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The last bastion of my enslavement

A group for Buddhist Fapstronauts to connect.

  1. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    I feel like masturbation and porn are the final things that are holding me back from becoming free from suffering. I meditate every day, I use right speech and right action for the most part, I am a better person by far than I used to be... but there is something that still holds me back. I haven't fully gained control over myself. I want to grow up, I want to do the right thing, but then no matter how much I think about being good all the sudden it's 3 am and I'm watching porn. I am addicted for sure. Sometimes when I'm meditating I feel myself getting pulled away by sexual urges. I wish I could just stop them for a while, at least while I meditate.
     
    Merry Terry and Paranimmita like this.
  2. capdindass

    capdindass Fapstronaut

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    I'm sorry that you are suffering and yet happy that you are realizing your suffering.

    I would try not to fall into the trap of believing the minds stories. Masturbation is just one mental facet of an infinite combination. If it's not masturbation, the mind will jump for something else. This is not to say you should not control your masturbation. Just a point to notice.

    Why do you want to stop the urges while meditation? How do you feel when it pops up during your meditation?

    How does being a "better person" mean that you are almost free from suffering? Is the goal of the path to become a better person? How are you viewing your "attainments"?


    ____________________________________________
    Some passages that come to mind:

    An excerpt from the heart sutra (https://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/heartsutra.html):
    "
    There is no ignorance,
    and no end to ignorance.
    There is no old age and death,
    and no end to old age and death.
    There is no suffering, no cause of suffering,
    no end to suffering, no path to follow.
    There is no attainment of wisdom,
    and no wisdom to attain.
    "


    MN 113:
    Furthermore, a person of no integrity — secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He notices, 'I have gained the attainment of the first jhāna, but these other monks have not gained the attainment of the first jhāna.' He exalts himself for the attainment of the first jhāna and disparages others. This is the quality of a person of no integrity.

    "But a person of integrity notices, 'The Blessed One has spoken of non-fashioning [2] even with regard to the attainment of the first jhāna, for by whatever means they construe it, it becomes otherwise from that.' [3] So, giving priority to non-fashioning, he neither exalts himself for the attainment of the first jhāna nor disparages others. This is the quality of a person of integrity.
     
    Paranimmita likes this.
  3. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    I don't think my ego is too attached to being a good person, I just read in "heart of a buddha" that when one is doing spiritual work for the people around them then they are practicing correctly. I guess I did think that at least part of the path was becoming more compassionate and empathetic. Why else would they say "until man has total and unbiased love for all beings, he will not know peace" (again, from "heart of a buddha")?

    And as for why I think it means I'm almost free from suffering.. well, I guess I wouldn't really know if I was almost there or not. I just feel like if you are a bad person you ARE doing unto others as you do to yourself, that maladaptive behaviors and social tendencies are a reverboration of the suffering you cause yourself. Since I've started being nice to myself most of my interpersonal problems that used to bog me down have pretty much gone away. As I become more free from suffering, I become a better person. As I become a better person, I become more free from suffering (interbeing).
     
    Paranimmita likes this.
  4. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    I'm going to try to answer more of your questions. Thanks for the reply by the way.

    why do I want to stop these urges while meditating:
    I guess it just feels wrong and like it's pulling me away from the path. I guess I don't really know what the path is, is there a path? I have a lot of questions that really frustrate me, especially when meditating at first, then sometimes I can just get in the zone and I don't really think that much (pure bliss!).

    how do I feel when sexual thoughts happen during meditation:
    well, I feel like masturbating and that kind of pulls me away from the true pleasure of meditation. I think it's the easy way out. It scares me a little. It's completely different than my philosophy and self control. It is a wild thing that given the chance will take control of my life. At least in my head that's what it feels like. I'm masochistic. It doesn't want whats best for me, it is dukkha (I don't know if I'm using that correctly).
     
    Paranimmita likes this.
  5. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    I feel very ashamed of myself for this. I know that is suffering too. So I don't really know what to do. All I know is I'm 7 days into nofap and I'm slowly getting my shit together
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Paranimmita likes this.
  6. capdindass

    capdindass Fapstronaut

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    Just being careful with views, my friend. Whether good or bad. All views lead to bhavana. Even buddhist views lead to bhavana and eventually dukkha

    This is a wonderful insight, in which I would completely agree.

