Do YOU Think confederate monuments should be taken down?

Yes, and also cultural. It was about the future of America... whether it would be industrial and democratic, or whether it would be hierarchical and aristocratic. A clash of civilizations between the old and new.

 

i think the shuld be capt to kerp the past alive to remive or forget thr past mens to make the same faults agen and agen

 

He was a good man

 

He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.

 

Maybe some egregious ones ought to be removed, but generally no.

 

What part of my post led you to believe I think these confederate leaders are honorable? Im making the point that removal of these statues is token PC bullshit. What good is it to remove a monument of a former slave owners when you still have a proven track record of treating minorities poorly. The removal of some symbol doesnt correct the 3 tiered legal system that disproportionatly effect the black and minority community, the substandard education provided to their children and the modern day segregation into communities with separate but unequal resources. Those statues represent the truth but I would like to see change that actually improves peoples lives instead of a symbolic gestures. I know it gets all the silly little SJW keyboard soldiers all hyped up but it doesnt mean shit to me.

 

Thomas Jefferson? He may have had book smarts and been an eloquent writer - but based on the books I've read I find very little that's good about the man. Arrogant, materialistic, the prime moving force behind factionalism. His ideas proved to be wrong, Hamilton's proved to be right. He wrote slanderous articles under pseudonyms about his supposed friend George Washington. And don't forget about Sally Hemmings - I don't care what century it was there's no way anybody could mistake that for the behavior of a "good" man.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care how many statues there are of him in the nation. A statue doesn't change anything - it's just a hunk of concrete, marble, bronze, or whatever.

 

No way man, especially not Lee. The argument could be made that Lee was America's greatest soldier, not just the Confederacy's. He fought the Mexicans for the Union before entering the civil war for the Confederacy. Once his home state of Virginia seceded, he had to make a tough choice. Enter the war for the Union, and fight against his fellow Virginians, or fight against the Union, for which he had spent many years fighting for. I'm sure the decision must have been like deciding which of your hands to cut off.

Plus, when those statues are gone, what's next? These SJW / Antifa's seem to be hell bent on reducing everything from the past to rubble, leaving only their views standing. I can only imagine the monuments they would erect.

 

They will erect a giant pink dildo to commermerate gender identity and sexual liberation.

 

I figured we'd see that type of thing on one corner, and on the other they would be bringing in all the statues of Stalin and Lenin from the scrap heaps in the former U.S.S.R.. Communism has been failing and killing millions for a little more than a hundred years now, but I'm sure these folks are the ones to finally get it right!

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/08/21/trump-american-history-assassinated/

I came across this article. I don't generally like Paul Roberts as I don't share a lot of his views, but this article hits the nail on the head and brings up a lot of inconvenient history that people would like to forget.

Some excerpts

Lot's of Lincoln quotes

An excerpt about the genocide of Native Americans by the Unions troops. Total genocide killing everyone man woman child, killing the buffalo to starve the Indians. And of course the killing of southern woman and children rather than fighting a war, a war which the south wanted no part of rather an invasion. Wholesale rape of southern woman after the war, and the persecution of the southerner after

Pretty interesting if you are an open-minded person. Frankly, a lot of the historical bits in that article make a lot of sense and make sense of things that puzzled me.

 

History is not a white-washed wall.... we must accept it warts and all.

Basically, the ideologues now bred in the modern university, are the equivalent of the puritans of the past. They want to white-wash everything. They have this ill-conceived notion that their beloved doctrines of freedom and equality will only come true if all consciousness is made to conform. They want to remake society in their own image. This is where rationalism [the God's eye view of the world] takes us. In the name of freedom, they become totalitarian.

 

I'd advocate a similar solution to what former dictatorships did to their old statues, i.e. subvert their values or place them in a park so they can no longer dominate. The problem is that the Confederate statues are apparently mass produced rubbish from the around the 1920s. That being the case, I say simply throw away these monuments to traitors, slavers and losers.

Edited to remove some harsh words in the interests of civility.

 

Where did you learn that word... from a 'winner'.

 

Eh, i really do disagree man, if you do look at the numbers i believe only about 10% of the military for the Confederates actually had slaves, the rest didn't want Lincoln telling them what to do, so doesn't it seem more like they were fighting more for state rights?

 

I'm personally against taking down these statues. I'm not from the US, and I'm not too knowledgeable about the civil war, if I'm honest, but I doubt any of these statues were put up to honor the slaves these people owned, rather other achievements made by those people. How would you feel if you achieved something tremendously beneficial for your country, say you cured cancer. But you also did something bad, but normal at the time. Now in 300 years time people decide that "hey, that thing is terrible and everyone that does it is a terrible person", and they go and tear down your statue. I'll reiterate that I don't know too much about the civil war, but I think this analogy isn't too far off.

The other point, which is the main reason I'm against this, is what it achieves. Nothing. I'm pretty sure that tearing down statues centuries later doesn't free slaves. What's happened has happened. These statues remind us of the path we've taken to get to where we are today. Tearing them down is removing all memory of this path, so that we find ourselves lost once again. It's also destroying our culture, for millennia to come. This I know, because it's happened so many times before. The ancient Egyptians were more ancient to the Romans than the Romans are to us. Yet we know so little about the Egyptians because succeeding kingdoms destroyed their statues and tore down anything they disagreed with. Christians went around Rome defacing beautiful Pagan statues by carving crosses into their heads. Even today, Isis goes around destroying artifacts in museums. How is it any different tearing down confederate statues?

I will reiterate again that I am not from the US, but these are my opinions.
- A madman with a fez.

 

Crazy that the north offered constitutional protection of slavery to the south, but they refused.

Robert Lee was offered the job of being in charge of the Union's forces. He turned it down.

 

LOL Americans

 

I thought that Lincoln was anti slavery. I'm not American but in the American media I heard that he was against slavery, this really emphasizes the point that history really has been rewritten by the elites and that most people are clueless of that.