Natural Sexual Fantasies vs Porn-Induced Sexual Fantasies

You position this question as if there is some foundational "correct" view of sex and then it is "distorted" by what you see.
You then basically attempt to see if original "correct" view of sex can be "recovered", which I assume will make you feel like you are inline with "original" design.

Unfortunately there is no fundamental sexual correctness. Just by looking at cultures around the world you will see people do things that conflict with one another and yet each culture considers them to be correct.
Fundamental truth is male and female have sex, that is it. On top of this there is a layer of social behavior expectations, they explain what is acceptable and set expectations for what sexuality and sex will be like in this society.
We learn cultural sexual behaviors in order to remain "current" and appear as good partner to our sexual mate.

There is no ultimate truth, if you live in a city - you learn how to navigate and be effective in a city. You imagine places in the city and think in terms of city specific environments.
If you move to some remote village, you will overtime change how you think and you will begin to imagine things in context of a village.
Your environment and culture shapes how you think.

 

For me, sexual fantasies--i.e. mental scenarios created totally in my mind for the sake of arousal--involve women I know. When I was looking at P it was whatever chick I had chosen for that day but only in 2 dimensions. I'd watch her get F by man/men, get myself off and was done. I never totally absorbed myself into how her body might have felt, smelt or tasted. Even sound wasn't really a thing since they don't tend to talk much and the sex sounds are often edited in separately and may not even be their voice. She was a body, secondarily a face (or really just a mouth) and little more.

In my fantasy life, which is my new big battleground, it's actually more challenging because these are women I know in real life, mostly from work where there are literally about 8 women to every guy. I never have (nor will) F any of them but I know how they sound when they laugh, how they look when they're pissed off, I've seen the light in their eyes, I know how they smell and the things that are (and aren't) so great about their bodies. That makes the fantasies incredibly 3D / HD because I can create a really complete image in my mind, in all 5 senses plus an emotional connection, of what it would be like to be skin-on-skin with them. And no, I typically don't "remake" P scenes I watched in the past with women I know.

And yes, as a married man I do believe these fantasies are just as wrong as P in terms of being mentally and emotionally faithful to my wife. They are separate but equally ugly branches of the same poisonous tree.

It's kind of hard to explain and I hope this has not been too triggering but that's how I experience the difference.

 

So for example you might have a gangbang fantasy where the girl is a co-worker? Yeah that would disturb me too. Hang in there and just keep fighting the fight. You'll get back to the real, pure, deep down fully functioning you in time.

 

I think we are on the same page. If you have that distinction in your mind that some "fantasies" appear odd you are implying that you reject them. So they do not align with who you are and how you would build behavior.
You can imagine stabbing another person with a knife but majority of people will find doing some repulsing, and yet they will imagine it.
The fact that something enters your mind does not mean this is who you are, especially is this is clearly something you reject.

When we watch movie for example we generally align with the hero of the story, and yet we observe actions by both good and bad guy, both are entertaining, but in the end we choose one side.

 

I didn't properly see porn until I was 18, and I remember I had a lot of kinky fantasies when I was in high school around the age of 14. When I think of the stuff I was thinking about back then I would say they seem porn induced. But how could they be porn induced if I had only seen very occasional nude images of women in a magazine, or a movie that was on late at night that wasn't showing much at all?

Honestly I was having like anal gang bang fantasies when I was about 14, imagining I was the one boy and there was 5 girls and things like that, and this was before I had ever properly seen porn. Like I said I didn't start properly watching porn until I was 18 when I got my first laptop.

 

sexual fantasies are changed a lot by P use. A LOT.

I find the biggest difference is the dehuminization and forcefulness of them after P. Treating women like objects instead of people

I think there is such a thing as healthy fantasizies, I dont subscribe to the "sex positive anything goes" philosophy.

When I stop watching P my fantasizies include more kissing, hugging, conversations, etc. its nice.

 

I feel like there are fantasies I only get from reading/watching porn and erotic stories.

When I abstain I find that I just don’t have those fantasies anymore, and I find it liberating.

