What's the plan if my partner's just not into sex?

Also, it takes a lot more than lost love and unmet needs to trigger an affair. It takes a conscious choice to ditch honor, personal integrity, and any care for how others will see you after the matter is discovered. (Think you can win a child's trust after two-timing their other parent? Fat chance.) We live in a world now with no-fault divorce, women's economic empowerment, and legal protections for men's parental rights. There is the increasingly popular choice to not take wedding vows at all, and there are even communities where people can live under poly arrangements if that's what they're into. So there is literally no excuse left to lie and live a double life.

Personal integrity. Is there any love between me and the bank that owns my neighbor's house? No, but that's hardly an excuse to crawl under there and cut out their pipes to sell for scrap metal. Habitual adulterers are low, low like copper thieves. They're willing to do great damage to others in a quest for pitifully small rewards, pleasures which they could have gotten the right way, with little more patience and the courage to be honest. That's why I think it's so gross to assume someone is "getting it on the side" just because they're being inconsiderate at home. The two sins are worlds apart.

 

First, I have been there on both ends, and I have experienced it. I have given up sex, as a man, to care for my family; I have rejected sex on multiple occasions because I wasn't feeling especially connected to my wife; and I've poured time and energy into my female spouse to make sure that her love tank is full, thereby encouraging intimacy. So, there's that.

Second, I sense a lot of fierce bitterness. This is not an attack against you. Your perspective on men seems to be pretty dour (I suspect some reinforcing interaction with men in your past or present). The stereotype you've mentioned is perpetuated in things like television and movies, but I don't personally know a single man that esteems sex above everything else. I do, however, know several men that are far more concerned with the needs of their spouse than the needs of themselves - incidentally, those men don't ever complain about their sex lives, either. So, there's that, too.

And I once held lofty ideals such as personal integrity and character, like you. I held that there were such values that were just so inalienable and sacrosanct that as long as you were a person of character, there were just boundaries you did not cross. I remember reading His Needs, Her Needs when I was in Iraq and thinking, "You know what? That's good for everyone else, but I'd never be a cheater, no matter what."

As such, I neglected to shore up my defenses. Years later, when my girlfriend was especially neglectful, I met a girl that matched me and my needs perfectly. She was a coworker, and the more I got to know her, the more a connection built off of our personalities and our mutual needs. I found myself in bed with her in a short period of time, even though I had never considered myself a person who would have been disloyal. After the fact, I realized that a lot of my weaknesses had never been shored up and a lot of new ones had been created by the neglectful and draining relationship.

It doesn't matter how holy or righteous or characteristic you think you, or your spouse, is: if you neglect something in your marriage habitually, then that's one avenue that can be used to tempt or draw away your spouse. Relying purely on "character" is both foolish and prideful. I have lost count of the number of good, upstanding, loving men that have broken down and had an affair when they, themselves, had thought that no amount of temptation could ever draw them away from their wives.

Hence, "How to Build an Affair-Proof Marriage".

You might look down your nose at people that have gone through this, but it's inane and arrogant to suggest that every cheater out there has done it merely because they were a person of low character, and that no contributing factor in a relationship is "powerful" enough to cause a spouse to fall if that spouse is truly virtuous enough. Like I said: that's pride, and pride is followed by destruction as a spiritual principle.

 

Weiland,

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I actually didn't mean to come across as prideful, and I certainly don't advocate putting anyone in a position where they're vulnerable to temptation. I have sympathy for people who are in desperate situations. Heck, even copper thieves probably have reasons for being so selfish (drug addictions or whatever). I shouldn't be too quick to condemn.

On a very personal note, I've also been on both sides of a weak spot in marriage, once with an extended bout of neglectfulness and depression on my part, and the other time dealing with spinal injury, failed surgeries, personality changes from long-term narcotics use, and coming to terms with what doctors insisted would be a permanent loss of function (we worked around it after he was well enough). No affairs.

How? On my side, early on, if I would see a hot guy, I trained myself to look away immediately. Early on, if I was interacting with a male at work or college, and found myself tilting my head to the side a little and curling one ankle (ugh, quite reflexive), an alert went off in my head, and I immediately worked my husband into the conversation. Sometimes it was quite artificial, maybe crazy-looking. It probably cost me some valuable professional contacts. If, over time, I felt myself enjoying the conversation of a male coworker too much, I deliberately shut down any developing friendship, cold. Maybe this is extreme. I felt I had reason to take extreme measures, given my early sexual history, which is another personal topic altogether.

