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Help! Madonna / whore complex? Not sure what's happening.

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by SheMonk, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. SheMonk

    SheMonk Fapstronaut

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    I am a little confused and upset and would like some unbiased opinions on the matter. I'll try to keep it short and concise.

    I have been dating a guy for the past 7 months. I'm 28 and he is 32. We were acquaintances for about two years prior to him asking me out. Our relation is what you'd consider consensual open/non-monogamous while also still in the dating phase, but is very respectful, enjoyable, loving, transparent and so forth. It's really great. There is no doubt that we both have deep(ening) feelings for each other, as we tell each other so and it's very evident. We communicate everyday and see each other 1-2 a week, which is perfect. We show up together in public, everyone knows we have a thing and I am also involved with his friends and family, so our relation is by no means a secret or anything.

    I spent 2 years and 7 months in sexual abstinence and we started seeing each other towards the end of my abstinence. He knew everything about it and respected it 100%. My “vow” was to not have sex for 1 year but then continued since I had not met anyone since, who I clicked with enough to want to have sex with them, until this guy. So we had sex after about 4 months. He is a HIGHLY sexual man (or so he says) but he was very nervous to have sex with me and got performance anxious the first time and at other times when it comes to PIV. It's a combination of not being used to condoms, being worried I wouldn't enjoy it, afraid of accidental pregnancies in general, etc. All of that I can deal with just fine, as I've also told him. It's not the first time I've been with guys who I haven't slept with instantly, who gets performance anxiety when the time comes.

    Fast forward. The last handful of times we have seen each other, we haven't done anything sexual, despite him talking about it / insinuating he wants to when we communicate before actually meeting. So I groom myself and all that in preparation but when the time comes, he just wants to lie there and cuddle, snuggle, kiss and talk and be close to me. Again, I have no doubt he is in love with me, but at the same time I couldn't help but wonder if he suddenly found me unattractive or some such. He always tells me how incredibly beautiful I am. And he has no issue getting hard out of nowhere, but it's like when it's about to go down he lately just wants to cuddle and kiss. We have had PIV sex three times in total (but done other sexual stuff plenty of times).


    So yesterday we randomly talked about all the above fears of his (accidental pregnancies, condom annoyance, etc) and continued the conversation in the evening via text. I said it's cool, 'cause I understand his paranoia about accidental pregnancies (I am not interested in getting pregnant either) and said it was fine as long as it wasn't because he didn't want to have sex with me specifically.

    He then went into a text rant which boils down to him saying, he DOES find me attractive and that he likes me very much. That other than what we already discussed, he feels a bit confused about the order in which things have evolved. That he is used to being sexual first and THEN feelings may or may not arise within the relation. In our case feelings came BEFORE we had sex, and for whatever reason that confuses him. He says he is very surprised that he has found someone he actually enjoys conversing with, cuddling with, kissing, being close to, doing all those other intimate things with and actually immensely enjoying doing just those things without necessarily turning the situation into something sexual. He said it confuses him because he is used to his dating relations being more physical [than feely, is my guess]. But that he needs to “get his shit together” regarding his confusion [and do me, if you will].

    So I don't know if I am overreacting, but after reading that rant, I started crying. I am not unattractive at all (not trying to sound arrogant) and I find myself very sexy and others do too. He has always told me he finds me incredibly beautiful and attractive and I believe him. But rarely have I felt so unattractive as I did after this, and I guess I don't really understand what the issue is or if there even is an issue. I very much enjoy that we are very close and intimate in other ways (emotionally) and I love that we can just cuddle up and be satisfied with that, but at the same time I can't help but feel rejected somehow.

    I've been in a similar situation before where my previous love interest had the same issue. Madonna / Whore complex, probably, and it's really fucking frustrating to me, and my ego took a huge punch in the face last night. Again, rarely have I felt so undesirable as I do right now and I don't know what to do about it because I don't truly understand the nature of his issue. I guess I am just super bothered that he, as a highly sexual man who has no problem having sex with women he doesn't have any particular feeling for, apparently has a blockage with me (again, my mind drifts to the Madonna / Whore complex which I also presented to him before and I honestly think that's what's happening here).


