Questions for those who have used Shemale prostitutes

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by Luvspin68, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Wow.
    This is helpful; thanks for the feedback. please allow me to process this openly:

    Your SO, is not able to open up about this (past present issue).

    The best thing to do here is to ask why. I know nofap has brought me out of the dark ages with regard to being accepted and to be able to share what I have experienced.

    1). Men prioritize respect above love in order to trust.

    That is to say, he won’t say anything if he senses from either a persons words, body language, tone, etc that he will not be respected in what he says.

    So the first thing is to deal with how to respect him so that he will open up.

    2). Establish a motive for opening up. What reasons would he have to share with you? I know my wife would say vulnerability is the best precursor to real Intimacy. Porn requires secrecy which in turn destroys hope for trusting and any vulnerabiiity. So having a valid reason will keep this away from being a prying discovery exploration. My suggestion is to say : “ I want to accept you with what you have experienced for who you are.”
    Most men WANT to talk—- but they instinctively are either protecting you from their hearts or protecting themselves from your potential loss of respect.

    3). You need to recognize as his love interest you are asking him to show his failures. This is what women often miscalculate. Men want to be honest. They also realize they want to share without blowback. Finally, they don’t know to impress you WHILE telling you all their shitty failures. Most men bail on sharing because of this. So it might be best to have him come clean with someone else first to help grease the truth gears in his mind. Even writing down what he wants to share is a good start. You will probably get the most information when you show weakness and acknowledge that he had a right to keep things secret OR share them . Trying to force it out is a sure way to get any man to clam up.

    As for the repeat business question—- that tells me he was emotionally involved.

    I will say when I decided to stop watching porn it was relatively slow. But stopping to see prostitutes is more like a train coming to a stop. The momentum, the inertia of the feelings , trauma and pain that pushes us to stoop this low is incredibly entrenched. It may take a while to do fully. That may be why it’s hard to expose all the details.

    I encourage you though. Ask the questions without shaming him. The community here at nofap revolutionized me by treating me without shame. Countless good men here have changed my resistance to share because they respected me without using shame as a weapon.

    You can get the information you need —- it will be slow. But respect him and he’ll tell you anything.
     
  2. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    So much good information here.
    When you mentioned that stopping prostitutes is like a train stopping....etc. “it may take a while to do fully.”...... what did you mean?

    I try so hard to virtually never bring this up...... NEVER say anything negative about it. So he could maybe be open. I dont bring it up..... but I feel like I’m colluding with his denial in a way.

    Since it is so hard for him to talk about, I wrote down my questions. I’m not sure he will answer them.


    As a SO, do you think I should have a” full disclosure “? In treatment of SA this is quite standard. What’s your opinion?

    I’ve told him that in order to rebuild trust, I need him to be honest
    100 percent. Not minimize. How can I trust him moving forward if he is not?

    How much did you disclose to your wife when it all came out?

    My BF is big in the community, does charity work, was the ceo of a company. I think he has intense shame this was discovered. It’s So 100 percent opposite of how he projects himself. And the shame is not coming from me. It’s deep inside him.

    I really really appreciate your help.
    If he never opens up what do I do?
    Just carry on as it this never existed?

    It’s way too large an issue for me to sweep under the rug. Which is what he would like.

    Once again, your advice is invaluable.
     
    need4realchg likes this.
  3. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    I think you are asking the right questions. It’s hard to get good information without having to deal with addicts who are either still working through issues or denying they have them. Once you leave the “rat race” it can change and morph rather quickly. I know the counselor we visited years ago is very well known author, but even shared with me that These things evolve very quickly but obviously the basics are the same.

    I would say, I’m not a CEO, but very well respected in multiple circles including church ones—- so secrecy is particularly toxic.

    The key behind any person’s recovery is a need for transparency. I journal fairly extensively about how I lived like (and still have some elements of ) a double agent. My wife had to draw boundaries to protect herself. I am ferocious about beating this thing but doing it for me. IMO doing this for someone else, wife, kids, etc is subtle manipulation.

