Addiction is not your problem

Well, it seems like you haven't read my latest post and the attached videos in it, which give the scientific explanation you are looking for. Have a look, if you please, here: https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...-365-days-pmo-free.164046/page-4#post-2169527
To look at the evidence is a free choice and I won't be able to convince you in anything - it's all up to you to decide. But let me tell you that our beliefs - conscious or unconscious, is what makes us accept or deny any information, regardless if scientific or not.

 

No, of course not. But your job should be to proof such broad claims, which until now you didn't do.

 

But I did.

 

Did you? You provided a post with your own personal experiences (which obviously can't be used to back up such broad claims) and attached a bunch of videos, which explain why the people, who do have underlying issues develop addictions more easily. However, as far as I saw it, there is not a single explanation why people, who never experienced any problems or drama, do also develop addictions. If I missed any of it, then please point out the specific paragraph or part of a video.

Just as an example: Of all the things on the list by Dr. Maté literally none applied to me. So, again: You either have to acknowledge, that there are a variety of reasons why addictions happen (not only underlying problems) or you have to call people, who swear they didn't have underlying issues, blind or accuse them of being liars.

 

Buddy, you cannot reply 10 minutes after I've told you about my post, because it take 10 hours and 20 minutes only to watch the interviews with Dr. Maté. You can't just read the titles and decide if the information is relevant or not.

The matters are much more complicated than what people usually are ready to face. Some people deny they have had childhood traumas, but as an inquiry from a professional is done, the facts appear. If you're willing to watch just 10 minutes of one video, which will elucidate the matter we're talking about, here it is for you:

It's all up to you!

P.S. Please, write me a P.M. whenever you find your way out of the addiction. I'm so curious to learn about your life.

Todor

 

Didn't it cross your mind, that I might already know the majority of the videos? Also I do not disput any of the stuff you're providing. I only say, that it's not the whole picture. Genetics, epigenetics and chemical reactions alone can also be the cause of addiction. Simple as that.

 

I'm sorry friend, but it has never crossed my mind that someone can make statements like yours if they have watched those videos.

It may not be the whole picture, but how much of the picture have you explored and understood yourself? I don't claim I have ownership of the truth of everything, but what I know so far, even if that is only the information provided by Dr. Maté, hits home.

I've been through so much shit in my life and at this point I start to see patterns not only in my life, but in the lives of those who are close to me. Yet, trusting people from what they tell you, e.g. "I've had a normal childhood" does not mean that even they understand how their past affect them. It takes a certain amount of conscious effort to understand what is going on. Many of my friends, who struggle with life, don't want to talk about what they have been through, but knowing their families, since we grew up together, it's so clear where the problems come from.

It's good that you mention genetics, epigenetics and chemical reactions, which once more tells me that you haven't listened to the interviews with Dr. Maté, even if you've watched them. If you did, then you should know that the chemistry flow to the fetus, coming from the mother, when she experiences stress is already affecting the later response of the child/adult. As Dr. Maté says, it's "Nature AND nurture", which is here to say that genes alone do not give 100% certainty that if your father has been an alcoholic you will be as well, but in order not to go his way, you have to have had a calm and supported mother, as well as other people in your life to give you support when you needed it. If your father abused your mother and neglected you, that is certainly what will be recorded in your brain (consciously and subconsciously).

See, things are really interesting and I'm ready to provide you with much more evidence and examples, but only if you want that.

And the vice versa - I'll be more than happy to hear your experience and sources of knowledge, here or on personal message. By the way, did you write about yourself somewhere already? I'd love to read.

 

It seems to like we're kinda talking past each other. As I tried to express already, I'm not saying that anything you're saying is inheretly wrong or that anything Dr. Maté is inheretly wrong. What I'm saying is this: There are other reasons why addictions occur as well. And if you really believe what you're saying, then this should make sense to you too as far as I see it.

Let me explain: If you say, that the mother's stress during pregnancy for example can already cause changes to the chemical structure of the brain and therefore cause addictions, then it should make perfect sense to you, that an actual chemical like alcohol for example - which works in the brain - can change it as well without having any predispostions whatsoever. Also, I find it kinda strange to assume trauma is the only cause for addiction, when there are so many people, who did experience trauma and yet they do not suffer from addiction.

 

Such as? Please, do tell! I've been fighting with my addiction over 20 years and I'd love to have all possible causes in the field of my awareness. Provide names and/or links to make my further research. Thank you!

I'm sorry, where did I say that the chemicals flowing from the mother to the baby directly cause the addiction? I said:

What I didn't make clear is that they are affecting the response of the child/adult to stress and stressful factors, like dad who's alcoholic, physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse, bullying, rejection, neglect, divorce in the family and so on.