    Does anyone have any insight? Advice? Similar stories to make me feel less shitty?
     
  2. You mention several times, that you are afraid, he thinks you are not attractive enough, etc. I think you completly miss the point here and don´t have to worry about that part.
    It´s rather the opposite, that he probably is totally nervous to fullfill all your expectations, of which he is very well informed, because he has been in your friend zone already for two years. He doesn´t want to lose you now neither as a lover nor as a friend and that risk doesn´t exist with dating new, still unknown people and gettin sexual directly from the start. So he has to learn how to deal with a new form of relationship, he has no experience with yet. But if he could wait so long for being together with you, maybe you can give him now some time also, for becoming more relaxed with the new situation. As more you pressure him, as more performance anxiety he will only develop. Trust in him and give him that chance to feel secure with you, because I believe, he really wants you.
     
  3. SpiritVessel

    SpiritVessel Fapstronaut

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    ^^ This is very insightful. And very likely. Also...


    I identify with the guy you're seeing. Sexuality for me was an escape mechanism for so long that casual sex became easy, but intimate sex became difficult. At times, it still is (but I'm still very early in my nofap journey) I agree with @Vandermeer; time and patience are your best allies in this. And communication. It sounds like he's slowly transitioning from a casual/unattached mentality about sex to a healthy/intimate understanding of physical connection. I know in my past, my SOs were a sexual outlet first; and I then built an unhealthy relationship with them on that sex-first and sex-only foundation. It sounds like this guy is trying to build from a emotion-first and intimacy-rooted relationship with you.

    Side note: he may have some ED related to PIV sex and/or condoms. As you've said the other stuff is common between you. This makes me wonder if maybe there might be some deeper emotional things going on for him. The fear of pregnancy especially. Maybe he had a "scare", or lost pregnancy or abortion with a previous partner. Be patient and communicate. And...relax. You found someone who waited for you when you were in your "vow" period; I would suggest you return the favor and be patient with him now.
     
  4. SheMonk

    SheMonk Fapstronaut

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    Thank you both so much for your replies. I really appreciate it!

    @Vandermeer - rationally, I know that he finds me attractive and I am not worried that he doesn't like me. I am just worried that I am missing something vital. But I agree with what you say about being patient, which I am, and I have at no point pressured him for anything - simply just wondered as he's told me he is highly sexual but it's not really expressed with me, which evolved into paranoia, I reckon. I have absolutely no qualms being patient, but my own strong reaction yesterday really surprised me. But yes, I think I might have missed the point. Thank you.

    @SpiritVessel - he has told me before that casual sex has been a way for him to escape certain things. He is very good at communicating (probably better than I am). He comes from a long line of relationships, but clearly ones which started off sexually and weren't very healthy, from what I've gathered. But it's reassuring hearing something similar from you. It creates perspective for me and helps me get out of my irrational paranoia mindset.

    Regarding the PIV stuff, we talked about it yesterday and he has had a few scares in his life, yes. So I totally respect all of that, which I told him, and I am in no rush or have no intend to push him to do anything, which I also told him. I have no doubt he is very, very fond of me and I know I sound completely irrational. He is an amazing guy and I am very grateful for him and the relation. I know my meltdown is irrational, so therefore it's nice to get some outside perspective / reassurance, if that makes sense.

    Thanks again!
     
  5. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    If I'm being honest, it sounds to me like he brags about being a sexual person who's had multiple experience but in reality I don't think he's had that many. He may have been an actual virgin before you dated him. His anxiety to sex seems to me to be out of inexperience. Men often think of themselves as extremely sexual, but that's only in our heads. When it comes to actually being sexual, it scares the shit out of us.

    I'm talking out of experience as being a guy myself. If we're not able to perform within our own standard of what we picture our own performance is like, than sex becomes something that's actually frightening. It's almost like thinking that your tough shit, but the second someone wants to fight you, you run away screaming like a little bitch. He likes cuddling and kissing because it doesn't require him to perform and "last" long enough for you to get off as well. It's a nice safe zone.

    We like to keep our ego's secure, and if we want to think of ourselves as being able to F like porn stars, than we will go to extreme lengths to protect that image. Even if it means not actually having sex at all. When guys fail to please their woman, it a huge kick to our nuts. Nothing can be more damaging to our egos.