On his side? I don't know how he did it. Maybe he doesn't even like other women that way. I can only take his word on how he feels. And he is surrounded by many female friends and coworkers. Strange story: A weird thing happened when I spent the day at his work one time. Some six or seven women approached me on their own, at different times, introduced themselves, and the second thing out of their mouths was some variation on, "Oh! You are so beautiful!". What had me scratching my head about it was that it didn't seem scripted or insincere. Honestly, I'm not exactly a head-turner. Nothing like that has ever happened to me anywhere else. Husband's explanation for it was, "DUH. It's true." which doesn't really explain anything, and I'm left to puzzle the matter out by myself.

I did want to respond to this:
Your perspective on men seems to be pretty dour (I suspect some reinforcing interaction with men in your past or present).
Assumptions!
It's true that I think men have higher sex drives than women, but, that being a biological fact, I don't regard it as morally better or worse. It's just a thing. Generally, I get along better with most men my age than most women my age. I'm very direct, which doesn't work well in girl circles. I can't help it. This personal style instantly repulses chauvinistic men, and women who have "certain ideas" about feminine propriety (that it's their duty to act meek, dress up sexy, be self-effacing, etc.). I don't think I have a more cynical view of either gender? I can love people as individuals, and still despair that there's a whole hell-of-a-lot of stupid shit going on in this world, human made tragedies. It sucks.

Looking back, I don't see any gender-specific language in my post about personal integrity.... As it happens, (You mind-reader you?) it was my mother who decided that keeping promises was not fun, took up with a girl from work, was rapidly dumped, (LOL) and later went on some sort of lesbian romp with the new pastor (liberal church) all in public. I'm pretty sure it was situational lesbianism, as taking up with a man would have had immediate consequences, and besides, there were none available who would give the time of day to *ahem* one such as her. For some reason, she decided it would be "cool" to engage in a lot of TMI over-sharing. I wasn't impressed. Even before hitting puberty, I could tell it was an asshole move to expect oral sex without being willing to administer oral sex (rephrasing, she put it A LOT more rudely than that). Just like it's an asshole move to expect someone else to pay all the bills, spring for a maid, take-out food and babysitters, and treat you like an "equal" when you don't behave like one, and accept both abuse and public humiliation in stride. They're still married, by the way. And she'd still be telling me about their lack of sex life, only I cut off contact years ago over other nasty abuses. Idiots. Work for your own upkeep, reciprocate in love, and think about others in addition to yourself. It's not rocket science. (Okay, that was prideful and condescending, but I'm not taking on the job of judging anyone's immortal soul here. I'm just a hack at home with my own opinion, take it or leave it, it doesn't amount to much.)

 

It's simple, talk to her about your missing sex life and how it makes you feel.
Ask her about why she does not feel like having sex anymore and if there is something she thinks could get the spark back.

 

Hey, you've got to work off of assumptions, you know? I think the general rule for me is to make an educated guess, and if it sticks to the wall, great; if someone tries to peel it off and replace it with a clearer idea, then mission accomplished. I've gotten pretty good at putting two and two together, but I'm not always right. Doesn't bother me one bit - I'm not above admitting my misconceptions.

Sorry to hear about your personal family life there - all the little hard bits. I agree, that does make it rough on a wife/daughter.

A probable note about your curiosity at your husband's work: beauty is more than skin deep and a lot of people will notice it upon first meeting you (whether they say something about it is an entirely different thing). With my girlfriend, I think her beauty is something that's both superficial and ingrained, and people do take notice. Don't be confused about it; rather, be happy that your husband notices as much as anyone. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders, as far as I can tell.

Men and sex; sex and men. To honestly say that the sex drive of a man is stronger than that of a woman... I gotta disagree. Maybe in your experience it is, but I've witnessed and studied too much to believe that. I will say that at a baseline, men and women have different triggers driving their sexuality, but if you take a healthy married couple and stick them together, as a general rule, his sex drive would not outshine hers. It's just, in many marriages and relationships, there's not much of a connect; a lot of the important needs required to be said healthy couple aren't being tended to, and as it builds up, resentment and stress makes it harder for either side to appreciate sex fully.

I do want to take a moment to punch a hole in the general assumption that not only are men quicker to engage in sex, but their involvement is purely physical. The stereotype is that women are much deeper and more intimate in their relationship, especially regarding sex, and that men are basically just there for the act. In reality, men are fully capable of as much depth and emotional attachment and involvement as women, and sex for most husbands is not merely "getting it wet" as some would state, but is an important tool for deepening intimacy with and tending to their mates. And, as my dad tends to say, "A lot of problems are solved in the bedroom."

I think my final note here would be to address what I noticed about your viewpoints on chauvinism and meekness among women. In your defense, I don't think that society (regardless of religious outlook, income level, or culture) has done a very good job of exhibiting the man in his leadership role, nor the woman in her submissive one. There tends to be a hard vacillation between chauvinism and what is essentially modern feminism. Both ends of that spectrum have serious faults and miss out on the aspects of true masculinity and true femininity. What is it supposed to look like? Husbands are to be both leading and loving; wives are to be both feminine and wild. That's a really limited nutshell to put them into, but I find myself again drawn to Wild at Heart and Captivating as fantastic books that speak very directly at the heart, the core identity, of men and women respectively.