Now here:

1. Are you sure you want to compare a brain of an infant with a brain of an adult? Do you take into account of the enormous difference of how a child and a grown up (after 20 years of age) respond to substances like alcohol, for example? A well-established and grounded person, who knows their value, who have been supported up to 20 years of age and grew up in a loving and caring family, is highly unlikely to get addicted to anything. Such person can handle stress much more productively and won't be affected as much as me, for example. Yet, if the stress is too great and the person does not have enough self love to make changes to lower the levels of stress in their lives, a form of physical, mental or other disease is likely to occur, as well as possible addiction.

2. Somewhere in those 10 hours of interviews with Dr. Maté he says something that I really value: "Not everybody who has been through childhood trauma gets addicted, but everyone who gets addicted has been through childhood trauma." - That's a statement coming from a recognized expert in the filed of addictions, with enormous experience, which I acknowledge and take as valid.
The quote shows the importance of "nurture", which is part of the entire equation.

It's wonderful that you're expressing your opinion, because it gives me the opportunity to share the information on the topic that gets me up in the morning, is with me the entire day and I go to bed with. Thank you!

Todor

 

Well, as I said: Genetical, epigenetical or simply chemical reasons in and for themselves. No underlying trauma needed.

I didn't do that, so I don't really know what you're talking about?

And that's precisely, what I don't buy. I wasn't for example, nor where a lot of other people according to themselves (in the porn addiction spectrum for example, a famous speaker named Gabe Deem stated multiple times, that he never had any trauma or shame). So, to be in line with your premise, they either all just don't see it or are lying about it. I believe neither is the case.

Well, that's a dangerous way of thinking I believe. Just because one expert says A, it doesn't mean A is true. In the scientific world especially, it's absolutely normal for the experts to have opinions, which contradict each other. How do we "normal" people know, who is right and who is wrong, when they all make sense in and for themselves?

For example Dr. Stanton Peele says this:

By that I'm not saying, that Dr. Maté is wrong. I'm just trying to point out, that there are very different opinions among the experts and we should acknowledge that.

 

I grew up in a loving supportive family, had many friends at school, was good at sports and academics, and had girls interested in me.

So how can I get addicted to video games and porn later on ?

Gabe Deem went over this. He, and many of his friends (like me) had no underlying issues. If you inject someone with 'healthy self esteem' with heroin, is it still impossible for them to get addicted?

No human, no matter their circumstances, are immune to addiction.

Again, as I stated earlier, the lack of education surrounding porn is the issue here. I stayed away from drugs because I knew the risks massively outweighed the 'benefits'.

 

How old were you when you first started playing video games? Same question for the porn?

I'm not an expert in drugs like heroin and I've never tried it, so I can't tell if it possible to get someone addicted to it if you inject it in him/her, but what I know for sure is that this is not called an addiction. It's called a crime.
You can't inject anything in anybody against their will without committing a very serious crime. I don't understand why you give such example.

 

Okay, hold on, I've missed out a very important point that bigboibez made. I should read more carefully

So, there it is:

That is absolutely and undeniably true! But let's look at what stands behind that, shall we? What does it mean that we lack education on the subject P? Doesn't it mean that we lack support and understanding for our needs from the adult figures in those vulnerable years of our growing up? It is either the teachers in school (if we talk about formal education), or - more importantly - the parents.
Now, what happens when our parents miss the moment to talk to us about what's on Internet? - We start to learn from peers. And if we don't have a close and secure connection with our parents, we will either hide from them what we already do, or we would lie about it. Once that occur, there's a gap - the parents are losing grip of their children.

And since I love the work of Dr. Maté so much, I'll have to share that he has a book called: "Hold on to your kids" second title: "Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers". The title says enough already, but just to mention that Dr. Maté says that it is becoming a wide-spread phenomenon that kids teach kids. Isn't that true? I personally (like MANY others) got into MO and PMO through a friend, who was a few years older than me. Why did this happen? Because we were both allowed to have the entire day without supervision and we could do anything. The entire summer vacation was a free time. And my parents were busy working, never talked to me what I've done during the day, never established that connection of trust. They were too busy trying to make a living and having fights.

Did my parents do their best? - Sure they did. Was that a good parenting? - Definitely not.

There are so many problems in our modern society - it's hard to even list them. But what I know about parenting is that the way we are raised up nowadays is very different from what we are used to for millennia, namely - living in tribes, there was always an adult figure around kids at all times!! Supervision was compulsory. Today - it's totally different. I'm not saying we should go back to tribal times, but the parents need to be aware of the possible outcomes of leaving kids alone.

 

I wouldn't necessarily use that language Alex, although you are right in what you're saying. I find it necessary to give information or to point towards it in a kind and respectful way, but the moment the person will decide to let it in - accept or reject it - that's a personal choice.