbursement does not magically justify the act (think back to the slavery example). Also, I am aware that some porn actors/actresses claim that they love their job and such. There are cases like these. But even so, that still does not justify any effects the industry has on society. There are many layers to this issue.

    Nor does pessimism or adaptation to a profoundly sick society. Good day, and I do genuinely wish you success on your recovery. Take care!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  5. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    I don't think he is being pessimistic and is being realistic. Adapting to "the profoundly sick society" to place yourself in position to create change is better than wishful thinking... Like I can have the sentiment I wish for world peace and while that is nice, doesn't really change anything... I can wish the porn industry didn't take advantage of vulnerable women but it doesn't change anything by feeling that way.

    I do think your comparison to slavery is a bit extreme, people in the past were enslaved. You were a slave or you die kinda extreme. That was a time people's freedom and rights was being suppressed and a situation where people were being discriminated and people were not given equal opportunity to succeed. I do think in todays society there are less walls for someone to successfully create a modest living.

    I do think it's good to be a wishful thinker every once in awhile, but you need to be able offer realistic and alternative solutions as well. Or else too much wishful thinking is just someone having a fantasy, enjoying some mental masturbation. It makes you feel better but you aren't accomplishing anything. "Man wouldn't it be so much better if *fill in with some nice thoughts*" but take no action towards it. That also perpetuates the continuation of the present problem. They'll just think about how it'd be nice if it changed, but don't do anything to change it.

    Like your example of how the porn industry is bad, just like slavery, but give no helpful ideas how to solve the issue. no shit I imagine most people on this forum understand porn is bad for society without your insight.

    Sorry I'm just triggered because you made is seem like a bad thing when someone gave the hard truth that wishful thinking alone doesn't accomplish anything. It's true, why are you bashing him for being honest.

    I don't know of its true or not, but hey maybe you are right, this society is profoundly sick. Seriously who the fuck are you. You act like you are better than the rest of society, please get off your high horse, you're on nofap like the rest of us.
     
  6. beforeseptember

    beforeseptember Fapstronaut

    Thank you for your reply. Now to address your questions and concerns:

    You are right, our feelings alone do not cause change. However, keep in mind that the changes that we do make, both as individuals and a collective society, are inspired by our attitude and feelings on a matter. If our feelings towards slavery were that it is okay, then why would be moved to change it?

    I did not use slavery as a similar comparison, but as an analogous tool to illustrate that financial reimbursement does not justify an action. It does not matter whether it is slavery, porn, or paying someone to kill another human being.

    I agree, it is good to be a "wishful thinker" at times too. How can we bring about positive change if positive ideas never existed to begin with? In my original post, I did not claim that I had the answers or solutions, nor was this the purpose of my response. I was addressing claims another individual had made. Perhaps we can discuss possible solutions once we have established what our attitudes, values, and beliefs regarding an issue are first?

    I did not mean to trigger you @Toomuchh, but if you read my original post, you will notice that the majority of my response was rebutting his "undeniable" conclusions about the porn industry, not his claim that wishful thinking accomplishes nothing. Perhaps I was a bit harsh when I addressed that in the last sentence of my post. However, I never claimed that he was pessimistic, I was addressing his line of thought that "wishful thinking gets us nowhere". What is the alternative to wishful thinking? Claiming it to be action is not congruent with the logic--wishful thinking occurs on the level of the mind, and action occurs on the level of the body. How can you compare them?

    I am who I am. I did not mean to put anyone down. I like to engage in healthy debate and am willing to change my perspective when a valid argument is made. I hope you find peace and success in your recovery. We are all here to support each other. I am okay with your judgments, but just as a thought, most individuals will find more insight if they seek to understand someone instead of judge them.

    I wish you the best in your recovery my friend, and I hope I addressed any questions you had.

    Take care,
    bs
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  7. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    Fair enough, I respect you didn't get offended. I do agree that your response to rebut his "undeniable" conclusions were valid, I just misinterpreted your closing statements. I mean I know you didn't specifically claim he was being pessimistic, but the delivery implied that. I understand now that you were trying to say, there are worse things to be, like being pessimistic. But you gave out an oddly specific response delivered right after you clearly stated what you thought of his opinions. So forgive me if I misunderstood. I would also want to know why you think being adaptive to society is bad, and what you mean society is profoundly sick. That was honestly the thing I found the most offensive. To me that sentence discredited all those people working hard each day, grinding and making the best of a bad situation just to survive. But I think from reading your reply that you aren't somebody like that and I probably misunderstood and don't understand what you are saying.
     
  8. I was listening to The Liturgist podcast and there was a story of something like that happening. This guy who was a Christian worship leader was in Thailand for an evangelical conference and he ended up getting to know this prostitute. You can listen to the story here. The story starts at 11:45 and is about 15 minutes long. It's quite a remarkable story.
     
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  9. beforeseptember

    beforeseptember Fapstronaut

    Hey Toomuchh

    I think you are right... my tone was a bit harsh. When we have strong feelings towards a topic, our emotional overtones can drown out our message. If we wish to be forces for positive change, then it is important that we keep our emotions in check. I apologize. :)

    I was echoing a quote by Jiddu Krishnamurti. Perhaps his exact words will make more sense:

    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

    I did not mean to discredit the hard work that millions of individuals are doing everyday to keep our society functioning well. We all have needs for survival and community. Every society has these needs and have attempted to establish some form of organization to satisfy them. What I meant was, just because something is considered "normal" or "mainstream" does not mean that it is morally right. The "bandwagon fallacy" sums this up well--"everyone else is doing it, therefore it is okay".

    Thank you for replying and letting me know how my words impacted you. I think it is very important that we become aware of our words' power. I want to be a critical thinker, yet be respectful of everyone.

    While porn has impacted my life negatively and probably yours as well, I do not feel comfortable labeling porn as "good" or "evil". However, I do think that critical questions need to be asked regarding the industry.

    We are all here for each other and as a community. I am glad we were able to discuss this in a healthy way! If you ever want to talk feel free to message me bro. :)

    All the best,
    bs
     

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