Is porn the problem or is it masturbation?

I'm glad you bring up the question. I cannot give a answer that is as definite as those given here before me (apparently some people here know things that I don't), but I feel that there might be a valuable insight in trying to give an answer to that question.

When I started with NoFap, first I told myself that I want to give up Pornography, not masturbation. Then people told me that it's no use because M leads to P. And I believe they were right and they are right still. I'm now doing the challenge with neither pornography nor masturbation.
I have good reason to believe that for me, both are destructive things.

When I say things like that, I really mean that, given my subjective feeling in a specific moment, I believe porn is as bad as masturbation. Similarly, watching YouTube is bad for me, so is playing computer games.
I think it's quite likely that for a lot of people, masturbation is not a problem and they masturbate in a healthy manner without pornography. For them, it's purely physiological. (This is unlike your situation - porn without masturbation - but like in my initial assumption, before NoFap).

In principle, for others it can be the other way round. E.g. when I think of couples that watch porn together as part of foreplay or whatnot.

I don't watch porn nor do I masturbate and I would consider either of those things a relapse. My situation seems to be that my sexuality is fucked up on a whole different level and both, masturbation and pornography are habits (that appear together) and keep me in this state of perpetual loneliness and fantasy. That is the fantasy of having a whole world solely designed to please me sexually whenever I'm horny. As long as I could contain this fantasy in my privacy, no-one would bother.
But well, we all know here that there is a quite considerable impact from a pornography- or masturbation habit on real life. There are things like shame, and the whole self-confidence thing ...

Long story short:

I want to learn about those questions more. My way of learning is: Trying without porn and without masturbation and then look at the results. Maybe some lucky day I might return to either one habit in a healthy way. At the moment, I believe my life is healthier without either of them and ideally I would also permanently give up on YouTube, Facebook, computer games, and other "lonely-activities" (like today: programming, other times: reading). All of that in favor of more social activities and generally a goal-directed life.

Final note:

There are of course also stories of sex addicts who are in relationships, not watching porn, even performing well sexually. Even those people (who, from my perspective must be the happiest people on the planet) sometimes have deep issues and try to reboot. Those issues can ultimately be the reasons for break-ups or sustained but unhappy relationships. The more "normal" the life looks from the outside (relationship, sex, no porn) the easier it is to cover shit up.

 

But if it was not for the fact that one could mastrubate to it, porn would probably not feel very interesting, either...Porn must be considered a terribly boring thing by everyone not able to feel sexually stimulated by it.

 

masturbation is natural and comes more often than not before porn? Well, it was the case back in my days....that was before the internet.
You can masturbate without wifi or any electronics...so basically, addiction to orgasm is possible without porn.

 

When I was younger I think it was masturbation. We didn't have internet nor did I have magazines. When I turned 21 I was so curious about sex I called phone sex (got a penthouse from my brother). After I made that call I was hooked. It was so easy and I was in control. No worries about rejection. No arguments. I could hang up the phone if I didn't like her.

This unfortunately has be a bad experience for me. I didn't develop a way to deal with a woman. I guess most men don't. With a 50% divorce rate in this country some things wrong and pmo maybe a part of that. Who knows? I can just take my inventory and say I need to work on this issue. For me at this time in my life it's pmo that I have a problem with.

At the end of the day. We define ourselves! If you think you just have a problem with M and not P. I understand cause I've been there. It's your call. I still look at porn and sometimes get a mental imagine of someone else and that allows me to O. It's all it the mind.

I'm trying to pick up the pieces to give it another go. Made it to day 6 then lost it.

 

This is a particularly interesting question and an interesting thread. I would say that of all I have read that the thing that gets closest to my issue is what Porn Free Wanderer said about it being a high.
When I think back to my earliest recollections of this behavior it began as most things do, out of innocence. I found some material and it gave me a hard on and that was it. But it became clear to me that it felt great and I could do it whenever I wanted to. So its the high that did it for me. Then it slowly became the combination of the material or the fantasy and the act itself. Having regular sex didnt seem to make a difference, just as working as a bartender wont stifle your desire to drink a beer. I had to do it. I also think that as a young man and being intensely horny all the time really reinforced the whole enterprise for me.
I am more than a month without incident. I have never been able to say that untill now and its been some 30 years. I have gotten my addictions under control and PMO has been comparably easier to control this time I think due in large part to the fact that my libido is perhaps not as active. Even so I have been "touched" by the desire to seek out questionable material which will undoubtedly lead to a PMO, so I have had to be especially vigilant. It is a very subtle and nefarious thing if your not paying close attention to it.
I should also say that though I have had the idea to simply masturbate, but its just not as intriguing anymore. Whereas if I were to go online and find some content, it would be very,very difficult to prevent. So for me its the high, but the masturbation would follow the porn directly. It all seems to be linked.