    But the disclosure is a good point let’s review that.

    The objective of a disclosure is what?
    The benefit for him is what?
    The benefit for you would be what?

    I have had engaging conversations here with many SO’s who advocate for disclosures but do not advocate for caveats to them.

    Meaning; I like Dr. Weiss who I usually cite as the sex therapist and expert on dealing with SA and PA people and couples. There is some good information on how to share your guilt and move past the shame.
    He is the one I usually quote to remind us that disclosure is a powerful tool and super helpful —- but even he does not always advocate its use. There are circumstances where it makes sense and then others where it doesn’t. He’s definitely a SO advocate and I think that’s good.

    He has a phrase that says: “you have heard getting touch with your inner child? I want you to get in touch with you innner asshole personality.” Meaning—- this is going to require accepting pain on a very deep level.

    Coping mechanisms are all about escaping pain.

    Years of escaping pain bring submarine like evasive maneuver whenever pain is spotted on the horizon. The guy screams dive dive dive and then his heart is gone and he is just a ripple on the water.

    You mention how do you bring it up? Trust comes before information.

    If he does not trust you here is what will happen:

    You: why did you talk with that prostitute last March?

    Him: I wanted an opportunity to just get away and forget my problems at the time.

    You: what problems ?

    Him: the one project at work that was stressing me out.

    You: the one with Microsoft?

    Him: no.

    In this manner you are pulling information. This means you have to be an expert interrogator to get access to the trove of memories that he has. Some of us repress this because of shame so it’s not on the subsurface.

    You need him to be honest a 100% yes, but what would he need to trust you 100%?

    You asked if you could be enabling him. Yes you could honestly , but you don’t have control over his actions either. You will need to set a boundary where you start and stop. I don’t mean in a bitchy way —- I mean in a loving “I want to help you with this , except I recognize where your personality begins mine needs to fade to black.” In other words—- he needs to be empowered to see he can make micro-choices around his behavior without losing you.

    What all men fear is: “if I tell her everything she’s gonna leave.”

    You dangled that to me in our first conversation and if I noticed it— perhaps he does too.

    You don’t appear to be married so maybe some reassurances would be good to say? What I’d want to hear in his position is : “I’m not planning on opening you up, scooping out all the dirt then leave you. I want to understand your books and crannies. I want to support you in a healthy way. I want to be your cheerleader not your teammate.”

    What many women indeed say is: “. I want to know what I’m dealing with. I have a right to know everything. I will make no guarantees until I get all the information.”

    So many times the guy shrinks down due to shame and the women inflates with indignation at being denied access to the “safe of info.”

    You will need to honestly find out how to grow trust to get him to open up you directly. Alternatively, you can ask to involve a friend or person he chooses to practice on.

    I found journaling so helpful. I am an managing executive and travel internationally a lot. I ended up having multiple girlfriends in different countries , I joke it is like a real James Bond. To keep everything straight I had to compartmentalize. To just be one person feels so easy but it requires so much more pain, honesty. I had to squeeze my buttcheeks together (figuratively) to start to unpack my memories, and journaling here in nofap was helpful.

    You asked about the train stopping...
    I mean that quite literally.
    Some SA’ s do their escapades without any planning but others have to plan it —- months in advance. For me , the future plans made it hard to reveal everything. I was thinking of what I wanted to do in the future and felt powerless to let the person down or to change the plans that I lusted after.

    I was honest with my wife for a while until it just was too much. I was honest with my dad too, but once I shared about this (trans) element he admitted it was too much for him too. I now know , it is not the amount of information shared that is important it is the quality of information.

    You have to accept this paradox; that you may never find out everything, short of waterboarding him —- but if he trusts you, he won’t want to hold back anything.

    What we did, I bring my dad and her best friend and 4 of us try to talk through how we are doing as a couple. The two ppl give us feedback. I feel my dad is in my corner and my wife’s best friend is also my friend but her story with her husband is similar to mine. I am honest with myself and everyone here and then I always ask if she wants to hear what I’m dealing with. Recently she wants to talk about her so that’s all we do. Lol.

