On celebrating women

I had an interesting experience a few years ago where I got in trouble with the University I was attending because I was sending emails to some of the female students and teachers. My emails were my attempt of celebrating how beautiful I thought they were but I guess they ended up creeping them out instead. I was chastised by the head of the department and another teacher who was clearly an angry feminist who thought I was objectifying them. I was told to stop emailing them. It made sense, it was an inappropriate way of expressing myself, so I did. But what continued in my mind was confusion of the difference between objectifying women and celebrating them. Now that I'm a regular on this forum, I frequently see things like "don't stare at women" or "PMO will make you more susceptible to objectifying them". Eeeeh, maybe, but my experience is different so far.

I always look at women, if just for a few seconds, but I always look at her with appreciation welling deeply in my heart. I also only look at her face as I absolutely LOVE women's eyes. To me this is celebrating her. I'm not thinking about having sex with her, even though I do feel attracted to her, I'm absolutely loving the moment where I'm looking at her. She's so beautiful and graceful and it makes my heart dance. That's not objectification. I do the same with a sunset or a really pretty group of flowers. I'm not thinking about porking a sunset when I'm looking at it, I'm taking it in and letting its beauty flow through me. That's how I think about women. Yeah, there are times when I can't help but take a quick gander at a nice pair breasts, and, I admit, that's a little objectifying, but for the most part, my gaze is steeped in appreciation and celebration. What do you guys think about the difference between celebrating a woman and objectifying her?

 

I disagree. Objectification is not merely seeing something or someone as an object, but something or someone as something you can USE. When person objectifies another person, they are literally thinking about how that person can be of use to them. If you're sexually objectifying a woman, you are thinking about all the ways they can pleasure you sexually.

I can see where you're coming from, though. Looking at a woman's physical appearance is certainly in line as seeing them as an object, but if you look at a woman and feel how beautiful she is in your heart, you're not seeing her as an object, you're seeing her as the beautiful person she is and appreciating how amazing it feels to be around her. That's an amazing gift. But that's all in the first few seconds you see her. If you keep looking at her as a beautiful object, than it just turns awkward and objectifying and she'll notice that (and maybe like it. All women are different). You must go deeper and learn and celebrate who she is as a person, as well. She is an entire beautiful universe just unto herself. Do this and you are truly celebrating her not only as a beautiful woman, but as a beautiful person.

The key to this, I think, is in the genuine feeling in your heart and body instead of just looking her with your head. There is a tangible difference between a man who looks at a woman with intense feeling in his heart and body and a man who looks at woman while completely in his head. One of them is a complete turn on and the other is just creepy.

 

You misunderstand me. Celebrating a woman is not about appreciating just how they look, but EVERYTHING that is about them, even how they look.

Yeah, I was a cowardly little shit back then. Still am as I still find myself becoming paralyzed not only around women but around most other people as well. I never understood that unsolicited emails were creepy. I thought my words would be enough to convince them that I was just trying to pay them a compliment. Turns out the ass kicking I needed was to be lectured to by the head of my department. It really sucked. But I really did appreciate them for more than just their looks.

 

No one so far is understanding where I'm coming from and I think I may have miscommunicated what I really wanted to say and started a thread about "objectification" vs "celebration" when that wasn't really what was on my mind. I even gave an example of when I was being stupidly creepy because I thought that history would add to my point. It didn't. Huge fail there. But I'm going to try again and I'm not going to base this on the words objectification vs celebration but instead authenticity and see what happens. Celebration and objectification will still appear but they are not the key points.

When I was 26 I learned about a "business" who taught men how to attract women by being authentic. This is misleading because what they're really doing is teaching men how to become better men and better people. Women being attracted to them is the wonderful bonus of the work. This "business" is called AMP, or Authentic Man Program. The men that came up with this are amazing men. They are kind, empathetic, strong [as in, not afraid to feel EVERYTHING] and live very happy lives with women and men in their lives who trust them and love to be around them. I believe in these men and I believe in the principles of authenticity they teach. These principles are what I based this thread on.