    If you want to have sex with him, be honest with him and tell him that you don't care about the way he performs. Tell him that you want the both of you to learn how to grow sexually together. It's going to be awkward the first like 6 times, but eventually you guys will get the hang of it and find a nice rhythm.
     
  6. Fishkeeper

    Fishkeeper Fapstronaut

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    Could it be that he have a secret PMO addiction? I ask because the symptoms are quite similar to what I passed when I first knew my wife. We saw each other 1 time a week because we were in two different cities, and while alone I would masturbate every day with porn. Then when we finally met sometimes I would be very frightened to not have enough energy to perform. This continued also later while married.
    The act of starting a sexual encounter and then convert it to cuddles is usually a consequence of not feeling the immediate hard-on that we would like. Maybe it is blocked by anxiety or maybe there is one, but not good enough to guarantee a good performance.
     
    SheMonk likes this.
  7. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    This has nothing to do with the OP feeling shitty, this has everything to do with her partner. He scared he might loose you.

    Also ever heard that saying, those who 'talk a lot about something are actually not so great in regards to that something?'
     
    SheMonk likes this.
  8. SheMonk

    SheMonk Fapstronaut

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    A little update (and thanks for all your replies)!

    I took your advice and talked to him about it some more. He even looked up the Madonna / Whore complex after I voiced it, and he could relate to it, just as I suspected.

    Anyway, we talked about it face to face when we met again; talked about sexuality in general and just got to know each other more verbally in that subject. I am not exactly sure what happened or what exactly helped him, but then he initiated sexy times and performed outstandingly. I am not a man, but I understand that performance anxiety is a thing, which is much more visible with a man (loss of or no erection, etc) whereas women can fake it quite easily. So it makes sense that men's performance fear is much greater.

    In any case, it was a great succes. I do think it is/was also a matter of trust, being comfortable with one another, knowing each other better on the subject of sexuality and him becoming able to integrate both the non-sexual and sexual aspects of me, as one entity and not just a Madonna.

    @Roady - thanks for your viewpoint, however I am not interested in marriage. But I do agree that sex can indeed bond people. :)
     
  9. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    I am in his shoes in my current relationship. My bf is the ONLY man I've been with where sex didn't come first, followed by a "relationship". We dated for 3 months without doing ANYTHING but hanging out and talking. He kissed me one night. Maybe a month later we slept together. His PA gave him PIED...so we only had sex 3 times in the first 6 months. He was PMOing 2-3times a day every day during that time. My self esteem has been destroyed. Even now, months after he's stopped. So understand how you feel in the feeling unattractive and undesirable department.
    But to the issue. Don't take it personally. For me connecting so deeply with him without sex involved was terrifying. Because it's a connection i have NEVER felt with someone. It feels like real love. Every other man I thought I loved before I see that I didn't. Your bf likely feels similar. I'm scared to let my bf down especially because i don't want his PA to rear it's ugly head if I don't satisfy him.
    Your man likely feels confused as he said, and scared because these feelings of love without sex are so foreign. When men get anxious or worry about sexual performance they may experience ED. And they can't control it. That may be what's happening here. Believe me, he wants to. Maybe he's just afraid he'll let his head get the best of him and let you down.
    Compliments go a long way. Reassure him and be patient. If you two have a deep connection nothing will stand in the way. You'll find a way through it together.
    Best of luck ❤
     
    SheMonk, goodnice and SpiritVessel like this.
  10. SheMonk

    SheMonk Fapstronaut

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    @Katrina Rose - Hi there! Thank you so much for sharing your personal story. I am not sure if you read the rest of the thread, but we sorted it out and have had succesful PIV sex since. It helped talking about it all, including some underlying fears of his, sharing what we like, fantasies and so on. So things are very good now. We are still going strong. Stronger than ever, actually, so I am very happy!

    But yeah, I guess I can imagine such feelings can be scary or just weird if you haven't tried it before, or if it's usually not how it evolves for you. Thanks again for taking the time to share your input and good luck with everything to you and your boyfriend! ♡
     
    Katrina Rose likes this.

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