If I can quit porn, is it possible to go back to being straight?

or I mean don't agree but agree!?

 

I don’t agree with most of it, but you’re in the right ballpark with a few things. Think of it this way. Your mental health is like a collection of raw ingredients. They aren’t inherently good or bad, they’re just parts that can make food(ie your overall mental health). You can make plenty of good food without a recipe (using mindfulness and positive self talk), but you can get better results with one (ie using a counselor or therapist). The ingredients (your baseline mental health) just are what they are. When your born you have a set of ingredients and your culture, experiences, family/friends, etc contribute to them, but sometimes ingredients are bad and they takes skill and effort to make them palatable. You can have the best kitchen and tools in the world but with bad ingredients it’s going to be a lot of work to make something tasty. Mental health is a lot of making the best with what you have and accepting that there is a limit to how much control you really have. Sometimes you need outside help, sometimes you need medication, sometimes good support systems are enough, sometimes they aren’t. It’s like any other addiction; it’s complicated. People like to find easy reasons to explain it like bad parenting or not being mentally strong enough, but it’s not that simple. Addiction changes the chemical make up of your brain in a lot of ways. An alcoholic doesn’t want to be an alcoholic, they can’t help it. They aren’t a bad person, they are a sick person that needs help and support.

 

I think some perspective is in order.

1.No healthy philosophy, religious or ethical code ever said you are defined by your passions. In fact, for most of history the great religions and personal philosophies have said the opposite. Your desires =You is an idea that arose in the 1920s under quacks like Freud "Oh you're repressing your true self". So the entire question of defining oneself that way needs a perspective shift, IMOP. Anyone - ant that's most ex porn addicts here - knows the dark road that giving into those desires takes you. So the first more important question to ask is who do you want to be? What do you value?

2. The status quo about 'born that way' or innate is there for political reasons - at the very least there is no reason spectrum can't shift. I am not saying it is easy - but we know that PMO use can escalate to things people would never imagine themselves into - but with the right 'therapies' and working on self esteem, etc. I think changes are possible.

- google the mouse utopia experiment - and the effects of modern society on men - (toxins, plastics, overcrowding etc) - the more you can adapt paleo living the more likely I think healing can occur.

Your Brain On Porn is a great resource for studies about this:
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ybo...to-question-assumptions-about-sexuality-2012/

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ybo...d-the-brain/are-sexual-tastes-immutable-2012/
Lesson? High levels of dopamine can powerfully rewire the brain and alter sexual tastes. (More recently, researchers have shown that conditioning with repeated injections of oxytocin and cohabitation also caused males to show a preference for other males several days later – even if offered receptive females at the same time.)

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/reb...oragers-and-ngandu-farmers-of-central-africa/
…Another reason we conducted a study of sexual behavior was that several years ago we asked Aka men about homosexuality and masturbation and were surprised that they were not aware of these practices, did not have terms for them and how difficult it was to explain both sexual practices. They laughed as we tried to explain and describe the sexual activities. We thought that maybe they were shy or embarrassed individuals, but this would have been uncharacteristic of the Aka we had known so long. …

It was difficult to explain self-sti"
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ybo...tion-articles/weird-masturbation-habits-2011/
However, as the Hewletts document in their 2010 study, Western sexual patterns, including our frequent masturbation, are unusual by cross-cultural standards. The Hewletts arrived at this conclusion in part by studying the sexual behavior of two central African cultures. They were astonished to learn that neither the Aka nor the Ngandu were aware of masturbation:

They laughed as we tried to explain and describe the sexual activities. We thought that maybe they were shy or embarrassed individuals, but this would have been uncharacteristic of the Aka we had known so long. …

It was difficult to explain self-stimulation to the Aka. They found it unusual and said it may happen far away in Congo, but they did not know it. A specific word did not exist for it. We asked men, in particular, about masturbating before they were married or during the post-partum sex taboo and all indicated this did not occur. … [emphasis added]

 

My only issue with some of the things you listed is the extrapolation of the findings to the broader population. One study is on rats, which is interesting but very limited in application to humans. The other is of less than 75 people in a hunter/gatherer culture with limited access to outside groups, which makes its internal and external validity very, very weak. They are interesting findings but not at all reliable or valid. Neither study is intended to be applied to humans as a whole or human nature in general. The purpose of an ethnographic study is limited to the group it is studying. This is more evidence of correlation not equating to causation. They are interesting studies but they are being misconstrued and taken out of context.