These principles are Presence, Appreciation, Integrity, Play and Wholeness, in that order. Without Presence, you cannot Appreciate, without Appreciation you cannot be in your integrity and so on and so forth. For example: If you are in the presence of a beautiful woman, your Presence allows you to feel everything you feel in the moment about her. Your Appreciation has you, well, appreciating everything about her that makes your body tingle or whatever sensation you feel. Your Integrity allows you to stay in that feeling without shying away. If you can do this in the presence of a woman, chances are high she will be incredibly attracted to you. Not only that, but living authentically like this is one of the most rewarding ways to exist. You feel everything even the bad. You appreciate everything and see the best of even the smallest things. It's wonderful!

I think I was mistaken to say that celebration and objectification are separate in these instances. They aren't. You are going to objectify her a little bit, but you know what? That's okay. It's okay because that's only part of the package of appreciating her as a person. The rest of the celebration comes from learning about her and being fascinated and curious about her thoughts, her life, her dreams, her beliefs, every damn thing that is a part of her universe. And she will notice this and she will appreciate you for doing this. It's almost guaranteed. Being a genuinely authentic man will make your life better.

The thing that I should've realized sooner is that this forum is not for this interaction with the opposite sex. Men and women here are suffering from addictions brought on by porn consumption and they don't need any advice on how to trigger those feelings to fap easier than it is now. For that, I apologize, guys. But I will not stand down in my belief that being an authentic man and celebrating the amazing sensations that come from looking at and experiencing everything a woman and other men make me feel, is an amazing thing which I think every person on this site should embrace. If you want to call this worship or objectification, than so be it. I'm okay with that because I know in my heart that while I am relishing the feelings that come from appreciating the beauty that a woman brings just by existing, I am also appreciating her as a human being and a person. And you know what also? I can also not masturbate to those feelings when they come up because I'm strong enough to say, "fuck you habit. I'm done listening to you." THAT'S Integrity and I'm full of that awesome shit. I'm not perfect to be sure, but I wear and practice not only Integrity, but Presence and Appreciation, too.

I have a long way to go before I'm even close to the guys I learned from, but that's why I'm here on NoFap. I may have learned some great lessons but I still ruined the chance to use them effectively by giving in to all the habits that have weakened me to the state I'm in now. But I WILL get better and I WILL use what I learned to better not only myself but the people around me. I hope this clears everything up. Oh, and fuck that guy who emailed all the ladies because he was too depressed and anxious to have the courage to say those things to their face. He doesn't exist anymore. I exist now and I'm the one who is going to change things around. I learned my lesson well.

Thanks for your opinions and shares, guys! It was a little difficult to be challenged at first but I'm glad you did. You set my thinking straight.

 

First, please don't talk about me like I don't exist. I read this too and you're talking about me indirectly. Second, you don't know ANY of the men you're making all these assumptions about. I know them and they're the most respectful individuals you will ever meet. None of them are about "scoring pussy" as you so eloquently put it.

Furthermore, your comment about "without even knowing them they become goddesses" is a load of horseshit brought on by the very fact that you've never even met these individuals. These men, including me, take the time to know the individual person who is in front of them, be it woman or man. It is part of the practice to understand the world that is the person in front of them. That is a kind of respect (and celebration) that is really, really rare these days. There is no "manipulation" because they are genuinely and authentically interested in the people they talk to. They treat women as people, not sexual objects, even if they feel the pure rush of desire in their body.

These guys are NOT players. They give respect a whole new meaning.

 

I don't understand this. How did you come to the conclusion that you're a degenerate man because of what I wrote? I'm really sorry if my writing brought you down, I really, really didn't want to do that for anyone.

 

Good point on all counts. I do take things personally... in my non-forum life too. A side-effect of the fapping, I'm thinking. I still feel bad about David, though. Thank you for this.

 

I'm sick and tired of everybody twisting my words into meanings they weren't intended to have and treating me like I'm some sort of "player" who doesn't understand how to truly treat women. I sincerely regret ever posting this topic and I'm officially finished watching this thread. You guys go on and bash my beliefs all you want, I'm not gonna be a part of this anymore.