The connection between masturbation and submission (JOI/Cuckold/femdom/sissy etc)

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I've covered the masturbation-cuckold connection in a former post https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-cuckold-compromise.235466/

    and I intend to make this one a general one on submission and masturbation.

    I've been on nofap forums for long enough to notice a specific problem - PMO addicts describing unwanted submissive behavior (JOI/femdom/sissy/cuckold etc behavior) and also PMO addicts feeling happy to report that when they abstained from PMO they were much more confident, their voice got deeper, people respected them and so on.

    So we're looking at the dominance-submission axis and we see that PMO behavior often kickstarts or exacerbates submissive behavior and that stopping it reduces or terminates the behavior. From an experimental point of view, this really is the ideal situation to test the influence of a factor. You introduce it, notice a change and if you remove it, you wait and find out if the change reverts. As for dominance-submission this would be synonymous with "control" and who has it and who doesn't.

    Now, what do all joi/cuckold/femdom/sissy/gooning/hypnosys etc have in common? They are making one submissive and taking control away from the person. The more he gives in, the less control he has, the more submissive he is, the less power he has so he ends up doing it again, starting a downward spiral that is very difficult to stop.

    How is masturbation factored into this? Well, masturbation is, first of all, the confirmation that you're giving away control. You would say.. "well no, that's impossible, it's still you that is masturbating". You would think so but actually masturbating is inherently a two person act as sex is a two person act. The only reason masturbation has any effect is because your body and mind thinks it's having sex. The penis exists for sex, not for masturbation. If it wasn't for sex, the penis (and vagina) would not exist.

    So then we have the hand, that is the woman and the penis, that is you, the male.

    Why does then masturbation lead to loss of control and submission? Because during masturbation, you, as the male, are always the passive one. You sit there and get f-ked. The "woman" (or the exterior) controls EVERYTHING. The rhythm, the pressure, the pauses. EVERYTHING. You condition yourself that you, as the male have no control over sex and everything is controlled EXTERNALLY.

    It might sound weird but when you masturbate not even the act of ejaculation is your own, it is something that is induced TO you by your hand (the woman). While it may seem that you have all the power and even more power in masturbation than in sex, it is actually the complete opposite. You have absolutely 0 power.

    Again, you may say you have control because it's your hand but really, it's the woman that is in control, your penis is completely submissive and receptive to what the hand (woman) wants it to do.

    If you had sex, you will know that this is very unusual and unnatural, especially if done exclusively like that. Sure, sometimes the woman takes control but sex is the thing where the man is active (giving) and the woman is passive (receiving). Masturbation turns this dynamic completely upside down. You could say that there is no masculinity involved in masturbation, it's only femininity.

    I hope this should explain why masturbating and submission are so connected and why so many struggle with joi/cuckold/femdom/sissy/gooning/hypnosys and many more problematic sexual behaviors.
     
  2. 6RIPperTHE9

    6RIPperTHE9 Fapstronaut

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    Great Posting! I often did think about the same, since on this page is really a lot of sissy stuff going on; but where is into this scheme a place for guys being addicted to watch porn that is degrading to women? The whole rough/manhandle/non-consent stuff?
     
  3. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    It's part of the cuckoldry/submission stuff, the other man is stronger, more aggressive and does what he wants while the watcher/cuckold is intimidated and powerless. He submits both to the woman's wishes and the other man's wishes.
     
    LavaMe and 6RIPperTHE9 like this.
  4. Jerky

    Jerky Fapstronaut

    True. After reading this i realize i never had control. Giving in is submissive.
    In my fantasies i was always the one receiving. But it was my 'choice' to have the fantasy. In reality i submitted to the urge to fantasize, which led me to act out.

    The moment i say that giving in was my choice is the moment i submit.

    This was enlightening. Thank you.
     