 

Again, you are trying to control things you do not have control over.
You act as if you control your mind and your thoughts or even your body. You do not.
You also seem to be worried by the fact that you enjoy things you believe you should not enjoy.

Your brain activity creates your perception, so brain activity is always primary and your perception is secondary, our brain creates awareness to gain insight in to what it creates and direct behavior.
Your job is to make decisions about what needs needs to be done, you have to make choices and direct behavior, not associate yourself with everything that is presented to you.

Sexually responding to things you think you "should not" is an odd proposition. Sexually arousing things - are sexually arousing - that is what they are, sexual arousal is a response. Like salvation when you smell food.
It would be odd if you found yourself conflicted about salivating over food you think is bad for you. I know this donut has too much sugar, and is bad for me but I am salivating over it, am I corrupt individual?
Stop trying to control things you cant. You keep feeling upset about "wanting to eat a donut"(something you can not control) and ignorant the fact that you can choose not to eat it(something you can controll)

Everyone has crazy thoughts, everyone. When you sip tea with your friend, he maybe thinking what would happen if a water melon fell from the 9th floor and impacted your head. We are all humans we all deal with same stuff.

 

I think she is wrong. Bad thoughts precede bad actions. If you constantly think in a selfish and greedy way, it will infect your brain. This is why most porn addicts regard girls and women as sex objects. Such bad thought patterns can and should be challenged.

 

I think you exposed real fundamental aspect of decision making when you said "You could have redirected your focus on something else and let those thoughts go" .
You have to take responsibility for the right part of the equation, for the things you can do. Distinction many people have problems making, they speak loudly on how addiction has "destroyed their life", "destroyed their health" and "destroyed their relationships" and how it is horrible and bad.
However they come short on expressing what they have done about it.
This is where I think NoFap approach fails, it presents itself just like "loose 50 pounds in 2 weeks" advertising.
Instead of exposing how people with ruined lives failed at taking actions to fix them, porn is suggested as core cause of the problems instead, and simple "just stop it" is proposed as way to success.
Good life is about choices you make, choices you make have to be made based on valid principles.

You make good choices not because no bad options are presented, no you make good choices because from all the bad and good options you have to choose from you choose one that brings about future you like.

If nothing else, I want to thank you for sharing, I learn as much in discussions like these as you do, because I have to examine my thinking and how it comes together, I wish you find meaning and feel more confident in good choices you make. Best of luck

 

I never ever found cuddling, snuggling, touching the woman/fingering arousing. It just didn't do anything for me. I blame that as a direct consequence of years of high porn consumption during my youth. I really hope 90 days of nofap will cure it.

Instead of that "softcore" stuff I developed lots of weird and rough fetishes. Really fucked up stuff.

Since a few years I quit rough/fetish porn and instead am only addicted to "regular" amateur porn. While I'm still an addict, many fetishes just vanished. The only preference that stayed with me (and will stay forever) is foot fetishism and this preference I already had before even being exposed to porn.

So to answer your question: Yes, I think the majority of fetishes/fantasies are porn-induced. Quit porn and most of them will vanish. Some will stay and that is simply a part of your sexuality.

 

Optimum, my therapist said the exact same thing. I think this might be from the therapy handbook of cliches. Its right up to a certain point. You need to not be policing your thoughts all the time, either. I think theres a balance.

i also find this is common in the "sex positive anything goes" culture. sort of a reaction to the victorian chaste asceticism from days of ye olde. Again, I think theres a balance.

magic05, i feel for you. It took a long time of nofap for that fo come back for me. Careful not to place too many expectations on the 90 day challenge. When it came back it was great though. Its one of the best parts of relationships, too. Women really like a guy that has more than just a hammer in his pants.

 

During my early teen years I would fantasise about simply having sex and cuddling with a girl after and was comfortable sharing these fantasies with my close friends. Now, I am WAY too afraid to share any of my fantasies because they always include something messed up e.g. the girls' parents are forced to watch or it's an incest thing where we're brother and sister. WAY too afraid to open up about these shameful fantasies I've had but it's indicative of what P and M will do to your mind.