 

IMHO neither necessarily has to be a problem. Using the resulting dopamine high to cover up other issues in isolation is. As these things are hardly ever discussed in public I don't know whether there is such a thing as "safe porn use". Also, masturbation per se doesn't necessarily have to be a problem and may well be part of a healthy sex life. If used as a coping mechanism for other issues however, is most certainly will become an issue. For a (former) addict, I strongly believe, both are unsafe.

 

The true drug is orgasm.
Basically you are after the hormones which are produced during an orgasm.

But: Nature has intended us to have sex with a partner, not alone. Orgasm feels totally different, much more "complete", when together with a women in a solid loving relationship, rather than alone.

In other words: If you masturbate, you are getting only a part of the whole. You know this consciously and subconsciously - and this give us that unhappy feeling that something is missing.

IMHO, the real big issue with PMO is that we are in fact alone. PMOers are disconnected from partners and society, we are missing important parts of social life.

 

Don't take it personal OP, as I'm just another faceless voice on the internet, but you are using your G/F as an excuse to seek PMO, when it should be her that gets you off (and vice versa) without the materials.

Porn isn't the Kama Sutra. Its not teaching or educating in a non-stimulating way. It's the produced sexual fantasies of the masses designed for M. It's designed for sexual stimulation in a graphic way. As a result, people treat their bodies like joyrides and damn the consequences.

In my view, M is a natural response of the body as it goes through puberty and matures into adulthood. There were times where porn wasnt readily available 24/7 and people had to make considerable effort to find it, so that led me to believe that M was very much doable without P. It becomes much more of a trained response to seek M and O when searching for P.

You have to separate the P before you can control the M and the O.

 

Of course it is. It always was. But when your fantasy is not stimulated with high-speed internet porn, then you more likely to have it under control.

Masturbating means to have sex with a ghost. You are missing so many other aspects of good sex in a healthy relationship, so it's really worth to invest into a real good partnership.

 

well put - i hope that this streak will lead me to freedom from this affliction.

 

This is a fascinating thread.
I'm pretty well off a P addiction.
If I M solo, then I deprive my SO of my energy, and our intimacy suffers.
I believe solo M to be the next challenge for me.
I've some thinking to do here.

 

At original poster and original post. As a species, we have learned to use hypersexual thoughts, artificial sexual stimulation, to get a dopamine high/rush. We can get that with actual sex, but not as much, not as long, not as sustained, not as prolonged, not as profound. High Speed Internet Porn, and the MO that usually comes with it, allow for that dopamine spout to stay wide open, multiple times a day, for years. So, technically, when you ask, is it porn or is it MO, (or is it PMO), it is none of those things. Bottom line, we use those things to give ourselves a sexual thought, and the thought itself is "rewarded" with a dopamine rush. Simple neurobiology. We, as a species, always liked that dopamine rush, but with the invention of HSIP, we invented a way to get it way too often, way too easily, thus the addiction.

 

I think if you are having passionate sex with your girl and you connect deeply mentally. There is no need for porn.

Porn to spicy things up like develop a fetish together. I wonder where people get the idea of a threesome hmmmm...... I'm guessing from porn.

Why do you really need porn if you have a nice girlfriend. Instead of watching porn when she is not with you wait and bring that to the bedroom with her when you are having sex. You will be horny as hell since you waited.

Masturbation in itself is not bad in my opinnion if you do it without porn and do not overdo the masturbation aspect.

 

I don't think Porn or Masturbation are the problem, these things are the symptoms. The fault lies inside of each and every one of us of misunderstanding something about our makeup at a fundamental level. Semen contains with it life giving force and when retained enhances every aspect of your being.

You shouldn't lust after anyone but instead approach life more consciously and have sex out of love or real intimacy. I say this because i've tried obtaining happiness from jerking off to porn but haven't achieved it, so i tried another way and so far it's working out great.

 

Solo M when you are in a relationship is a cop out.

Simple but true.

 

For me, MO is worse than porn.

 

What is the other way? I'm happy MO to porn

 

If you wish to continue to MO to porn and are happy about it I don't know what you are doing on a forum where the main objective is to quit porn. Look at what your semen is made up of. Read the countless stories of people that have experienced miracle results on yourbrainonporn.com.

 

Both I would say. The combination is deadly.

 

both~ porn make you do M and M make you like pathetic lonely man

we should be an Alphaman (or ultraman)