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A friend got brainwashed by some Landmark Forum-ish course. What should I do?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Phantompoint, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys, so I have started doing Nofap for a while with the longest streak of 40 days. I must say it was quite a while ago but now I can easily abstain from PMO for at least 2 weeks before another relapse. I gain clarity from my day to day life and I am able to think twice before doing something. And all thanks to Nofap, I found out one of my friends was luring me to join a course that is more or less equivalent to Landmark Forum, although branded with a different name. I will just call it 'the course' hereafter.

    Some of you might have heard about Landmark or Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT). Some people learned a lot from them, some people think they are just commercial cults trying to earn money by brainwashing people. To be honest, I am more on the latter since I learn that you will eventually be given a task to 'bring people' into joining the course. I don't care what they taught in the course, but bringing people to something that requires one to pay over a thousand dollars sounds a lot like a cult than a simple self-improvement course.

    So I have a friend whom I have known since elementary school and I am 26 now, that's almost 20 years of friendship right there. We bumped into each other few weeks ago and then after a small chat, we decided to have a drink. We haven't talked that much after graduating college. The last time I saw her was a year ago. We sat down in a coffee shop and we ordered a cup of coffee and a pot of English tea. We talked about a lot of stuff, what has changed and what has not. She went on and started talking how great she is doing and she is able to earn a lot more than most of her peers. I was impressed. As a long time PMOer, I am still more or less an introvert, graduated with mediocre GPA, not working at a job that I enjoy, earning below average college graduates, still playing video games and I still often think like an kid instead of a grown man. Basically the opposite of her. However, for some reason, she was still able to draw similarities between us, kept repeating 'I was once like you'. So eventually I couldn't resist to ask 'what's your secret', she then revealed what she was hiding all along and said there is a course out there that can help people like me to 'find the purpose in life'. I see the staggering difference between me and her and I had a strong urge to follow her, to become something like her.

    She continued and said she was originally on her way to this 'learning centre', and she asked me to join her. So I did. We came to a commercial building with modern design and marble interiors. We entered the office and she sat me down while chatting around with the staffs. People were warm and nice, giving me a nice welcome. My friend left the room for a while and came back with leaflets about the course. I read through the materials and realised something was missing, the brochures were nothing but inspirational statements like 'Your life begins to change now' or 'Join us and become the star that you are destine to be'. There was no course insight, no course highlights, just a timetable telling when to come and when to leave. Oh boy, the course was very demanding from what I read. The course is devided into three levels. For level one, 6 o'clock to 12 during weekdays and then 9 am to 11 pm during the weekend. For level 2, 9 am to 11 pm for the whole week. The course goes consecutively for 5 days for level one and 7 days for level two. The funny thing about level two is that you are more or less required to take leave from your work in order to join it, there is no way round.

    I made several questions regarding the course, but my friend was rather secretive about the course. She was basically saying she cannot tell me anything unless I join the course and pay them in full. I wasn't sure if it was the PMO I did last week that made me chicken out or Nofap gave me the clarity to step away from this. Prior to this, I had never heard of Landmark or LGAT or any equivalent but at that moment I knew there was something fishy going on. So I said I need to leave, I made up something saying there's a friend waiting for me. I heard there was something going on next door, some kind of ceremony, they called it 'graduation', I think it's a graduation ceremony for the participants? I wasn’t sure, but the good thing was that it kept them busy so I didn't face a lot of resistance to depart from the place.

    When I came back home, I google the name of the course and BAM!!! All I got were keywords such as 'Landmark', 'cult', 'life changing', 'brainwash', 'anxiety' and 'suicide'. Of course there were nicer things but apparently a lot of people think they are brainwashing participants in some ways and using them as tools to find new participants. Although it wasn’t very off-putting, it got me thinking why people critise it. At the same time I got a phone call, the same friend who took me to the learning centre told me to join her for a soccer match later that week, but I wasn't cautious enough to say no, I accepted her invitation and things just cannot get any weirder.

