Outgrowing the need for porn, To Be a Man

Great post. I've seen this book around a few times. Would you recommend it to others?

And I 100% agree with your perspective. A lot of people think they can just slap a content blocker on their computer and call it good. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. To break an addiction as toxic as pornography, you need to make a complete 180 in your lifestyle. It's all about inward change and mindset.

Thanks for your post!

 

This is what I have been saying all along. You have to go deep down inside you and make a real decision! I do not believe in regulating or banning porn, but I do believe everyone has a responsibility to not fall prey to it, because doing so supports an industry that is murky at best and at worst, exploits women, uses them in their youth and prime, and discards them after their use has expired. Every time you view porn you are supporting the abuse of women! You can try and rationalize it away, but that is all you are doing, rationalization!

You have to really man up. Be a MAN damn it! Real men don't use porn. Real men love women and treat them with the respect they deserve.

 

Thanks for sharing this. What you're saying is so true. The urge/temptation will always be there. We need to actually outgrow it. Mentally and spiritually. The book you're reading sounds interesting. I think I'll check it out.

 

I think the issue of outgrowing porn and objectification of women is an important one and kind of tricky to articulate. I'm still working through my own issues. What I notice is that my initial impulse toward any woman I encounter is to consider whether I want to bang her. Now it would be very easy to demonize me for this impulse and say that I'm just an asshole or an animal or something, but I don't think that's fair. After all, we're talking about millions of years of evolution that are designed to promote the continuation of the species first. Ensuring the emotional well-being of others, namely women, isn't as strong a consideration evolutionarily.

Now consider how society and technology have evolved. Men and women's roles have changed, and women are no longer dependent on men the way they were when survival was based more on physical strength (hunting and agriculture) and the ability to defend a tribe from its neighbors. Furthermore, women have made great progress to secure equal rights politically and economically. Women still want relationships with men, but demand that the interpersonal dynamic be on more of an equal playing field. As an old friend observed, men will agree to relationship in order to get sex, and women will agree to sex in order to get a relationship.

What does this mean for NoFap? In my opinion, NoFap is all about making the sincere effort to be able to set aside one's sexual desires and short-term gratification in order to be kind and loving toward all people, especially women, whether or not one is getting the gratification one wants. That's it. When I was more addicted to porn, I was constantly feeling sorry for myself for not having a girlfriend. And this self-pity served as justification to abuse myself through porn, which resulted in all of the addiction related brain changes that you read about online. So here we have a vicious cycle that results in a sub-optimal experience of day to day living.

Now that I am on the path of recovery, I have made the conscious decision that my day to day happiness will not be determined by my sexual gratification. Women are not the source of my happiness or my misery. As a result, women are more friendly and responsive to me, and I'd say that they are more attracted to me as well, but they're not exactly jumping over themselves to bang me either. Forget about super powers. Focus on happiness for happiness sake regardless of whether your urges or cravings are being met. In the end, that's all they are, urges and cravings. Do you want to be miserable because you're have animal urges and cravings just like the rest of humanity? Feel free,but I've decided it's not for me.

 

Well said. I have often wondered what else I might have done with all this "energy." My friends and I joke that we could have cured cancer by now or maybe invented the first actual warp drive or anti-gravity machine... For me personally, I have used fap as I have used alcohol and food--to deaden feelings. And I wonder there also, what have I lost touch with? Because you don't just cover up the bad, you cover up the good as well. I am hopeful that if I can just go long enough, I do come out the other side, looking at many things differently: sex, women, relationship. Some advice given to dieters is to pause at the fridge and ask, "Am I really hungry?" and "What am I hungry for?" Fap is like that. I ask myself "What are you really hungry for?" I suspect the answer is not what I am about to do, but something else altogether. Something deeper. Spiritual maybe. There's an old psychological idea that says that if we can just maintain "the tension of the opposites" in our minds, that is, tolerate the conflict of opposing drives and desires long enough, there is a new psychological constellation that emerges--kind of like cooking something--applying enough heat and pressure until the final product appears. I am at day 57 and find that I still have nights especially where my thoughts and feelings are dominated by desire, hunger, longing. I am not sure what to do with all of it...

 

"After all, we're talking about millions of years of evolution that are designed to promote the continuation of the species first. Ensuring the emotional well-being of others, namely women, isn't as strong a consideration evolutionarily."

I think it's important to understand that community and the well being of others was paramount in early humans. If you read Darwin's theory of evolution, community plays a HUGE role in assuring the survival of the species. It is observed in many many animal groups. So many people just take that one phrase "survival of the fittest" and think that's the whole book but it isn't. That phrase fuels capitalism so it's used often. Think about it, if you impregnate 50 women but 48 of them get eaten by lions then you haven't protected your genetic heritage. Doesn't mean women can't protect themselves but men and women were part of a community of people that protected each each other.

 

Even though this is usually atrtributed to Darwin, most agree it was not a quote from him. At any rate, it is true wisdom:

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change." -- unconfirmed Charles Darwin

 

Thanks for the recommendation, Andrew, I have ordered the book. Another book that is kind of related that I have always enjoyed is called We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love, by Robert Johnson. He is a Jungian analyst that uses the myth of Tristan and Iseult to explain some of our projections in relationship. I find it helpful to take apart some of my fantasies about specific women. Underneath or in addition to the addictive / compulsive aspects of Fap is projection. We're looking for something within us that we project onto someone else. This has a ton of applications, but certainly within relationships and attraction. Add to that a million years of evolution beckoning us to perpetuate our genes and you're gonna have trouble!!

 

Andrew: I got this book on your recommendation and it looks great. I was rereading an old book this week called "We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love" by Robert Johnson. It's a Jungian exploration of love and romance and totally fascinating. It reminds me of the deeper meaning of things, the opportunity for growth that we are missing--of how much of our behavior is unconscious. It helps me both de-romanticize and de-sexualize relationships. Good stuff. Getting back to Man Book today.

 

Thanks for sharing this book and providing helpful information on its content. I will have to archive this book for a future read. The best of luck to all of us!

 

Hey FapistMonk.

Thanks for the recommendation of "We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love." Definitely a read that I'd be interested in!

 

"What am I hungry for?" What a great question to ask oneself when tempted to watch porn/edge/masturbate. For me, it's been due to feelings of loneliness, low self-esteem, and insecurities within myself. I'm currently working on a "Self love" project. Each day I perform one act that promotes self love. This has been a great help for me and my journey. I assume that there are many others who may be hungry for the same thing. Regardless of what you're hungry for though, it's definitely a hunger. And as you stated, once the hunger can be identified, you're on your way to healing. Great post man. Good luck to us all!

 

I just finished this book for about the 4th time in my life. It's one of those books that I reread and am surprised at all I don't remember reading the last time! I think it's because I wasn't ready for what it was saying. But I find it so helpful in helping me see how much I project onto women (all the time), and how I am always seeking some kind of completion and wholeness in others, vs looking inside . An old friend once said "What you are looking for isn't out there." And I believe it. But I am always a bit alarmed by how much I seek outside myself that is not to be found there. This helps.