    I find that opening up to guys is easier than my wife. I no longer expect her to understand innately all this addict talk. I used to expect her to heal me (she is s psychologist), but I separated (.in house no sex for 2 years now) in order to focus on getting healthy. I have improved in many areas but not all. I still have emotional attachments but I am recognizing they are crutches from a painful mother -son relationship.

    It’s just one day at a time like they say in SA. I have been to many counselors and nothing nothing nothing had been as helpful as the nofap community.
     
  4. Vendettana

    Vendettana Fapstronaut

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    I was making use of a lot of porn and was masturbating so strong that at some point, my arm muscles became tired and it hurt. It made me loose all feelings. However, maybe a year ago I started to watch Shemale porn (exclusively black shemales) and I felt some sensations again.
    I would like to tell you how I see it and where the difference is to me compared to having sex with a man. I would say that straight, or let's say "non-gay" man find the idea repulsive to touch a body full of hair or kiss a guy on the lips and feel a beard, or the smell. This is what makes the difference. If the surgery was a success, those shemales have a female body and a cock.
    At least to me it was very important to see feminized black shemales. At some point, I decided to meet one, but first of all, where I live, I think it is rare to find a (black) shemale. Then, the idea of paying for sex is a no-go to me. I went on some site and tried to arrange some date, but it never worked out. Soon after that I decided to master my compulsions and started NoFap (thanks to Jordan Peterson)
    I'd like to make a strong hypothesis here: Maybe, if you go really far, at some point, you decide to get surgery for yourself. I don't buy this "a female soul born in a male body", it's a disorder to me.

    Let me give you a possible explanation for a "straight" guy to fantasize about shemales: Maybe he wants some anal experience. He would like to be taken in the behind, or he would like to be dominated by a woman. Now, if the women he met were more passive and he never dared to talk about it, he just turned towards shemales.
    I am not trying to defend your partner. In any case, if he's having sex with someone else than you, I'd call that cheating, unless you agree on it. Than it is polygamy.
     
    Freedom_from_PMO likes this.
  5. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for your insight.
    I have tried to figure this out. I’ve reassured him that I’m not judging and just would love to know the draw to them. He has said repeatedly that he does not like anal penetration and it was “mostly oral”. I really can’t understand why a man would visit a shemale just for oral. Maybe he likes to give oral?? Maybe he likes to top?
    If so, I would think he would have asked to do anal with me. Unless he was too embarrassed or ashamed.

    It’s complete mystery what he really wanted sexually.
    And I’m pleading with him just to be honest.

    Or is it as simple as “ porn escalation”? Many men here are addicted to TS porn. But not very many actually “act out “ this fantasy.... repeatedly.

    But yes, he cheated, and it’s devastating.
    I’m just trying to sort it out
     
  6. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    @Luvspin68 I don't share your boyfriend's taste, but I do know just how difficult it is to work out where our fantasies come from in our psyche. I'm sceptical that reassuring him that you are not judging and would just love to 'know the draw' is going to work. Just reading your words makes me frightened, like there's someone trying to get at my scariest secrets, the ones even I cannot put language to, and she is relentlessly reasonable. So often in the past when my wife has asked me deep things my answer would be "I don't know". I wasn't lying, I honestly didn't know. It is only now that I have spent ages working on my recovery that I have realised "I don't know" is not enough for her or for me and that I have to speculate. It frightens me and makes me feel vulnerable, but I have to try. It may take him months / years to get to a point where he is able to start speculating where his shemale fascination comes from, then he can start to unpick the truth.
     
  7. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for the post. It makes sense what you are saying.
    Would your suggestion be to just stop trying to understand? I realize sexual fantasies are very very complex.
    But the actual acting out puts me at risk.
    The problem is we are in ( what I thought) a monogamous relationship.

    His betrayal is profound ( and with TS even more complex ) to me anyway.

    Any advice you have for me helping to understand him, and feel safe would be greatly appreciated.