    The soccer match was nothing abnormal, we sat there and began with normal conversations. But eventually she started glorifying me. 'You know what? That day a lot of the guys were really impressed about you. They say you are "a star in the making". They see the potential shining within you.' I felt really 'weird', for one, I only spoke to three people, for two, PMO brought me many bad names, 'weirdo', 'geek', 'funky', 'nerd', 'introvert' and also 'ewwww'. Now someone is just calling the complete opposite. Again, I am not sure if it was nofap that gave me superpowers or biological attractions, but when someone reacts very differently compare to other people, your brain would turn on 'investigation mode' and be very cautious. She didn't stop, but she inevitably turns from glorifying me to caring about me and then end with ‘the course can save me’. 'Do you know why I want you to join the course? I want to help you, I want to save you. I care about you and your future.'

    The conversation lasted over half of the game and random people just start to join in the conversation. I soon realised the whole 'soccer match' was a side event organised by the course participants to 'strengthen their bond'. By the end of the game, they started to bombard me with life changing stories and how the course helped them from deep underground and rise, reborn like a heroes with bright destinies. I felt they are pushing me to join them, which I must say it felt uncomfortable. My brain alerts me to leave immediately. So I did. But this time I sense I lot more resistance. My friend asked me to stay so I can join them for dinner, her friends started to back her suggestion. I only turn the tides by using a '2 step back, 1 step forward' strategy. Appreciating everyone and their actions at the same time slowly back out. I made an escape right before the game ended.

    Now my friend would keep asking me out for a drink or a meal EVERY SINGLE DAY. I felt like I am her prey now and she has vowed to hunt me down. I came up with many excuses to refuse her, usually something regarding my demanding workload (which I do not have lol). Then she changed her strategy to calling me instead of texting me. Sometimes I pick up the phone, sometimes I don't. When I pickup, our conversation would start with normal stuff and eventually escalate to how magnificent the course would be. She is getting really annoying.

    What should I do? Should I block her contact? She was never that passionated about me. We had a long friendship yes, but was it a very deep one that inflicts her actions today? I am not sure. I think she has come to a point that I am no longer her friend, just the next companion for the course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  2. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    Sounds like they are just trying to take your money by giving you attention and praise. Just tell your friend you don't mind hanging out with her, but you will never ever join that group/course/class no matter what. Don't give any reason and make it sound super solid with no doubt in your voice. When people try to take money from you, and you get an alert in your head, there's a good reason. I bet she'll stop bothering you after that, but if she really wants to be your friend with the expectation that you'll never join, I don't see anything wrong with that.
     
  3. Run like hell man!! Sounds like your so called friend is part of the scam and gets a cut of the profit for every person she can recruit.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  4. In fact the more I think about it, the more this sounds like a pyramid scheme.
     
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  5. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    Yes, if you google Landmark Forum, some insiders who avoided being brainwashed said, at some point during the course, you are required to bring at least 3 people to join the the course to prove that the course actually taught you something. If everything works out, the 3 people you brought will each bring 3 other people to join, that’s 9 people. If it’s not pyrimid scheme I don’t know what is.

    http://ajithprasad.com/landmark-forum-review-scam-cult-pyramid-scheme/

    This is just one of many.
     
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  6. EyeofHorus26

    EyeofHorus26 Fapstronaut

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    You were smart enough to not fall for this pyramid scheme.Be honest with her.If she really is your friend ,she will understand.Also,I got a feeling that your friend has regrets joining this course.I had a similar experience with QNET.I was lucky not to join.
     
  7. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    I doubt that she would understand because I have been very blatant to her and she did back off a bit before returning to something about the course in a different conversation. I suspect she has problems dealing with people who haven't joined the course and surrounds by people who joined it. She is too zealous about the course and beyond my reach. I blocked her phone number and ignore all her text messages. I hope she would someday come to realise the truth.
     
  8. KS1994

    KS1994 Fapstronaut

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    "Love Bombing" is common behaviour among cults to gain and retain new initiates. Kudos for seeing through it.
     
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  9. EyeofHorus26

    EyeofHorus26 Fapstronaut

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    Yes lets hope.When these people realise that their actions have driven their friends and family away,they tend to get suicidal.If possible do help her out.
     
