We need understanding when it comes to marriage

There is a lot we don't know about sex. Particularly in the U.S., we are sold the wrong bill of goods; misinformed at every turn. Marriage is great. Married sex is great. But only if you understand something about brain chemistry and do the "right things".

We married at age 27. My wife was hot then. She's even hotter now (at 46). She is my ultimate fantasy. Yet, I still used porn for all of that time (up to 1 year ago). I always knew I wanted things to be different. I wanted more sex, I wanted it to be better sex. I wanted to ravish my wife; to surprise and delight her; to see her response as I thoroughly pleasured her. But after the first year or two of our relationship, the sex became mechanical and routine. As time passed, I found that it was difficult for me to keep my erection during sex, and I had to try really hard to reach orgasm. I started using weed during sex as a way to compensate. She even admitted that sex had become a chore she wished to avoid as much as possible. How did this happen? And what's the way out?

It turns out that my situation was normal in our modern era. Most marriages end up like that nowadays. It is essentially caused by the "pornification" of sex; i.e. the exclusive focus on the stimulating the genitalia and reaching orgasm every time. Consumption of porn makes it worse; much worse. It all boils down to two things: (1) loss of sensitivity caused by abuse of dopamine and (2) the neurochemical "hangover" caused by orgasm. As reference material, I cite: http://yourbrainonporn.com and http://reuniting.info. Most of what I have learned about sex in the past year that has been of any great value has come from those two sites.

So what's the answer? First, I quit porn for good. I'm done with that. Period. It's a drug and a poison, and it has no place in my life...ever. Second, my wife and I are practicing Karezza, which is essentially non-orgasmic sex. As strange as it sounds, this has totally revolutionized our relationship. We are having sex 3-4 times a week, and it's absolutely mind-blowing. These days, she's asking me for sex. She looks forward to it, and loves every minute of it. Now, I get to ravish her properly, just as I always wanted to!

It took a year for us to really get the hang of it. At first, we both found it very challenging to stop sex prior to orgasm and not feel frustrated. Now, it's just natural to do it that way. It took a number of experiments on our part to realize the negative effects of orgasm; those effects last for 2-3 weeks, by the way, and they affect our energy levels, focus, concentration, mood, irritability, etc. And when orgasm happens even by accident, it's like the song "she's lost that loving feeling", and we know we're in for 2-3 weeks of hell. Armed with this knowledge, we have begun to view orgasm as a kind of trap, so we only take ourselves to 60-70% state of arousal. Going past that begins to get too close to "the point of no return".

Cupid's Poisoned Arrow is a great book that explains all of this in great detail from a mostly scientific point of view. Diana Richardson has written many good books on the topic from a more Tantric perspective. In any case, the information is there for any who wish to learn and explore it.

So that's my long-winded way of answering your plea: yes, married life can be good, and in fact it can be great. So great, that I could never have imagined myself being this lucky. But it does not come for free.

 

That answer has already been given in many previous posts.

However just a quick reply. Forgive me if I misunderstood your tone. You seem to be pointing fingers at others rather than seeking to understand the real issues at stake. Don't know if you have ever been married, it may be best not to act as if you would be better than others when you get married. Addiction to porn or sex has nothing to do with sex or lack of it. I think that like most people you are on this forum because you want to break free from pmo addiction. So, comparing yourself to others or thinking that married people who have difficulties with pmo are liars is perhaps not the best to way be in a community. This addiction affects everyone, young and old, reach and poor, gay and straight, married and single, etc. The root of addiction to pmo is not really a lack of the actual physical sexual contact. Addiction is very complex, so I shall not try to give you all the why's since I do not understand them myself. In most cases people, including many here, get into addictive behaviour as an escape and coping mechanism.

People are not addicted to food because they have no access to healthy food. People are addicted to food because they use it to deal with painful experiences and as a coping mechanism.

Anyway, if you read many of the posts here that answer has already been given. But, I don't really know whether you are seeking for an answer or whether you just wanted to tell married people who are struggling with pmo that they are worse people than you are. Peace

 

Tombuktu, his response is spot on. I love sex with my wife , I have ever cheated on my wife but I am addicted to pmo. It isa different thing and convincing yourself that a relationship is the absolute solution to pmo addiction unfortunately is wrong. if IT were I wouldn't be here. Porn and sex is completely different. Sex does not satisfy the desire to watch porn in my opinion, so I have found

 

Tombuktu, in the past I have found if I feeling slightly down, il use porn but since trying this site I found I always used to masturbate before I went to sleep , I find not masturbating in bed very hard

 

It never ceases to amaze me that when I tell people their sex life can be great if they skip orgasms, no one believes me. I suppose it's not so hard to understand because I didn't believe it either. I thought it was some wacky idea, and that it was for frou-frou moonbeam peace-love-n-light hippies who were still reliving Woodstock or something like that.

