Here's something you probably haven't heard

So the bird is the word... So to speak.

That's interesting, so they recognize it's an issue there. And even with this practice how well do they tend to do?

 

If it's an honor system, who would willingly subject themselves to public shaming is my question? If I had to tell my Pastor or Men's Group every time I relapsed, I probably would "never" relapse either.

 

Beyond the immediate social container there are implications as to whether something can hinder though, even if it is a general attitude and how that affects the beliefs of people who take those norms as a given truth. (speaking generally and not about this situation)

In a way this is of course the opposite of the principle of anonymity. In a typical recovery meeting people share voluntarily, which of course is less rigorous and might take much longer for someone to work up to even the first sharing - heck even the first time they go to a meeting. And at the same time, we know they used to have this practice where they make the aspirant wait outside for 3 days before letting them in, such practices are not for the faint of heart.

So while this isn't for everyone, and I'm sure nobody would claim it is - neither is it preached as "the way" for all people who want to quit - some people DO pretty much think their system and way of thinking is the only way and/or refuses to do the work to consider any other way since it is the most prevalent, I am of course speaking of 12 Step fellowships. Let me be perfectly clear and make a distinction between the PEOPLE there and the system itself, and I don't think it's easy to say one is good and the other is not - it just depends on how any given group or individual understands and practices it, which varies widely.

My point here is there's not just the accountability of individuals within a particular group, the group itself has an accountability toward society and how it presents if it's going to claim to have even a solution, let alone imply they have the solution even if they don't explicitly state that outright. Sure, people in general are very keen on speaking for themselves, using I statements and so on - but if there is the attitude in the sentence described in the previous statement to any extent then they, as a group should be ready to have that challenged and answered in the greater arena. The personal container of speaking for oneself does not answer for the group entity accountability.

 

Looking at this system functionally we can see the possibilities: Since it is an honor system, people have to either subject themselves to the social fabric or sit with the dishonesty. If they subject themselves to the social container by confession, there are also two trajectories: They can either have the collective peer pressure keep their behavior in check, or they can develop towards the direction where they don't care what other people think. While the latter is less likely even if it happens it isn't a possibility that is necessarily exclusively bad, because after all this is in the context of people aspiring to go beyond ego and a limited sense of self, even if it is one tied in with that small collective group.

There is a possibility of some kind of split in the psyche instead of just transcending it though, which is concerning. While there are a good number of spiritual leaders who are psychologically savvy and may be able to qualify for it being appropriate or not given a particular person and situation, it doesn't seem all of them have taken it upon themselves to learn psychology even if that doesn't have to mean getting a graduate degree. So there is a chance where this can go awry and even the supervisory leadership doesn't know what to do about it when it does. Of course a milder version would just be something of a double life, or I guess we can say a discrepancy between how the monk/aspirant presents to their community outwardly and what they do in private, to whatever extent they have privacy in that context.

 

Damn Garek, you sure do get around. A spy, a tailor, and now living amongst monks? Is there anything you cant do?

 

I haven't even gotten far enough to find a woman to lose, so you are ahead of me on that front.

 

You're showing an extreme bias for NoFap. Masturbation is not an issue. And monks have been around way longer than porn has.

 

.. What part of what you quoted indicates I'm 'showing an extreme bias for Nofap'? You do realize I'm just replying to what someone else posted right? Did you even mean to quote my reply??

Edit: oh the words 'they recognize it's an issue' , those 5 words mean extreme bias to you? Really? You do know this site people talk about PMO and not P only, so it's not exactly new regardless of who we're talking about - even if it's just a thought experiment.

 

In case it isn't obvious I'm not the one Instituting that policy, neither is Garek he's just one that was there.

 

Now what would Q do with the whole PMO thing..

 

Yeah and this is a PORN addiction site. NoFap has no stance on masturbation.

 

And as you are probably aware each persons view is their own, whether real or hypothetical. I didn't see anyone say they represent official position of NoFap. Do you feel that needs to be pointed to at every turn as a PSA or something?

 

You're stating without proof that masturbation is an issue. All I'm saying is not everyone agrees with that.

 

site is called no"fap"

what did fap mean again?

 

I'm saying in Garek's story they recognize it as an issue, which is what the story says before I replied - isn't it? Slightly different verbiage maybe this suits you better.

So basically it comes down to the use of one word you're taking issue with - is instead of as.

If it'll make you happy though no, I don't think masturbation in itself is a problem - but realistically it is most likely really tied up with porn.

Of course, this isn't really what this thread is about as a whole. Taking one point out of context just ignores most of the discussion. Is this really worth it?

And yes, NoFap does imply that. Apparently that is the difference between the position of the NoFap community and the PornFree one, on reddit.

 

That's very interesting. I would love to read more of your entire experience. I've been trying to bring much more right concentration and effort to my practice and deepen my progress.

I'm also assuming the monks refrain from indulging in Kanar and games of Dabo as well.