i came across an article about porn use and narcissism. It claims that porn users are narcissistic. I can only relate this back to what I see in my husband. I don't feel he is a narcissist, but as they say, love is blind. I do see some traits that have come out over the years that are classic narcissistic traits. Self absorbed, self involved, quick to lay blame on others (namely me), sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, etc. I wonder if the porn addiction has created/emphasized these traits. My feeling is yes. Which came first? Were these narcissistic traits there before or have they just become more prominent because of the porn addiction? Will they go away again after recovery? http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2014/07/narcissism-porn-use-and-addiction/ Would like to hear others thoughts on this. Discuss....
I like this article and started a thread on it a while ago I never considered myself a narcissist and I guess I still don't really. But my mom pretty much was and a lot of my personality quirks and shame are related to being forever stuck in a reaction to her, having somehow internalized that I am insufficient, have to 'perform' to be worthy of attention love or affection... and as I find that works less and less I have a tendency to get despondent even angry... all that stuff really points back to being overly preoccupied with self worth... which is a form of narcissism... I never preen in front of the mirror... but then I actually do do the opposite... seeing myself draws a withering self criticism... it's another form of being preoccupied with self... I find this quote very lucid: "For me the real evil of masturbation would be that it takes an appetite which, in lawful use, leads the individual out of himself to complete (and correct) his own personality in that of another (and finally in children and even grandchildren) and turns it back: sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides. And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman. For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no real woman can rival. Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover: no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity. In the end, they become merely the medium through which he increasingly adores himself…. And it is not only the faculty of love which is thus sterilized, forced back on itself, but also the faculty of imagination." --C.S.Lewis
@TheWife First it takes a lot of courage to get on here and post in search for answers so i commend you for it. I'm guessing things are getting to a breaking point or you wouldn't be here, which can be good. From a man who looked at porn since I was about 12, had a highly narcissistic and alcoholic father, inititally grew up reinacting these patterns, and now find myself almost completely 360'ed through years of hard-fought soul searching and forgiveness, I can tell you with 100% certainty that porn is a symptom and not the root problem. Like treating a fever with Tylenol, it might help but the issue is underlying. This stuff is strong, no joke. It's dopemine reward release is identical to that of a hardcore drug, we're talking about the artificial stimulation of the human orgasm, the stuff that creates other living beings! So porn is definitely desensitizing him and if you don't believe me, just stop by a major porn site for 5 minutes and see for yourself what it's like now a days. There are so many ways in which high speed internet porn effects the brain and energy of the body that I could write you 10 pages at least. But what is important to focus on is knowing that underneath this there is a longing, and unfufillment. It might be easy to want to blame or shame when we find these things out but I'm telling you that will absolutely make it worse. There is a fine line between honest open discussion and guilt tripping and if honest discussion with him about it hadn't happened that absolutely is the first step. Do not use any blaming words and focus only on how you feel about it. This rabbit hole goes soo much deeper than porn, porn is just the way it's manifested itself. Last, you should know too.. That until he can see for himself and be man enough to admit he's searching for fufillment in ways harmful to his psyche and health he isn't going to quit. Until he takes full responsibility he will create excuses and lies and will hide it. All you can do is offer support and speak loving and honest. Any other way will lead to mistrust and pain. If you approach someone with understanding and loving dialogue, you'd be amazed the ways in which they open up. You might already know that but just saying. : ) None but ourselves can free our mind~
@TheWife I just read some of your other posts well done! I would say your definitely on the right track and you've got the right mentality that you don't want to be policing him or guilting him, because guilt WILL NOT WORK, foorr sure. It seems he understands and wants to change though. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it but PLEASE Look up Karezza. It did wonders in my relationship and when I saw you say "it's not sex that is lacking it's intimacy," I had to mention it. See our perspectives, men, have been so skewed from not only porn but the male dominated ego/western society 'conquer' mindset that we many of us never learned how to actually make love. we just learned how to f*** and get off. That is immensely selfish and not at all about love but about release. Karezza addresses that issue and it literally changed my world. It changed how I viewed sex altogether. It's great at working intimacy back in ones life, and not only that it feels awesome haha. Really check it out. Best of luck
Interesting read - i'm 100% sure i am addicted to P but i am also sure that i am no way narcissistic - in fact i'm very far from it when you define narcissism from a social standpoint ( narcissists have an over-inflated sense of self-worth and self-esteem) - my self esteem is negatively effected by P and the addiction, but the clinical definition (Clinically speaking, narcissism is a defense/coping mechanism used to deal with inherent and deeply rooted feelings of shame, inadequacy, and unworthiness) i can definitely relate to and i think alot of people who get addicted to P in the first place could be due to this deep rooted thoughts and feelings - very interesting to read up on.
