Second debate

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Kdot, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. [​IMG]
    going off topic here but I'm pretty sure Bruce Willis doesn't need a diet?!?
    :D
     
    Dr.NoFap likes this.
  2. AllanTheCowboy

    AllanTheCowboy Fapstronaut

    1,071
    1,352
    143
    China's elections are actually fairly conducted contests between state-selected candidates. China is very different from those two examples. And regardless, my point is germane. The US electoral circus is an excellent advertisement against democracy.
     
  3. Themadfapper

    Themadfapper Fapstronaut

    704
    864
    93
    Douche vs Turd pretty much sums it up. If it was really democracy neither Hilliary or Trump would be anywhere near the Presidency.
     
    Krutonpalmer3 and WalkingForward like this.
  4. johnny e

    johnny e Fapstronaut

    29
    13
    3
    I suspect Clinton will win. Trump is loosing key Republican supporters and funders as his behaviour is proving far too outlandish for a lot of them to support.

    He is a racist, misogynist, narcissistic, bigot and very dangerous.

    Clinton is up with big business, was partly responsible for mass incarceration, especially of black people, flip flops on social positions depending on who she is talking to and is almost as power mad as Trump.

    Trump is riding high on working class discontent and anger with the political class for shafting them but as a billionaire real estate man he is unlikely to do the things that will actually help working class Americans. There is a property boom that partly resulted in the 2008 banking crash. This has resulted in high house prices and high rents. Trump is unlikely to want affordable rents as this will threaten his real estate empire.

    Bill Clinton partly caused the mortgage bubble by deregulating the banking sector and Hilary is complicit in that. They are very close to corporate USA, though a different part from Trump. Corporate power has eviscerated USA working class power, and indeed working class power in many parts of the world.

    Trump is stirring up hatred, racism, misogyny and homophobia. At least Clinton keeps her evil to the level or policy and not stirring up hatred amongst the populace.

    For a real change you would have needed Sanders. Jill Stein from the Green Party is saying some interesting things, or at least that is what I see on my facebook feed. What I would really like to see is a working class popular movement and not one lead by billionaires (i.e. Tea Party and those following Trump).
     
  5. Baroque

    Baroque Fapstronaut

    139
    106
    43
    It's Trump vs Tramp.
     
    Lone_Wolf and Dr.NoFap like this.
  6. johnny e

    johnny e Fapstronaut

    29
    13
    3
    seriously, or I wouldn't have written it.

    Climate change is the biggest threat humanity faces. Unless it is dealt with in the next few years we will be wiped out.

    Inequality is a huge issue and as far as I can see these two are the only candidates I can see addressing this.

    I didn't say Clinton wasn't a a racist, misogynist, bigot, etc to decide that you would need to look at her policies and they are pretty frightening in terms of Middle East politics, prison and many other things. What I wrote was that Trump openly using a racist, misogynist, bigot, etc rhetoric is stirring things up and making even streets unsafe for women, black and ethnic minority people, LGBT people and anyone else that anyone has a grudge against. I think looking at the hate crime statistics during his campaign would be illuminating.

    I just read that Trump is in favour of more private prisons. That will mean more people locked up in a country with the highest level of incarceration in the world being treated badly with high suicide rates and all for private profit which increases inequality. How any of Trumps policies can conceivably benefit the working class of the USA is beyond me.

    Both Clinton and Trump are bad candidates in a corrupt country. I give you all my blessings and hope you can deal with the awful state of affairs as best you can.
     
  7. Themadfapper

    Themadfapper Fapstronaut

    704
    864
    93
    One Candidate want's to cut taxes for the wealthy, the other candidate says she wants to increase taxes on the wealthy, but she is lying and she will cut taxes for the wealthy as well. Assuming you're not wealthy who do you vote for?
     
  8. Kdot

    Kdot Guest

    It won't matter if you not wealthy
     
  9. Themadfapper

    Themadfapper Fapstronaut

    704
    864
    93
    ^I would love to. I can't stand how Hilliary panders to women and LBGT. I'm not pro-abortion and I'm not for special rights for gays, I hate how PC social values are pushed, I was disgusted by how some of the media portrayed Trump and their obvious bias.

    However, I'm not gonna vote for a guy who actually says he wants to make the rich richer. I wasn't an Obama fan either although I find him far more likable than either Hilliary or Trump, but no way I would vote for ' trickle down economics'

    I'm pissed that Sanders didn't get the nomination, and I think how Hilliary got the nomination is perhaps*[the news is so sensationalized and full of propaganda?]a violation of democracy, but what alternative am I left with?

    Under Obama according to the info out there, taxes on the rich were increased by a few percent. As well we saw an attempt at universal healthcare and also I've seen minimum wages go up in a lot of areas of the country.


    Hilliary is supposedly a globalist, but look what happened to Russia not long ago when they fell apart. The nation was looted by Billionaires who profited off of its collapse.
     
  10. johnny e

    johnny e Fapstronaut

    29
    13
    3
    I'm not a USA citizen. I am a UK citizen. I am a long term climate campaigner, know climate scientists and also know USA climate campaigners.

    USA politics effect the whole world as the Iraq war showed.

    Here in the UK there was a vote to leave the EU recently. It was conducted in a racist manner. Subsequently there has been a huge rise in racist and homophobic violence. I hear similar things are happening in the USA as Trump stirs things up against minorities. It is an old story where there is trouble and the people do not know how to deal with it or what the causes are a man, in this case a very rich man, tell everyone he is the only one who can solve the problems and encourages everyone to bind together to hate people. Usually internal and external enemies are needed to bind people together into unthinking followers.