    In this “I don’t know “ phase were you acting out?

    It’s difficult to just accept “ it will never happen again”

    I’m sure you understand my fear.

    Thank you again for your perspective.
     
  8. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    I completely understand your fear, and to be honest in your position my wife would have left. My porn use destroyed her self-esteem, then when she found out I'd been using camgirls that definitely counted for her as an infidelity, but if I'd used prostitutes or escorts she would have left me.

    To answer your question, my "I don't know" phase straddles the period when I was trying to quit but constantly relapsing, and my current sobriety. Because of my own failures, and the testimonies of the men and women I read here, I realised that if I was going to defeat my addiction I was going to need to do serious, prolonged, and honest introspection. And once I was into that process I found how important it was for me to stay with my vulnerability and not shy away like a frightened horse and quickly bury my fears.

    I don't know how to help you with the "I won't do it again". I almost lost hope during six years of relapses, but then I found this place and the site, keeping a journal, reading posts, getting support, all that has turned it round for me. I don't know how you (or he) can tell which stage of recovery he is in, sorry.
     
  9. Vendettana

    Vendettana Fapstronaut

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    So true. The first time you do something (asking yourself a question), you do it badly. But doing it is so much more than not doing it.
    Now, repeat and start digging. This is how humans learn. And you will get an answer.
    Do you know Jordan Peterson? He is a Canadian psychologist, has many videos on youtube and he helped my a lot. He claims that writing down things has a much stronger impact on your mind than just thinking them. Writing is as strong as speaking.
    He has a website that is called selfauthoring. I used it. Basically you answer a couple of question and then you write about your present life, your past and your future plans. It's a guide to write things down. Honestly, if you want some answers, I would recommend that to you
     
    need4realchg and kropo82 like this.
  10. Vendettana

    Vendettana Fapstronaut

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    I had to fantasies: Receiving anal and deepthroating a black shemale. In both cases I would have been dominated. You could argue with a strap-on, but I did not believe that this is an adequate replacement. So if your partner is just making oral, it can be a submissive thing. He seems to be interested in the passive, receiving part.
    I told myself to try it out, only once. Pretending that missing out a desire in life would be a shame. Doing it only once. But I have read other posts how this was just the beginning. Maybe this is how it was for your partner.
    I still fantasize about that, but I got married two months ago and I have promised myself that I will never ever betray my wife. I accept now, that I slammed that door and I will never experience that fantasy.
    I don't think you can understand. If he can't, or maybe he doesn't really want to understand, then you never will.
    If he does not want to change, then you cannot help him.

    You should not accept only "It will not happen again" Why shouldn't it? What is he going to do that it won't? There are actions to be taken.
    A man that helped me a lot is Jordan Peterson. He is a psychologist in Canada and has many videos on youtube. People say he is a right-wing, but this is BS to me. He is arguing for taking up responsibility, having a family and children.
    He as talking about what betrayal does to a partnership and how to deal with it. You might have a look.
     
    need4realchg likes this.
  11. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for reply. It’s amazing you resisted acting on your urge to act out because of your loyalty to your wife.
    If I may ask,
    Do you need these fantasies( of the shemale) in your head to be aroused by your wife?
    And do you still watch shemale porn?
     
    need4realchg likes this.
  12. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Powerful post. Writing for me has revealed to me my issues better than any counseling sessions could have. Love the clarity on this point. Also- you and I share the same focus. The “why” is the most critical piece to unlocking these cycles of malicious behavior.

    Good for you bro, love the encouragement.
     
  13. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    During the height of my addiction I experienced lots of urges and fantasies that were alien to may day to day sexual orientation and gender identity. I don't know how far I will go if I would decide to act some of them out. Shemales seems to be popular genere among straight men for some reasons, I don't think those are repressed gay urges. There is something very perverse about how they are portrayed in porn and it may be the appeal.
     
  14. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    Assuming you are in a successful reboot....... how often do you still have the urges that are alien to your orientation?
     
  15. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    Most of the time almost none. Even when I have them I know that they are fantasies and I don't really need them.
     