I'm just a regular guy who was addicted to sex, porn and all things related to having the best possible orgasms as often as possible. I was using my wife's body as a prop for porn-inspired fantasy. I can tell you, that's the problem. Get rid of the porn, and limit the orgasms (or stop them altogether), and 90% of the shit goes away, and what's left is really really nice! Try it...

 

Hey Bro, peace to you Sorry that I was quite strong on my answer to you. It was one of those days and you just happened to be on the receiving end of my bad mood. Apologies.

As I have said in my answer. Take the example of food. People who have food addiction are not necessarily lacking access to healthy food. They use food as a coping mechanism. In the same way sex addiction has nothing to do with the lack of the real thing (physical sex contact with a partner) it is rather using a particular sexual behaviour as a coping mechanism.

That is why even those who are married still struggle with addictions. They are not liars or uncaring towards their wives. In fact they suffer doubly: they hurt in themselves for being addicted and they also hurt for betraying their partner. Like those who are single, married addicts of those in committed relationships need to learn handle loneliness, anxiety and difficult emotions with maturity rather than using sexual addiction as an escape and coping mechanism.

For those who are single, I do't think that you should be unduly worried. I think since you are aware of the addiction and what damage it can do you can use this time to seek therapy and recovery so that when you get in a relationship you are a bit more whole than others were. Good luck

 

The best way for me to explain it is that it's a paradigm shift. It doesn't make any sense until you try it and can see it from the other side. Just like in "The Matrix", no one can tell you what The Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself. What you believe to be true about O is what I meant when I said that there is much we don't know about sex, and much misinformation. Get "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" and read it. I'm serious - that book explains it all way better than I can, and from many perspectives.

This is a complex topic, with many twists and turns, but let me try to address your comments directly. There are times when I'm still drawn to O. But I have done the experiment enough times to know I prefer to go without. The actual O only lasts a few seconds. It's an intense burst of pleasure to be sure; a peak experience. However, it's like letting all the air out of a balloon. It just goes flaccid; limp. All desire is gone. Then, I get really tired for a few days, even after just one O. And the way I see my wife changes. I become less patient and more needy, and I become really horny. O triggers neurochemical reactions that last up to 2 weeks (sometimes more). When I go without O, I don't feel that uncomfortable horniness; I'm just ready all the time, but without feeling the need to do anything about it (or pressure her in any way). I know that is hard to swallow, but it's for real.

We are misinformed in the U.S. to believe that sex is not sex unless you O. When the goal is to reach orgasm, the sex act is altogether too quick. What if you could enjoy penetration with your woman for hours? Recently, we took a vacation to an island for four days. During that time, we made love for about 4-6 hours / day (not all at once, but you can bet we wouldn't have spent that much time doin' it if it wasn't very very pleasurable)! And each time, I was hard as a rock, and sensitive. If O was involved, I can tell you we would not have even come close to that! You wonder how sex without O can be pleasurable. Try it! At first, I did find it difficult to "see the point". I needed to regain my sensitivity. Now that I have, I can tell you it's very very pleasurable; achingly so...

FWIW, the main reason I even tried non-orgasmic sex was because that's what was recommended for men rebooting with a partner. In other words, I was rebooting, so no O for some number of weeks or months. But what to do with my wife? I couldn't just say, "sorry honey - you ain't gettin' none for a while...". Karezza was the answer to that, and it turned out to be more than just a temporary solution during rebooting; it turned out to be the key to long-term happiness in marriage.

Why do you think > 50% of marriages end in divorce? Why do so many people cheat on each other? Why are most married couples dissatisfied with their sex lives? It's not actually preordained that long-term marriage must end up this way.

These are not new ideas. They are only new to western culture. We are just finding out about it.

 

This was a very interesting thread to read. I'm a while away from being married, but I'll be sure to remember this information for when I am.

 

Yes, I believe that's true. But I don't think it's just women. I also wanted sex to be slower, more sensual, loving and connected. But that didn't fit my ideas at the time which were entirely polluted by porn.

Furthermore, I think women find it very attractive in a man that he has control of his mojo. It's reported frequently by single guys that when they stop MO altogether, they suddenly become chick magnets. So it's not even just what happens between the sheets, it affects your whole mindset.

I have a theory; it's a little out there, but I have good reason to believe this.

Orgasm is obviously a reward for fertilization. Through natural selection, mammals developed this mechanism to ensure propagation. The individual animal doesn't have to make a decision, "do I wanna get some?" It just knows an orgasm can be had, so it goes for it. Wham bam, thank you ma'am. And it's no accident that you don't experience orgasm in all of its mind-bending, toe-curling intensity until you are ejaculating (more or less), so the purpose of orgasm is clear; not doubt about that.

But what's interesting is the neurochemical after-effects. There is little scientific evidence to support this, but many many anecdotal reports. So the effects are real, but what purpose do they serve? My theory is that the post-O cycle makes men extremely horny because the first O signals the presence and availability of fertile females. And perhaps the irritability factors into dominant behavior, and maybe even genetic diversity (by looking to get some on the side).

