I am looking for some insight and advice into my situation. I originally attempted Nofap in November 2016, and quickly went into a flatline. I only fully quit PMO by January 2018 (I had a girlfriend and justified sexting as not counting as PMO a lot in this in-between time, but of course the brain doesn't know the difference). I then remained in a relationship until July 2018, and was having regular sex with her throughout this time, which I am sure was an obstacle to the rewiring and recovery process. Once I ended the relationship, I went hardmode from July 2018, until November 2020 (with the exception of having sex once in September 2018), so 28 months hardmode. My symptoms did gradually begin to subtly subside in the last few months of this, but by no means did they completely go, I still had some very distinct symptoms by the end of this stint of hardmode. In November 2020 I found a new girlfriend as I fell in love with the girl (the fact that I could have feelings for her was evidence of my improvement) and felt it was time to try being in a relationship again. However, we began to have sex regularly and this has lead to the worsening of my PAWS again. I opened up to her about my situation in February 2021 and we reduced the amount of sex we had to once a week, and then to none at all in June. However, this has not been a sustainable model for the relationship, and so this October we returned to weekly sex. I explained the whole situation to doctor back in summer and he prescribed me sertralline, an SSRI. The cause of a lot of the symptoms I experience are undeniably due to a lack of serotonin, and so an SSRI may be the solution I am looking for. A key, consistent symptom I've had throughout my PAWS is that I have had a very strong, throbbing pulse that I am able to feel throughout my body, precisely the same symptom I experienced when I was coming down off of MDMA in August 2016 (Serotonin plays a key role in regulating blood pressure, and my blood pressure has consistently been around 145/55 in this time - high systolic and low diastolic, hence being able to feel the pulse acutely). I have refrained from taking the SSRI so far as I'm scared that it will prevent me from rebooting and that it will damage my brain further, however I am speculating that my issue is purely a serotonin one and not a PAWS one, and that withdrawing triggered a serotonin problem (perhaps connected to my episode with MDMA?), and that it may be the only thing that allows me to have a healthy sexual relationship with someone. The fact that I have found no other case of people suffering from this permanent, very strong pulse feeling in PAWS/withdrawal is some evidence to me that my issue may not entirely be due to PAWS, but rather an underlying serotonin issue. Further evidence for this is that throughout I have still been able to get an erection and have sex the vast majority of occasions, and I am able to feel a libido and get aroused with my girlfriend. I now don't know what to do. Should I abandon this relationship and this girl I really feel I could build a good life with in the hopes of completing a full reboot through hardmode, in the hopes of experience the sudden 'snap' out of a long flatline/PAWS that is often described here (namely Sikreodds97 and a handful of other very similar stories), or do I stay with her and take the SSRI sertralline and see if that elliviates my symptoms and allows us to have a happy and healthy, sexual relationship? Was 28 months not enough? Had I held on a little longer would I have experienced the sudden rebirth out of the flatline? Surely after this long persuing a relationship can't be unhealthy for me? Thanks for reading!
I'm by no means an expert on relationships or sex but what stands out to me is that you went for 28 months. This is a crazy length of time to see only a small amount of improvement and it seems to me that maybe the issue is not entirely being caused by PMO/sex? As far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but sex triggers different hormonal responses when compared to PMO. Having sex as often as you feel comfortable with shouldnt logically be triggering this kind of problem for you. I think you are into something in thinking this issue is serotonin related, or it might be something else entirely. As an example, purely anecdotally, I knew a guy who abstained for a year or so and didnt feel any better, and it turned out his symptoms were not caused by PMO at all, but by a chronic illness he didnt know he had.
What do you mean by PAWS? And more specifically what symptoms are you experiencing after having sex? Are any of your questions answered in the YBOP FAQ? Porn FAQs
Stop taking the SSRIs (slowly taper it off though) and dont give up on your relationship Endure the symptoms, It will get better with time (and you also dont need to be fully healed to feel good btw) I almost hopped on SSRIs too but thank god I didnt, my healing sped up alot around the end of my PAWS, and thats what happens with most people (I think thats the "snap" you were referring to?)
Also, I highly doubt sex will halt your progress, but only make you feel bad for a day or two I strongly believe that PAWS can also cause POIS while you are recovering
This is an interesting thing I've been thinking about with sex being different to PMO and triggering different hormonal responses, because one of the things I've noticed as I've had more and more sex is that the lines between sex and PMO seem to blur in my head, to the point where sex feels like a similar type of dopaminergic indulgence. I feel I need to try and train myself to see sex differently and have it light up different neuronal pathways to the ones I've deeply enforced through years of PMO. It's difficult though because sometimes its just like, sexual excitement is sexual excitement, ya know?