Agree on porn being a symptom, but how you search for the cause? Btw, great thread @TheWife. I was narcissistic with my last GF and the actual inimacy would be only in sex. Besides that, no dates, no romantic stuff - it was always an effort. And what's more important any sacrifice or adjustment (even changing my daily plan) was something I never wanted to do. Later on I was quite surprised when my guy-friends told me about their adjustments to gfs and I wa quite surprised.. Really desensitized.
Searching for the symptom can come in many forms; it's setting up a different environment and situation that are conductive to that search that people have a very hard time with. We're creatures of habit like you pointed out but no one can discover your problem but you. However there is one common theme, it all stems from trying to reach an unlimited place by limited means, whatever those means may be. The human being is wired intrinsically to have desire; whatever it may be. Anyone or any spiritual path that totes "eliminating" your desire is full of shit. Yeah I hear you with the gf business though. I've had similar situations and porn was definitely a culprit.
A Wikipedia search for "addictive personality" used to send you to "narcissistic personality disorder" by default... I was searching for it because - before this addiction really came to the fore, lucky me - I was an alcoholic and a drug addict. In searching. I was exhibiting self-absorbtion, and that's a narcissistic trait I believe. So I can see that in myself, a multiple and serial addict. However, I'd be wary of looking for "the answer" or "the cause" to addiction. I think we're all as wonderfully complex and individual as non-addicts. I've thought about my own addictions (being a narcissist an' all) a great deal. I can see lots of causes and potential causes. My absolutely rhapsodic reaction to my first encounter with alcohol leads me to believe I do have some genetic disposition, as does my family tree, which fruits with a healthy crop of addicts. I had a slightly troubled adolescence (I don't want to overstate this, certainly no traumas or abuse) and started to make some very bad decisions. I was slightly lacking in guidance at this point when I needed a lot of support. In alcohol, and then drugs, and also pornography, I found the wrong answers to lots of my problems - shyness, anxiety, depression - and self-medicated. I then went on to use my "medicines" to "treat" later episodes of depression, loneliness, low self-worth and so on. That's a tiny, completely inadequate, biased, self obsessed assessment of my own problems, but it is all those things. I'm hoping to change some of these negatives - to become less self-absorbed, etc, and I think I can. But because I was attempting to medicate away the effects of some of this shit with my addictions, I'm now having to try to deal with it without my quick fix. I reckon you could look at anyone and find that they are at times: But very few people are diagnosably so I would guess. I've rambled on like a complete narcissist here (it's all about me!!!! ) without really answering your questions. I think because mainly my answer would be, it's much more complicated than that, it's bound to be. I've also found in all my years of counselling and treatment and so on that looking for the causes is no longer of interest to me. The past of it is complex, but the future can be much simpler and much better - try to be kinder, more confident, more responsible, more grown up. And I'd urge you to focus on that and support your husband in that. Look forward and look forward positively! Wish you both well.
@JackStrident thank you for linking to your other thread. I probably should have done a search before adding a new post. Wow, CS Lewis really nailed it, huh. That is a great summation. Frightening, but brilliant. @DonB thank you Don. I am not sure if I was looking for 'the answer' as such. I think the main reason that I posted here was that I found so many parts of the article that rang true for my husband. These were things I had never noticed prior to the past year. I do not like many of these traits and I really hope they piss off to where-ever they came from as he goes through recovery.
Not to sound too pessimistic but this behavior is probably completely unconscious on his part and as he goes through withdrawal, fueled by irrationality, it might get a little worse for a while. These traits are really nothing more than a learned coping mechanism for stress sadness etc, learned in some combo of fear and shame when young, he needs to become aware of this. Narcissistic traits are tough to talk to ppl about... it's such a laden and negative term... but perhaps there are ways you can introduce him to it... any chance his parents have narcissistic tendencies? does any of this fit: http://parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html ? If he starts looking at narcissistic tendencies in his parents he may be able to become aware of some some of those traits in himself... Of course therapy can be very helpfull too
Eh, I think that concept is bull**** for most people. Most people use porn/drugs/addictions to relieve an impulse or to numb psychological or physical pain that they have.