 

Right and we have a whole lot of 'born that way' evidence?
Do you at least acknowledge that highly politicized nature of the psychology field?

I would think if you were genuinely curious or less politicized you would pretty intrigued and fascinated that they don't masturbate or have homosexuals - but your first reaction is to brush it off. Think about that, because it says a lot about you.

Most of users here recognize that we have to do a lot of self experimentation, self exploration and look for information from a vast array of sources because establisment views on sexuality are highly politicized.

 

The first comment is baiting, but feel free to do your own research. It’s your responsibility as a critical reader to evaluate political bias and I would agree that many studies do have political biases. That’s part of why understanding the limits of the study you’re reading is critical to interpreting it. The American Association for the Advancement of Science has a great guide for improving your understanding of scientific studies and articles. I recommend looking at psychological and psychiatric studies in humans specifically rather than ethnographic, anthropological, or animal studies. The scope of the studies you posted aren’t applicable to groups that aren’t part of that study. One looks at how manipulating conditions and brain chemistry of rats impacts their sexuality. People are not rats and the authors of this study do not imply you can apply this to people, just that it can be used to further develop hypothesis. Hypotheses aren’t proofs.

Personally, I don’t really care about if 75 people in a hunter/gatherer culture I have no connection to report they aren’t inclined to masturbate or have homosexuality. The propose of ethnography is to look at one group in their context and how they respond. It is not a study intended to be applied to humanity as a whole. I am not studying or interacting in any way with the communities studied so it doesn't pertain to me. If I had a client from that background it might.

No one can escape their biases, but that’s part of knowing how to interact with data. I know where I’m looking for my own confirmation bias etc, if I wasn’t sure I’d read more before making any assumptions or consult another source that is more credible.

 

Right. So for example, if you were a nutritionist and found they had no instances of diabetes, heart disease, etc you'd have no interest in looking at their diet, because, what could you possible learn? It's just 75 hunter gather's after all. Why even think about it. Nothing to see here, move along.
Like I said, it says a lot about you.

 

sounds like they had good parenting and support systems lol

 

One theory is they simply see sex as the means to create children. That's it - they aren't pounded 24/7 with messages in mass media and from 'experts' in the pseudo-science of psychology that unbridgled sexuality for pleasure is healthy and that if you're not getting sexually aroused all the time something is 'wrong' with you.

So the find joy, pleasure, exaltation in other ways. They have deep community, their anxiety levels despite being in what we would consider poverty, is much lower. But apparently we shouldn't be interested in them.

 

Clearly, you’re not interested in having any kind of good faith discussion. No, if I was an anthropologist studying the sexual habits of hunter gatherer communities in sub-Saharan Africa then I would care. I am not. I’m an interning novice counselor. I’m not an expert in anything but I know how to read and interpret data.

 

Again, you’re not having a good faith discussion so this is my last response. One: the “theory” your referencing isn’t a theory, it’s a hypothesis. It isn’t a proof. You seem to want to believe that there is a way that society can exist without masturbation or homosexuality and that this tiny observation and interview ethnography supports that idea. Nothing I say will change your mind. Good luck.

 

I kind of feel like I am talking to a big pharma rep who isn't interested in anything but the meds they want to sell.

...With no interest in why something might be working or not. It's not about reading data its about being curious to why something might be the case.
At the very least I see why so called counseling and therapy is in such a sorry state. I am sorry (truly) if that sounds harsh, but it your attitude echos similar attitudes in the medical field. I literally healed myself of an condition that medical 'experts' wanted to simply prescribe (expensive) meds for - but adapting diets and supplements and psychical therapy techniques that they don't even bother to study let alone be curious about.

 

if you would look it up in any dictionary you would see my use of it is correct. Like many words it has multiple definitions. I was using it colloquially.
Talk about bad faith; One of the most common logical fallacies is appeal to authority.

 

I personally feel your one of those "I red(read) it in a book so its irrifutible otherwise" types and would be nearly absolutely LOST without it. not the type to think for one's self after information had been given to you.. only depending on the source would you accept the information. (which is actually harmful to yourself and others given your credentials}

 

Clearly one does. You simply don't seem to be interested in it - and if you actually read the whole article:
" as the Hewletts document in their 2010 study, Western sexual patterns, including our frequent masturbation, are unusual by cross-cultural standards. The Hewletts arrived at this conclusion in part by studying the sexual behavior of two central African cultures."
It's not just one. In fact it seems be the 'norm' in hunter gather tribes.