I haven't actually taken the SSRIs, I'm just considering them. The problem is that having sex with my girlfriend is making my symptoms worse and worse, and is certainly proving to be a barrier to the healing of my PAWS. I am happy despite not being recovered, my life is a good one, however it could certainly be a lot better without these symptoms I'm experiencing. How long was your PAWS btw? and do you mean that the healing seemed to get exponentially faster towards the end of it?
A lot of this could be solved by not just engaging in sex, but also sexual intimacy. Take things slowly, focus a lot on your partner, really take the time to make the event special as opposed to it just being masturbation with another person happening to be there. Not saying you arent already doing this, also not trying to be presumptuous, but it's always worth a shot.
Lower levels of confidence, less socially fluent, smaller more constricted flaccid penis, less ability to feel general attraction, the throbbing of my pulse becomes stronger - these are basically my PAWS symptoms and they are the same symptoms that worsen after having sex. Unfortunately I haven't come across anything particularly relevant to my situation on the YBOP FAQ, although there is a ton of good information there.
I hope you are right, but the past 11 month in which I have been on and off sexually active with my girlfriend my symptoms have worsened to some degree I believe, at least they haven't improved. Potentially I may have developed a form of POIS I guess, although I've never had the stuffy nose, sore throat physical illness symptoms after sex, but certainly some physiological symptoms like my increased pulse strength, constricted/tight flaccid etc. Could I ask if you have returned to sex since recovering from PAWS, and if you have, has this reignited any PAWS symptoms? Thanks for your thoughts and input btw.
You're right this is absolutely the approach to take with my sexual encounters, and I do make a big effort to do it this way, and I do feel these sorts of encounters seem to not heighten my symptoms so much afterwards - however sometimes in the heat of the moment the lines can get a little blurry for me I think. I'm trying to foster this mindset as much as I can when I comes to intimacy with her, but sometimes it feels like I'm using the same old pathways that lead to my addiction. I guess I just need to keep working on it and hopefully my brain plasticity will allow for changes to take place over time.
Psychosomatic response is extremely powerful. My therapist once said to me there is no such thing as "In your head" that if you feel something, it's real to at least some extent. Years of PMO can make you truly feel like sex is having the same effect on you, and all you can do is work on it slowly over time.
dont worry about symptoms getting worse, I didnt have sex through all of my reboot and my anxiety + sleep disturbance still only kept getting worse, even when everything was starting to get better and I thought "Oh, maybe Im already healed". Thats just paws's non-linear recovery nature and happens to everyone. What matters is that it will eventually end, and way faster than you think, even if It has to get worse before it
Dude, you have to learn how to postpone or even avoid ejaculating completely. It’s the ejaculation that’s making you sick, that’s normal. It’s possible to have sex without ejaculation, that is the only solution
Hmm did you check out these articles? They seem pretty relevant Does post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) occur with porn addiction? Rebooting with a partner: What about sex? Women: Does Orgasm Give You A Hangover? Men: Does Frequent Ejaculation Cause A Hangover? What causes post-orgasmic symptoms? How do I know when I’m back to normal? Porn Gave Me Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome I'm not sure how "strict" your reboot was, but if it was a pretty easygoing one you might not be healed yet. Additionally, you might need to ease your brain into the intensity of sex and intimacy. Do a 30 day reboot, but instead of having sex right after, start off with just kissing/cuddling, and then if you don't experience PAWS in your normal timeframe, progress down this list one at a time: kiss/cuddle and include sleeping over kiss/cuddle in just underwear, no direct stimulation though kiss and explore each other's bodies with hands and mouths and lots of body-body contact, without giving special attention to each other's genitals, just explore and appreciate your bodies kiss stimulate each other's genitals with hands, do not try to reach orgasm, just focus on each other and let whatever sensations you feel exist, stop when either of you are tired or satsified, with or without orgasm kiss stimulate each other's genitals with hands and mouths, same as before, do not try to reach orgasm, just focus on each other and let whatever sensations you feel exist, stop when either of you are tired or satsified, with or without orgasm now try having sex, do not try to orgasm, be slow and connective, be in the moment, do what feels good, but don't worry about cumming, just let it happen if it does, if not just stop when tired, when your erection goes down, or you're satisfied Orgasm may be giving you a hangover because you're not ready or healed yet. Try a shorter hard mode reboot, and then ease into sex without trying or expecting to orgasm. This should help out a lot. I also felt the way you feel when I first started having sex, and I think it's just because it's really intense for our brains. It's literally a hangover aha. I could not have sex more than like once a week. But it goes away the more you do it, you kinda develop a tolerance haha.