  10. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    I really want to help her out. After all, we have the longest friendship. However, as I said she is too zealous about the course right now and anything against the course would just lead to backfire and pointless arguments. I tried to talk her out but she defends the course viciously, saying 'you don't know about the course, I do', 'find out [the content of the course] yourself, you'll know I am right', 'you need to learn to accept new things'. Her arguments are based on the fact that I have never tried it out myself so I do not have a better knowledge than her and therefore I am not in a position to criticise the course. I think this is a method the 'cult' taught her when people try to attack the course and its credibility.
     
    EyeofHorus26 likes this.
  11. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    No need to try and get her out, she will maybe one day realize it herself. Who knows, she may come back into your life then as a real friend
     
  12. Fork2323

    Fork2323 Fapstronaut

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    Tell her you are intersted but dont have the funds right now and then flip it on her and Get Her to pay for it! Use all the tactics she tried on you back at her.. Well if you really think its that great and really carred about me.. Ask her to pull a collection from all her great friends there to pay it all for you. And say well if they are all so successful now they all have extra cash etc..
     
  13. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    Personally, I wouldn't do that
     
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  14. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    I'm not sure if she would do that, but the freakiest thing is that while I was researching about Landmark Forum and LGAT, people actually do that. Lending you money so that you can join for the cult/course. It's crazy man. CRAZY!
     
  15. Sounds like a classic case of "you cant help someone who doesnt want to be helped" to me.
     
  16. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    I think it is more like 'you can't help someone who doesn't KNOW that she needs help'.
    Update: I have been ignoring all her phone calls and text messages for about two weeks now and her enthusiasm on finding me has died down a bit. Maybe she realised I am not gullible enough to be tricked?
     
  17. Yeah, that too.
     
  18. That's nuts. Yeah stay away don't invest any more time. Tell her that I look at you as a friend, but you are not interested straight up and that you don't want to hear about it again and if she brings it up again I won't talk to you anymore. after that If she brings it up again Then block her.
     
  19. Phantompoint

    Phantompoint Fapstronaut

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    Been there. Done that. It's funny because it feels like what is left in her life is the course. I told her that I am not very happy about the fact that she ceaselessly bring up the training/course and she agreed she would keep it down. And then she texted me one day saying there is some pressing matter she would like to discuss on the phone. She made the call and we jumped around many subjects from work to work-life balance to overtime. However, it was generally about me instead of her. When I tried to revert the direction of our conversation, she usually reply with 'it's not the time yet' or 'you haven't finished'. I suspect this is a way for cultists to learn about you so that they can eventually grasp those information against you.

    It all went well until a point she told me the way I look at myself is miserable. I used to be a very cocky and aggressive person back at one point and I realised this won't work in society (maybe it can be attributed to fapping and subsequently losing my confidence). So I became more humble and more careful, take small risks and try to play safe when possible. She said I won't succeed with this attitude. She said she knows a way to change it and right before she bring up 'the Landmark training', I paused her and kindly reiterated I don't have the time to manage any study right now. The 'training' takes place between 6:30pm to 12ish, it's just not possible without being late when I often work until 6 or 7. She told me to imagine my parents are now severely sick and I was required to visit them everyday on or before 6:30. I know she was only making an analogy but I was a bit pissed that she used my parents for a metaphor, but I exaggerated my anger. I told her with a warning tone that I was extremely irritated by the way she brings up the course. Instead of apologising immediately, she shouted 'why are you so stubborn about change, I swear I will get you to the course and I mean it.' She revealed her true self and at that point I gave up and toned back down to a cold voice. I told her that's it, I have made myself crystal clear about my thoughts and that's good bye. She realised she said something irreversible, she apologised and tried to keep me on the line, but it was too late. I replied without any sense of emotion and said I need to go to bed. After the phone call, she texted me and said she was glad to talk with me for over two hours (that's actually the length of the conversation) and that's how much she cared about me. But I didn't feel the same. She kept calling me over and over the next few days but I didn't pick up. And then until a point I was so fed up by her calls I added her to my block list. It is sad to lose a friend, but I think I have lost her by the time when she decides to join the course/cult.
     
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