Do You Think This Phrase is a Myth or Reality?

I read something once related to addiction that had a profound effect on me:

"Abstinence is not the same thing as control."

Every day I choose not to jerk off or to take a drink. The reason I make this choice is because I'm powerless over my addictions.

 

I've seen these debates before and it ultimately ends up nitpicking over semantics.

As it relates to your original statement (and thread title) I guess the answer would depend on how one views addiction. Somebody who believes addicts are sick people in need of rehabilitation would probably have a different answer from somebody who believes addicts are selfish people with loose morals and lousy impulse control.

 

We do have choice but addicts are powerless over their addictions

 

Addicts must have some level of control though.

If an addict never had any level of control then they would never be able to cut down, stay clean etc.

Many guys on here are addicts, and they get good streaks and a lot of time away from PMO, porn and artificial sexual stimulation.

If they never had any control at all, then they wouldn't ever get any streaks or decent amounts of time away from porn and artificial sexual stimulation.

 

You are always in the driver's seat.

However, once you are binging on your addiction, you are in the driver's seat driving on ice. With slicks and a RWD.

 

false, how could anyone quit if it was true?

 

I personally think it's a rare thing for self will to win over addiction, there are some who have so it's not impossible, but it's very unlikely. I believe I am powerless, no matter what I have tried over the past 6 years of recovery it has fallen flat. Only now using the SAA programme of recovery have I found some sanity, for I have given my way up and accepted a way that has quite frankly helped 1000s of people in recovery. Ultimately thoguh we are never recovered, it's a life long thing and that is the ahrd thing to truly accept.

 

Maybe you don't have control when you're in the midst of active addiction, but recovery is about gaining control of your addiction, by learning about your triggers, for example, or behavioural cues, your psychological complexes, etc. The more you have recovered, the more you have control.

I think the organisations that propagate this notion that you are powerless over your addiction use it as a tool to make their clients psychologically dependent on continued membership, which might work for people who need to submit before a "higher power," however defined.

 

"The controller is the controlled."

There is no control in the realm of thought, which is the mechanical, of the material. It is in the realm of thought that addictions thrive. So, in one sense, yes, addicts don't have control in indulging in the substance, whatever it may be. But, the reason why this is is because we have become super focused on the realm of thought, on the brain. It is suggested especially in western societies that this is where everything happens, i.e. of the the brain. Essentially, life comes from the brain, which isn't true.

We as a society have become too identified with the flesh. Our physical bodies have been the center of our attention for millennia. Consequently, we have the proliferation of pornographic type entertainment (and a plethora of other things, of course). This belief is why we don't have "control". "We", as in most people in the world nowadays. There is some type of addiction driving someone at any time. Even the want to go out and go do extreme activities is a type of addiction. We probably wouldn't like that comparison, and we certainly would not see them as lacking control, but the point remains.

When we are lost in the sphere of thought we certainly have no control, of the thoughts that is. Any notion of control is just another fragment of thought, along that same vein any notion of "lack of control" is another fragment of thought. Again, "the controller is the controlled".

Thoughts will operate everyday (60,000+ everyday), there is no way around it. Imagine trying to control 60,000 things everyday. You would get exhausted, and quickly! Indeed, that is what happens. Thoughts of: whether this is controllable or not, thoughts of whether one can stop, thoughts of how it might feel without the addiction, wondering how I might act in front of screen, wondering if I will get aroused by this and that, and so on and so forth. And, you start to believe that this is you. These things come and they are a function of the past, they are impressions of what has been said before. Because we put a lot of stock in knowledge (thoughts) we become blind to what is happenING. We stay in the past, which means we are dead. If you only exist in the past that is the definition of being dead. When you accept that the addiction has a hold of you you've accepted death, because addictions are of the past.

So, yes, when you are stuck in the past you are as good as powerless. We don't have control of the addiction, because it is a dead thing, you cannot change a dead thing. We just have to look at a different direction...life. Life is the opposite of addiction. Life is where connection is, life is dynamic, it is far beyond what one who is lost in addiction can see. But, that doesn't mean you can't get there. Just loosen the grip and see how that life within you is in constant communion of the life around.

Suppose there is a huge crisis that changes your whole life, maybe a natural disaster. Everything is wiped out, electronics are no longer going to be available to you for a long time. You will have to adapt and it will happen. This is when life at its peak because contemplating whether or not you will want to watch P won't even enter your mind. I am saying, we are capable, the brain is capable. Step away from the realm of thought and experience life.