Unlike many animals, humans don't have a mating season. Women hide their ovulation, and although they do become more sexually receptive during that time, there are no outward signs to attract random males. So I believe that the post-O cycle is essentially an opt-in 2 week mating season. But if that's true, then why does it only last 2 weeks? My guess is that if nothing happens in those 2 weeks, the available, fertile female(s) are either no longer nearby, or they aren't ovulating anymore so there are more important things to focus on, like finding food, shelter, or running away from saber-toothed tigers, etc. That also would explain why women synchronize their menstrual cycles.

So the modern porn-informed western culture has us essentially dulling ourselves by constantly being "in heat". The reason we think about sex all the time and are always horny is because we don't stop having orgasms long enough for the "mating season coctail" to wear off. And that's why so many guys report something like newly found super-powers when they stop jerking off all the time.

It's all really quite fascinating. I'm hoping that there will be some new high-quality research done in this area. It's one thing to fight porn, but entirely another to broaden our understanding of sexual relationships in a positive way. However, I fear that there are some powerful forces that resist uncovering and propagating this information because when you aren't hooked on the O-drug, it's much harder to manipulate you and sell you all kinds of stuff you don't really need based on the subliminal (or not so subtle) sexual messages advertisers use to peddle their goods. And let's not forget how much money there is in selling porn. Those guys are making money hand over fist. They are in no mood to lose profits...

 

Hey, I was not aware of Karezza until this thread. I read a few bits about it since from its main proponents. I can see the merits of such an act and can see when the main advocate of the practice are coming from.

However, the main issue I have with this is that it treats orgasm as evil or the root of all evil. Orgasm is natural and is how we are made. Non-orgasmic sex however is something one has to learn in order to stop doing a natural thing (orgasm). I agree that we have used orgasm in bad ways (compulsive masturbation, etc.)However, throwing the baby out with a bath water is not the answer. While I admire Karezza and may myself learn to practice it, I will not see it as better than the big O or its replacement. It can be just part of lovemaking between two people who love and care for each other. Orgasm is good and beautifl and without it none of us will be alive.

 

@Tombuktu - thanks for your thoughtful reply. It is an interesting problem. I agree completely with you that orgasm is natural, beautiful and serves a critical function.

My point isn't that orgasm is bad, just that it comes with a cost (that is difficult to see unless you know what to look for) and that what we are programmed to do isn't always in our best interest; it doesn't always lead to a life of fulfilled potential and happiness.

As humans, we have the choice to live outside of our programming. We are programmed from a number of sources: evolution has programmed our genes, media, society and our families have programmed our world views, etc. Hence, the reference to The Matrix.

I'm not suggesting that anyone else give up orgasms. I'm only suggesting that they perform some experiments with it so that they can see for themselves what it's all about. The shifts in perception and sexual sensitivity are subtle at first, but they build with time. And going back and forth between the two ways of sexual expression is the best way to really experience the difference. I can also tell you that I was not "a believer", even when I started trying Karezza. I was doing it to solve a problem; to facilitate my reboot. I could not understand from a purely cognitive perspective how it would work, and could not believe that it would be worthwhile. It's like a new kind of food you haven't tried. You couldn't possibly know if you'll like it before having ever tasted it, even if you've read extensively about other people's description of how it tastes.

Having performed the experiments, a person can then make informed decisions about how to manage their sexual energy to best suit their objectives; not those programmed into us by millions of years of natural selection or decided for us by media moguls. We can always choose to have an orgasm when we wish to make a baby, but we don't have to be 24x7 mating machines. Combined, the media and porn have contributed significantly to the hypersexualization of our culture. It's not about bucking nature, but about becoming aware of our programming and consciously choosing what's best for us personally.

Making this shift is difficult. It does, as you point out, require an investment in practicing something new to the point of mastery which requires heaps of self-disipline and a strong commitment, especially in light of how strong the pull is to continue doing things "the natural way". One could even argue that Karezza is unnatural, that by doing this, you are fighting your nature.

We were given a huge brain to help us solve the problems of how to survive despite the fact that we are soft, weak and slow compared to other species that might wish to prey on us. But we use that brain for many other things besides what it was originally designed for. We have created cities, technology, art and music, and all kinds of other things that were not "part of the deal" in getting a big brain. And we were given the gift of our sexuality, which we enjoy strictly for pleasure in ways other animals don't. So Karezza is just an extension of those examples of where humans can use natural gifts in ways that better serve their own purpose as decided by them.

As I see it, there are no rules as such (other than those of morality which are not at issue here). We are given what we are given, and we are also given the ability to choose how to conduct our lives. This, as far as I know, is uniquely human.

I still love a good orgasm, and do partake occasionally. But I've become keenly aware of both the fleeting nature of the experience, and of the costs on the backside of it. Personally, I'm usually not willing to trade the beautiful daily sex with my wife, our new-found harmony, my high levels of focus and energy, etc. for a few seconds of squirting, no matter how glorious those seconds are. That is my choice, and I completely understand and accept that most other people will not choose this path. It is a very difficult, challenging path, but oh so rewarding.