So why are you here? I see you have a day counter. You stumble on information about what appears to be superhuman sexual self control and grit your teeth and instead of saying "hey that's interesting.. what can I learn or try or think about from that' you literally try to dismiss it. Completely lack of curiosity and one can even detect a bit of hostility.

If I had listened to 'experts' about for example PMO i would never even think it was possible to go two weeks without masturbation - let alone over 100 days which I have done multiple times. I don't say that to show off- the opposite- I still struggle - but only by following successes here, experimenting, trying what I think might work have I been able to make any progress at all. If I went to a 'counselor' with an attitude like yours I would still be on day 0, literally.

I say this sincerely and I am sincerely sorry if it sounds harsh but it doesn't sound like you really want to help anyone, let alone yourself.

 

You seem to want to believe that there is a way that society can exist without masturbation or homosexuality and that this tiny observation and interview ethnography supports that idea. Nothing I say will change your mind. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
what???? humanity would and could literally go on without... that's exactly what I meant by thinking for yourself.. I hope you meant something else by this because this exact response show a lack of forward thinking...

 

I hope everyone here has a good day mentally and physically.. all of you are capable of amazing things if you put your mind to it... a courageous heart.. consistency and hope for the future I wish you all the best and success in your endeavors

 

I’ve certainly been here and know how others feel with regards to this issue.

At school, during the era when I was masturbating regularly but not watching porn (see my introductory post about my full story), one of my male friends and I started to experiment together out of curiosity, starting by just masturbating together, and a couple of times we masturbated each other. However, things did escalate and once we each sucked the other’s balls, and once in a weak and pathetic urge, I asked him to have sex with me and positioned myself for him to enter me. Fortunately I was too tight and neither of us thought about lubrication with saliva, so I was saved from potentially making one of the biggest mistakes in my life I ever could have made. He then got his GCSEs and left after that and for a long time those dark thoughts and acts were buried in my mind, forgotten and ignored. However, fast forward about 5 years, and after being tortured by porn addiction for the previous three years, I became drawn to gay porn, and the gay bugbear reared its ugly head once more. As well as being aroused by the memories of that experimentation back in my school years, I also started to have fantasies about having gay sex with one of my best friends from university, which caused more havoc with my plans to find a girlfriend and made me worry that I might have a homosexual aspect of my character. Yet despite all of this, I have never looked at men and rated them by physical attractiveness - I have always only ever done this with girls. Both of the friends I have had thoughts about were average-looking guys like me and I when in my right mind have only every viewed them as friends, to be respected for their personalities but nothing more, and even when thinking of them sexually they are the only two males in the world I have ever had sexual thoughts about. I have never seen them as people I’ve wanted to kiss or enter a long-term relationship with, again I’ve only ever wanted this with a girl in my heart of hearts. Therefore, it’s pretty clear that all of this has been caused by my masturbation and porn addictions, and if I can escape these, I shall return to being the straight man I was before all of this, as I will no longer need to satisfy an eternal appetite for depravity.

I agree with @Meshuga @ivanhoe and others in that it is not our past or our darkest fetishes that make us who we are, it is our choices and who we want to be in the future. We are human, and we are blessed with a conscience and higher intelligence to help advise us when not to follow our basest instincts. In my case, I have been strong enough to decide to embark on the NoFap path and to aim to live a happy, healthy heterosexual life with a girl who will always love me and care for me just as I will always love and care for her. That is my choice, and that is what I keep in mind whenever I feel a craven urge to finger myself anally or think about a homosexual experience. Between this, my avoidance of PMO in my current streak and talking to all of you about this, I have begun to feel a lot stronger and more confident inside, as I am now sure of what I want once again, and I hope others will too when they read this.

 

Exactly - and this has been the accept wisdom until modern psychology which always had a political bent.

I wish you the best of luck - remember that there are dark forces out there that don't want you to have this and will tell you it isn't even possible and you shouldn't even want it. But we know it's possible. Seek examples of people who have.

I don't have all the answers - not even close - but I would no more put my trust in my personal well being in 'professional' 'experts' anymore than I would put my personal well being in the hands of pharmaceutical companies.