    Well, let me ask you. What is the point of meditation? A further point, is how do you feel when you feel this bliss (piti or sukha)? Does this bliss lead us further into the path or what is your relationship to it?

    This is how you feel about being pulled away by sexual thoughts. How do you feel when sexual thoughts happen during meditation? What are the reactions in your body and mind? When you start to feel it happen in your sitting, watch the physical reactions and tell me about them. Do you feel a flutter in your chest or a tension in your face? Does your breathing rate increase?

    You hint towards a mental reaction in, "It scares me a little".


    I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but these are merely for you to ponder. Just watch throughout the day. I don't think giving straightforward answers help in these situations. I'm very proud of you for getting to 7 days
     
    Paranimmita likes this.
  7. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    I feel like for me the point of meditation is to let go of muscle tension, become more spiritually aware and awaken to the present moment. I think it is also about self control, being ok without substances or addictions and training your mind to do what you want it to do.

    I think I feel piti when I'm creating things and sukha when I successfully meditate. I think sukha kind of scares me. It feels like I'm going to lose myself sometimes. I am truly alone and I feel myself distancing from the world a little bit. At first this is scary and may pull me away. But if I can remember to just keep going no matter what pops up (self discipline), it's like stepping into a new world. A world where I'm ok with everything. Everything about myself, everything about the world, death, loss, risk. I would say this is something I covet which is why it's so hard to achieve. I want to let go and that is the problem.
     
    Paranimmita likes this.
  8. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    What is bhavana?
     
  9. something better

    something better Fapstronaut

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    and I will try to observe what happens over the next few days and get back to you. I appreciate the help a lot.
     
  10. Bhavana means the activity of meditation. In etymology it means cultivation (of the mind).
     
  11. I say don't be concerned about the urges. All of us who are Buddhist in this group have joined because we all have problems with urges and you are not alone.
    Nobody said it was going to be easy. Sexual desire is the biggest form of attachment we have in Samsara. The reason why we took up this birth was because of sexual activity.
    We have to remember that all these great sages of the past who accomplished in the Buddhist path, that at one point in their lives they were nothing more than who we are now. Take Nanda, the Buddha's cousin for example. He was about to be wedded off to one of the most beautiful and sexiest of women in their state. But on his wedding day the Buddha ordained him as a monastic. Nanda could not meditate because his feelings of desire for his fiancee was blocking his progress in meditation. The Buddha realised this and he showed Nanda a vision of one of the heavenly realms with its goddesses who's beauty was of a kind that was unknown to this world, which surpasses the beauty of any woman. Then the Buddha asked from Nanda who was more beautiful? Whether it was his spouse-to-be or whether it were the godesses in the heavenly abodes. Nanda without a doubt said that the beauty of the goddesses were far greater beyond words and that his spouse-to-be looked more like a monkey compared to these goddesses. Then the Buddha encouraged Nanda to meditate more, so that he would also get the chance to see these goddesses whenever he wishes (except that when you meditate and progress in that, your desire for sex diminishes and completely extinguishes before enlightenment).

    As for simple basic mindfulness meditation itself is supposed to lead one to blissful states known as Jhanas (Pali) / Dhyanas (Sanskrit). There are 8 Jhanas/Dhyanas. The first Jhana itself is meant to be far more pleasurable than the best possible orgasm with all the sexiest of women and goddesses in the past, present and future all put together. When one reaches something like the 1st Jhana then for sometime this is meant to feel like the most pleasurable thing one has ever experienced more than anything through the senses whether that is sex, drugs, music or sweet food.

    As for meditation it is normal to hit a lot of speed bumps. But with time and effort those obstacles will get less and less where nothing will stand between you and progress in meditation.

    Also note that even those who do meditation from a secular point of view have 'complained' that their meditation activity had reduced their libido. This is from both the practices of mindfulness of breathing as well as Vipassana.

    As Buddhists, overcoming desire is one of the benefits, because the end result of chasing desires such as sex is suffering. Therefore these 'complaints' from non-Dhamma folk who say that meditation reduces libido, are actually what we as Buddhists see as benefits.

    Of course, the diminishing of sexual desire is a great benefit itself. But given that we as Buddhists who are here to aim for enlightenment, we are not going to settle for those benefits either.
     

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