    Trump has nothing else to offer the people of the USA. He will not provide jobs or affordable housing or affordable healthcare. He cannot do that as he is a very rich man dependant on a system that makes the rich ever richer at the expense of everyone else. Hilary is the same, but at least she does not indulge in playing off the white working class against minorities in vile ways that result in violence.

    These are my opinions. Yours are likely to be different.
     
  11. johnny e

    johnny e Fapstronaut

    29
    13
    3
    I think the USA elections are a battle between two oligarchs - one side of the super rich fighting another side for control of the economy while telling barefaced lies by persuading the working and middle class that they have their best interests at heart.

    Without organised opposition by the working and middle class this is unlikely to change.
     
    Themadfapper likes this.
  12. Kdot

    Kdot Guest

    Vote hilary Clinton
     
  13. The human failure

    The human failure Fapstronaut

    331
    342
    63
    no
     
    Deadlihood, Dr.NoFap and Lone_Wolf like this.
  14. For the record, plenty of Americans also say DT is racist. And also for the record, they don't say that because he doesn't like illegal immigrants. That's not the whole story.
     
  15. Jodo Kus

    Jodo Kus Fapstronaut

    300
    300
    63
    In Germany Trump already has a very bad reputation. But I think the media doesn't cover so much how many Americans dislike Clinton.

    Americans who dislike both candidates should vote for a third party IMO. Better vote for someone you want to support than against someone. Or would you go to the movies if you hate both films they show?
     
  16. Jodo Kus

    Jodo Kus Fapstronaut

    300
    300
    63
    *sigh* and yet I have to make my statement. Because, while politics is complicated, when it comes to Donald Trump it's actually quite simple: he's a sex offender.
    Just have a look on the long list of women he harrassed. Even if half of it is trues...
    I don't know if that would make him a bad president. But I wonder why people voted about them in the first place. It's interesting. I guess these disputes about political correctness and the handling by the media with it's morbid attention to everything that could be a "scandal" makes people so confuse that they can't see what is what.
    They think he would be the straight-forward character who says what he wants and does things in his own way, a rebel too cool for political correctness. But the truth is, he's the guy you wouldn't let your daughter alone with. Or your wife, unless she knows how to defend herself.
    Maybe a Reboot could help him ;)
     
    Headspace and StepsReborn like this.
  17. Headspace

    Headspace Fapstronaut

    1,217
    2,000
    143
    I'm from Germany and personally I don't know anyone who
    1. likes Trump
    2. complains about the amount of immigrants (in a trivialising way)
    But of course I do know the polls and results from elections. It's curious. There's a general swing to the right wing and/or nationalism in the USA, Germany, Turkey, Poland, Austria, Netherlands, England, France, Finland... did I forget anyone?

    By the way, don't mess with Donald Trump's German cousin, Doris Trump!
     
  18. Jodo Kus

    Jodo Kus Fapstronaut

    300
    300
    63
    That's a good point, it isn't proven. And yes, it seems suspicious to me that SOME of the women just before the election.
    Although the reason could be as well that the women wait with their allegations to a powerful man until he's especially vulnerable or until she can count on much support. But then I would say it's disrespectul to the voters to wait until after the pre-election.

    Anyway, Ivana Trump and Jill Harth sued him in the 90's and he payed money to both of them ("The Trump's divorce was granted in December 1990 with the final financial settlement made in 1991 or 1992, on grounds that Donald's treatment of Ivana was "cruel and inhuman"" according to Wikipedia).

    Together with what Trump revealed himself about what he thinks of women and how he treats them, in the overall picture it's clear to me that he's a sexual offender. But no, I can't proove it.

    In the end I don't know which candidate would be better for the world.
    I would take into account that even under Obama who hasn't initiated an open war, the illegal drone killings have continued and increased. They're killing folks on foreign soil in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan... so you could say the USA is on war with more than three countries, only the people suffering the drone attacks can't defend themselves and their governements are suckers to the US.
     
  19. ^ This. It's not at all surprising to me that women haven't come forward sooner about abuse from a man like Donald Trump. The reason they've waited so long is because of people, like some of the people here, who refuse to believe them and will laugh them out of a courtroom as they are forced to relive every detail of their abuse. It's not at ALL uncommon for women to not come forward about their abuse until someone else has been brave enough to take that first step, and that's just in normal cases, not even just cases against powerful and well-known men like Trump.

    It hasn't been proven yet, sure, but just to be clear, from someone who knows a lot about this kind of stuff, they pattern and way in which the women came forward is not surprising or uncommon at all.
     
  20. WalkingForward

    WalkingForward Fapstronaut

    Is it still a taboo subject?

    It is now for the most part quite socially acceptable to talk about the negative impacts of the insane mass immigration we've had in Sweden. Up until 1-2 years ago, saying something like that publicly would have meant social suicide.

    I definitely believe that political correctness has gone too far, but I don't think the solution has to be going to the extreme in the other direction.

    Some balance and nuance, how about that?

    Besides, Donald Trump is not a champion of the right:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-2013-borders-global-economy-2016-10?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

    Donald Trump is nothing but a snake oil salesman, saying whatever he thinks people will respond to. It's hard to understand why anyone would want to vote for him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016