All in all, I wish you well. I notice a lot of turmoil in your life to date, lady, and I hope you can garner some peace and some conviction out of all of it.

 

Some quick questions. did she have an interest in you before kids? and was sex good before kids?

I don't really know your situation , but are you being used as a sperm donar?


Your story is similar to my life ATM. We have 2 kids, 3 years and 7 months. Ever since our first one was born our intimate life has been dismal/pitiful.I have been starving for love and attention.we have even been sleeping apart for the past 3 years (kids in the middle). She has no initiative or shows any behavior towards meeting my needs which makes me depressed. The kids get all the love.It has even been at the stage where i have really thought about leaving her. I have had offers from other women but i have stayed strong and kept myself true to her. I consider myself a good husband putting her and the kids first always, and being there when she needs me.

It drives you insane. Because you think that you don't deserve this and that you are missing out.And i too started to hate /resent her for it...

Things started to change a few months ago when i sat down with her and we had a non-emotionally charged conversation ( hard to do when there hasn't been sex in months/years). I told exactly how i felt and then listened to her side of it as well. She said basically she still loves me and that she misses me too but the tiredness, the hormonal changes and the fact that there is always a baby touching her meant that she hasn't got any motivation to get affection from me or to give any either. she is just tired ALL THE TIME. Women don't want love when they are tired. I also set a rule: we must spend at least 15mins a day together alone. Which we do.
Since we talked I have noticed changes in her attitude towards me and she gives some more time now. It is still a situation where i have to ask for affection but at least there is change happening.The 15mins at the end of the day means we can 'check in on each others feelings' and see if things are ok with each other. I have found from these talks that being a full time mum is probably one of the most demanding jobs and that she is call 24/7.

Accepting the situation for the way it is helps me to get over the resentment and get on with other things, also to think of it as a challenge of life that will pass one day...but there has to be a one day.

I am not saying this will help you out but if you know her side and she knows yours and nothing changes then ...



Stay strong man, and remember your happiness is most important, non negotiable.

CK

 

I think this may get some flack, but here goes; It's important for children to know boundaries. The mother and father have to have a close relationship and make each other the priority. Not only will the children see how a man is to love his wife, but it also shows them how the wife is supposed to treat her husband. If they don't see that, then they'll have no clue and they'll also expect full acknowledgment and expect all the attention.

You have to let your spouse be number one. Yes, the kids are extremely important, but that being said, your relationship with your spouse has to be of top importance. Christian or not, this idea is very important to remember. It allows you to acknowledge your partner's needs, and put them first. They need to know that you're still in love, and that you're willing to do the things you used to before the kiddies came along. Once they move out, you both are on your own again - and that closeness is essential for the both of you.

As far as no love when tired - I love love all the time. lol I love to give it and receive it when I possibly can. I hate the feeling of not showing or giving it, empathy, love, respect, adoration. It's all important. And it's important to remember that you are the only person in this relationship, whether you're the husband or wife.

 

A question I have for the original poster is this, "Was the sex always bad from the start, or has it gotten progressively worse?" Another way, "Was there ever a time you were super in passionate love with each other early on?"

I'm curious to know the answer. Thanks. All the best.

 

ChundaKing -
A piece of unsolicited advice, get those darn kids out of the bed.(!!) (jk, that's your business entirely)
And/or... put a little lock on the top inside of a room or walk-in closet, so mom&dad can comfortably retire for a quick "private talk" whenever. Much better than waiting until bedtime, when she's extra-tired. Interrupting the cooking of dinner may be necessary, but so worth it.

 

My wife has a drastically lower sex drive than I do; she likes to have sex about once every 6 weeks, me once or twice a day. So, it's been every 6 weeks for about the last 6 years. I've cheated a lot because I was very attached to sex (you can read my journal if you're interested). Now I'm doing NoFap because there are more important things than sex. Everyone has a point in their life when they're never going to have better sex, and I've already reached that point. The best sex of my life is definitely behind me, and I just have to look forward to other things. It really doesn't matter if I never have sex again for the rest of my life; I will have a great relationship with my wife either way. I guess what I'm saying is, sex doesn't have to be important, and you don't have to do it. A lot of people have normal, healthy sex lives, but I don't seem to be able to do that. Sex has never really brought me anything but misery. For me, it's easier to just quit than to spend my time and energy to try to have a "good sex life," which will almost certainly never happen. So, I'm giving it up and that's okay. It's a hobby that I don't have, like swimming or badminton.

If your partner wants a good sex life and isn't getting it, then that can be harder. I'm lucky in that my wife doesn't really care.

 

I've read the five love languages as well.great book.