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Reducing porn addiction via radical self forgiveness / disconnecting from porn induced emotions

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by DankRedSewer, May 19, 2021.

  1. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    I've been doing a lot of thinking for the past several years of my life about porn addiction and even addiction to fantasy (which is basically your brain showing you porn).

    It seems to me that the primary neural mechanism which drives sexual arousal is actually emotion. For young men since when you're young you haven't had a whole lot of sex and there's a lot of old fashioned guilt morals coming from our culture, the emotion comes from novelty and then guilt-based thrill. Once novelty wears off, guilt based thrill can stay in place and fan the flames of addiction for a long time.

    One approach I've been trying to take to reduce porn addiction is radical self forgiveness. That is, I *completely allow* myself to check porn sites quickly on my phone whenever I wish, and I try to apply a mindfulness technique. Instead of allowing myself to be caught up in the thrill or guilt of arriving on a porn site I try to remain calm and remind myself: "This isn't something I want. This is gross. Most of the experiences depicted are not authentic. What I actually want is to love a real woman." And then calmly put it away without having actually sought out a specific video for PMO.

    I still give in occasionally because I have certain specific tastes which every once in a while I stumble upon a video which presses all of my buttons at once, but even these are losing their appeal over time.

    Thus over time the allure of looking starts to go away because the thrilling emotions get calmed down and slowly replaced with a desire for real emotions with a real woman.

    Has anyone tried a similar path? I'm starting to practice mindfulness, separate from my nofap journey, using an app called Waking Up by Sam Harris. I think it may help.

    I'm thinking something like the above may be more effective long term than being 100% disciplined and never looking--because if you haven't dealt with the emotions themselves when you catch yourself wanting to look---it's more like pushing a beach ball under the surface of the water. Then relapse would be much stronger. This way you practice dealing with the emotions head on and dismantling them at the source. So in a way I am advocating not a lack of discipline but non-naive discipline. Naive discipline would be just resolving to stop looking cold turkey without addressing the emotions and experiences real time as they occur.
     
    learning likes this.
  2. learning

    learning Fapstronaut

    It sounds like an interesting strategy, but I've never tried it. It seems reasonable, and if it seems to be working then I would stick with it.
     
  3. It is also possible someone ends up not acting out at all, just not with the emotional implications of cold turkey. I'm sure for some it will sound unrealistic, and it most likely is for them. It doesn't mean anyone is better than anyone else or even one approach is better in an unqualified way but there is a question of what's appropriate for who at a given time in their process IMO. And yes, I understand some people can't entertain the thought and it might be interpreted dishonestly by the addict mind.

    In a way the bottom line rule based thinking is necessary if someone is not as mindful, because if you are mindful you can potentially, in principal see it leading up to PMO. That said there's a lot to be mindful of and some aspect of a persons mind may also catch them off guard.

    But I want to go back to forgiveness.. You're talking about giving yourself permission to do anything freely, rather than forgiving a deed after the fact.. This gets into a fairly abstract area, because you need a self to forgive. I'm thinking of an article that was arguing forgiveness (as a concept) is not Buddhist. While we are only talking about mindfulness I think the relevance is it's a completely different view of the self, you can judge a self as good or bad, but the concept here is the self is illusory and not really a bona fide thing. Just walking through the logic of it in thinking out loud here.. then it ends up being a matter of just action/karma.

    Okay I'll reel it in a bit here - in the context of what you've said I guess it may be a matter of not identifying with the impulses that's a part of the karma. It's just there, and doesn't have to be acted upon physically. And on the point about emotional significance, it may be the difference between meaningful emotions vs. just somewhat random ones or stuff triggered by some kind of porn or porn like fantasy which may be a matter of the crappy karma of lowest denominator collective consciousness which we choose not to engage in.
     
  4. I wish you luck on your path but it sounds to me as if you're looking for a way to justify your continued porn consumption.
     
  5. outkasted

    outkasted Fapstronaut

    I don't buy junk food. The reason why is because as soon as I open the box of cookies, I eat every cookie in the box. So I remove the temptation by not buying it. I've recently done the same with craft beer since if I buy a 6 pack of IPA it will get consumed quickly.

    I know how I'm wired. Your approach might work for you. For me it would be catastrophic.
     
  6. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    It might seem that way to you, but I do not believe this premise is correct. Rather the mechanism is dopamine cravings. And the things that give the most intense dopamine surges are cocaine, heroin and porn. It is as simple as that Mr Sewer.
     