 

The more addicted you are to something the less will power you have. It varies on the degree of compulsiveness you have towards the object of your desire.

 

It would mean choosing to control what you CAN control. Consider everything that the "self" involves, can you control every aspect of your biology? (and do you need to?) So the statement control your self is far reaching. Even 12 Step recognizes this in terms of the content of the Serenity Prayer. You don't have to be religious to understand it is about a distinction between things you can change vs. things you can't, and of course that implies some degree of control.

I think we have to be REALLY careful to distinguish between philosophy and human beings suffering. Recently there was a thread on free will and of course the internet is going to have a lot of those. An academic discussion tends to pay no attention to people suffering and does little to help their situation. Even having made this statement I think when people get caught up in that they will readily ignore it, especially since you're typing stuff on the computer not sitting in a room with people who have obviously had a huge impact to their lives and loved ones.

I don't know the entire thinking with the choice "model" of addiction but I'm guessing it is like GR said, it's a moralistic perspective. Also, people who don't have an addiction over the specific issue (I would have reservations that they have no compulsive tendencies whatsoever, perhaps the tendency to judge others?) tends to think their experience is the same as others and their relationship to the particular behavior/substance is the same, and of course IF that's the case then it's the simplistic answer of "choose better." The same person might cry a river if you're talking about something that is hard for them and would not be as readily to tell you some generic canned advice. Point is the subjective experience of people are not the same, both mentally and physically/even physiologically.

I've been part of non-12 Step organizations that does not have this as part of their premise, specifically stating it is about empowerment and also noting people don't have to identify as "addict." But to be fair 12 Step is a grassroots volunteer organization and there is no clients as such, though I guess some places have that as their exclusive framework rather than be inclusive of it. I also don't believe there is an agenda to promote the idea for membership, more of a mental attachment if anything. To unpack it, I think it is important to recognize the intent is about honesty. People simply don't say "I am 95% powerless, and while I have some control that's not enough" - nor are they in any real position to quantify it if we want to be precise.

It is also not necessarily about "higher" or submission. If you consider that the individual simply does not control most things in both themselves and the environment without a higher power as traditionally defined, the power is simply distributed and an admission in terms of not having control isn't dependent on that point, it's simply a fact. From a systematic/ecological perspective of course you would have to look at details, but I find it interesting that there is the quality or experience of awe, which I think merits more than pigeonholing it as an "emotional experience" without distinguishing it from other emotions, which has to do with elements in nature working in a harmonized, cooperative manner. Apparently many atheists and scientists are keen on the quality of awe and some researchers note it tends to inspire systematic thinking. After all, with scientific discoveries it isn't that they have to make it systematic, they discover nature has a natural order in the first place. It is questionable whether it should be framed as "power" even of course, maybe simply as order.

But to bring it back to the original subject, I suppose it's a matter of whether control or choice by the agency of the individual is even needed or the right way to frame it - or whether it's more a matter of the bigger picture and the collective dynamic. I believe if people really starts looking at the phenomenon of cross addiction they have to come to the inevitable conclusion that this systematic view is necessary. While one need not get technical I think you can't help but start noticing details ("take an interest in your fellows" for those in 12 Step) and also some understanding of how things function rather than an abstinence only perspective. As it is with things like food addiction and behavioral issues it is about how you do it and not even how much. (you can eat less donuts but if that's all you eat it's not going to work well either)

 

This might not have to be complicated. If you’re an addict and have no control over yourself, you might as well not try to quit.

We all have the choice. It’s in the present moment, and yours only to make, no one else’s. Don’t let anyone talk you out of that power.

 

Let's say I have an urge right now. I have a choice to indulge in porn or walk away. If I decide to relapse I have lost control of my will power and I will binge until im satisfied. Will power can only take me so far if I dont change my habits. Learning new ways to live without porn is my goal. Accepting i have a problem has been a nice start. Just because I have 3 months doesn't mean I'm cured and I could watch porn or masturbate again. It won't end well. Just knowing I can't watch porn anymore or masturbate helps me like an alcoholic who knows he can't drink. Whatever it takes for me to stay clean.

 

I think it's about how difficult it is to make those choices. I choose not to give in to my addiction every day. Sometimes it is easy. But usually it requires a great deal of effort on my part. This is addiction.

If I were not addicted, I could just make this choice once and forget about it.