  16. Whitelaw

    Whitelaw New Fapstronaut

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    You are completely obssesed and It looks like you are ruminating again and again the same thoughts.

    All this addiction is caused by dopamine, It has nothing to do with sexual orientation. If you escalate more and more anything that would make you puke would start to turn you on.

    A porn addict brain is fucked, It just look for shock because shock raises dopamine.

    From your non-addict female perspective if you hear a man has had sex with a trans or another man your conclusion would be he is gay or he is bisexual but that is not true. I mean, this path of porn addiction can lead some people to behave sexually in a way they wont if they werent addicts.
     
  17. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    @Whitelaw.......I’ve learned so much from the kind people who have responded and shared. When new posts appear, I respond.

    Yes I’ll admit, I’m female and not a sex addict. But I’m Very dedication to supporting my partner on his journey. The information is all helpful. Sorry if it sounds redundant

    I completely understand the sex addicts need for dopamine...... and the requirements for more and more shock to feed the addiction.

    Question for you to ponder...... does EVERY porn addict progress to TS and gay porn?
    And would EVERY sex addict go and physically have contact with a penis?

    I doubt it. Not that it matters very much. I’m sure there are porn and sex addicts who would under no circumstances entertain anal sex/ blow jobs with penis. Because that just doesn’t interest them..... no matter how desperate they are for stronger high.

    But I could be wrong. But regardless, There has to be some degree of sexual fluidity (Kinsey scale)

    So yes, as a SO ...... it takes a bit of time to process that your BF has been having sex with trannys..... but is still prefers hetero female as their primary sex interest. After all, us SO just want to be the addicts primary sexual focus........ And after we discover the addiction, it’s hard to believe we are.
    But the site has taught me, the sex addiction has nothing to do with “sex”.

    Bottom line.....
    I guess addicts escalate if different ways..........
    Just like drug addicts may choose different routes for stronger highs.

    I hope you have someone to support you in your journey. (Not necessarily a SO).

    Thanks for your thoughts.
    I get it Loud and clear....... men who escalate to TS porn or TS escorts are NOT Gay or Bi.
     
  18. Whitelaw

    Whitelaw New Fapstronaut

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    I myself have not escalated to that porn types but i can perfectly understand how anyone could.

    All the porn addicts that started watching Transexual pornography tell me that they would feel nauseous about It at the begining but slowly desensitized to It.

    You can see by yourself how you could be turned on by a type of porn that doesnt match your sexual orientation, if you, a straight female, expose yourself continuously to lesbian porn, you will start to be turned on by It. It is pure conditioning.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  19. Vendettana

    Vendettana Fapstronaut

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    You know, although I loved my fiancee (at that time we were not married yet, I was struggling with ED. It was irregular, and before we had sex, it all started well, I was excited. But regularly my penis would get soft during intercourse and then it would be really difficult to get hard again. I had Cialys pills for that purpose, but I did not take them daily, they were just in case and I have to wait like an hour so they actually do the job. So, when I was having intercourse with my wife and I got ED, it was no solution. Also, I did not want to take cialys, because of my pride and also because there are clearly some side-effects.

    I did not want to deceive her. So, sometimes I intentionally recalled my preferred porn videos in my mind. And sometimes, I thought of my black shemale porn clips. It sometimes helped and I would get an erection, strong enough to continue. I blamed myself for doing so, but on the other side, I just wanted her to be satisfied.
    Often when I got ED, I was giving her long oral pleasure, so that she would at least have some joy.

    No, I have stopped masturbating for a almost three months, and I stopped watching porn maybe four days ago, thanks to NoFap. I feel healthier and I desire my wife more than ever. We are not together right now because of my job and some paperwork. But I hope, that the fact that I have stopped porn and masturbation, will make ED go away.

    So, long story short. Yes, sometimes, I did need shemale fantasies in my head to be aroused with my wife.
     
  20. Luvspin68

    Luvspin68 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your response
    I wish you continued success on your journey.
     

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