  7. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    I think the key is realizing that so many things in the human condition are not black and white or binary, they're a matter of degree. What I'm finding is that if I treat this issue as black and white for myself, I ignore the continuous experience in between and ignore the need to confront the problematic emotions/urges when they occur. Like I said, like holding a beach ball underwater. With this approach, I am slowly dismantling the source of the problem while it happens. Yes, I do still PMO occasionally, but the amount of time I'm able to put between each lapse increases over time. Especially now that I have a real relationship on the horizon, because what I wish to do is save my energy for her and not waste it. I have realized that the sex drive is fragile and not infinite, especially as I age, and if I want to enjoy it the right way, with a real woman, I must store the energy.

    I'm definitely not justifying PMO, I'm just observing that for me, this approach has been slowly dismantling what causes me to do it in the first place.

    Put it another way; if I had the choice between quitting cold turkey and then some years down the road lapsing with a massive binge, or simply reducing use slowly over time to smaller and smaller percentage with no massive binges, I'd pick the latter.

    Obviously as many of you do I recognize that no one approach is a one size fits all; I'm just stating what works for me. It helps me to simply be on this forum and benefit from the mutually shared energy and goal of reducing porn usage in my life, regardless of precisely how we're each going about it.
     
  8. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    I should give another example from my background. When I was 9, I was randomly obsessed with cigarette smoking even though nobody in my family smoked. I pretended to smoke constantly. This horrified my mom, but instead of coming down on me harshly with judgement and discipline, what she did was buy me a pack of cigarettes and have me try one, safely at home, so that I would realize how gross and unpleasant it is. That fixed my curiosity instantly. I think it just taught me that being gentle and loving with oneself may be more effective than punishment, in the long run.
     
  9. I've heard of that approach of buying the cigarettes. I think it makes sense on the level of not making something a big secret, so yes you can take away the power around it in that sense.

    Of course nobody will argue with the positivity of wanting to be kind to yourself, but that's not the same as indulging. Just generally speaking, indulging less is still indulging, it's a matter of intention rather than degree or amount. It is possible that someone could do what you're suggesting and each time, instead of having the premise that's a no go just take some time to think about it or even talk to themselves, and actually end up remembering they don't want to do it.

    So I would ask do we care about ourselves enough to give ourselves the time and attention, rather than just saying I allow myself to do whatever I want? I think there's also a question of whether you're seeing the long term perspective, or even a matter of 10-20 minutes. Not fighting yourself, but really say okay, lets really look at this out of care.
     
  10. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    I may be being misinterpreted a little bit here and there. I'm not saying allowing myself to indulge, but simply allowing myself _to visit porn sites_ and then once I arrive at the site, deal with the emotion at that point. In other words, slowly training myself to not be aroused, inspired or motivated to actually THEN go watch a video and PMO. Instead the goal is to allow myself to see the thumbnails---and then calmly talk myself out of it, breaking the mental cycle which results in going further.

    i.e. transitioning from landing on the site and getting that thrill or adrenaline rush to landing on the site and reacting: uhh...ew. this is gross. and not getting aroused at all.
     
  11. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    I've been intrigued by the discipline of taking cold showers lately as well. The initial reaction without training is to vocalize, tense up, breathe hard and flail your arms. But with training you eventually do not react to the stimulus at all. I'm kind of saying the same thing--learning not to react to a stimulus when it happens rather than avoiding the stimulus altogether.
     
  12. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    That is still porn. They are snapshots of people having sex. I cannot see how this is healthy in any way DankRedSewer. o_O
     
  13. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    Yes, but if I train myself so that my reaction upon landing on the site is the same as viewing a pile of garbage and then I promptly leave having experienced no temptation or arousal, I view this as progress from the past where I'd have the compulsion to visit a site, see thumbnails, and instantly become highly aroused and tempted to go searching further. And then the end result is that ultimately, the compulsion to even visit the site fades after a while because I am dealing with the root of the emotion itself, at its source, when the stimulus is present.
     
  14. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I understand what you are saying. But I believe it is your dopamine-addicted brain rationalising. It is your call of course...
     
  15. DankRedSewer

    DankRedSewer Fapstronaut

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    This is exactly what I'm saying---I'm reducing the dopamine hit itself, within the brain itself. In other words, the problem is inside my head, the problem is not the porn itself. There's no cause-effect mechanism which forces me to experience a dopamine hit when I view porn thumbnails---that's me producing the dopamine hit. I'm training myself to experience no thrill from landing on the site, making it easier to avoid going further, and further reducing the temptation to even go there in the first place. I'm training myself to enjoy the sensation of storing my sexual energy for longer periods of time. The longest I've gone is probably three to four weeks, hoping to do even better this time.
     

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