  5. Damnation

    Damnation Fapstronaut

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    I can say, I've had a really weird fetish. Maybe it's not that rare? For years my fetish is humiliation by female, also having mild physical pain and severe emotional pain inflicted on me. Denial and rejection of my needs and forced to give oral without receiving any pleasure in return. Basically being used and discarded. It got to the point of it causing physical heartache, and then addiction to the pain. Found myself seeking extra marital relationships that would ensure I would be used by women I deemed very attractive, for oral sex.

    Fast forward to reboot, my grip and control of that addictive pain seems to be fading. And I find myself losing my desire to be used and discarded, my fantasies are no longer sad and pain inducing, but are becoming male dominated and more of a pleasing act for both parties.

    I find myself with the alpha attitude much more, which matches my physical dimensions more accurately
     
  6. Inkazak

    Inkazak Fapstronaut

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    Interesting! Thanks!
     
    ultrafabber likes this.
  7. 6RIPperTHE9

    6RIPperTHE9 Fapstronaut

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    So, if i understand you right, the consumer is ALLWAYS in a submissive situation. Even if he lusts for Porn that actively degrades women - what one could mistake as a "dominant attitude" - he is in the very moment a "cuck" since he is 1. enslaved by the picture and 2. let another man "do the job". Thats it?
     
  8. lkhanh1234

    lkhanh1234 Fapstronaut

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    pretty much, taking it up the @SS is just the next progression to this
     
  9. ThisNeeds2Stop

    ThisNeeds2Stop Fapstronaut

    I have to admit over time I found myself wishing my wife was more dominant in bed. Almost wanting her to give me verbal permission to cum. Too many JOI had conditioned this I guess. You are literally hanging on every word coming out of the mouth of the star of the video, eventually unable to get there without the inevitable countdown, and DE has become a problem recently...

    I just assumed the submissive thing was part of me. This post has me questioning my reality somewhat. I will have to see how this progresses through my reboot.
     
  10. Damnation

    Damnation Fapstronaut

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  11. ThisNeeds2Stop

    ThisNeeds2Stop Fapstronaut

    Best response on this forum is "don't look it up" but it's in the title of the thread we are both commenting on. If you are not aware then that's probably good and one less thing to worry about.
     
    LavaMe and realmineralsalt like this.
  12. Damnation

    Damnation Fapstronaut

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    I think i figured it out by re reading your post.
     
  13. userSCP

    userSCP Fapstronaut

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    When I used to watch cuck porn, I would imagine myself as the bull. The fantasy, I guess, was spreading my seed into forbidden women. I don't know what that means, because the whole subject is fucked up.
     
    Jerky likes this.
  14. browneyedguy

    browneyedguy Fapstronaut

    Very interesting perspective. I have never really got into a "submissive" mindset, but this makes a lot of sense and just makes the whole notion of masturbation to made up fantasies in one's mind just that much more disgusting. I have to second the above poster saying the whole subject is fucked up. Thanks for sharing.
     
  15. Mr.Chips

    Mr.Chips Fapstronaut

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    You are right. I read once on some article that excessive masturbation makes the person more submissive to women. We become beta males.
     
    GregHill likes this.
  16. chapuleta

    chapuleta Fapstronaut

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    Man, i stopped the addicted over these kind of porns when i started to met girls in real life, i realize that i was feeling alone and depressive and that make me watch that kind of porn, but i really have a submissive personalitty so i like sometimes let the girl dominate me.
     
  17. realmineralsalt

    realmineralsalt Fapstronaut

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    Whoa! This would explain a LOT! The guy conditions himself to everything happening to him, not him making it happen! This gets reflected not only on his sex life, but on the rest of his freaking life! He gives up control and loses motivation, willpower and impact.

    I felt this when I was addicted and lost, but I didn't correlate the two! I get it now!
     
    Damnation and ultrafabber like this.
  18. Gratefulforchange

    Gratefulforchange Fapstronaut

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    Hey all, my two cents. First, great insight Ultrafabber! The "all PMO is cuckoldry" is gaining ground in my awareness. It is sound reasoning.
    These themes for PMO, Joi, sissy, femdom etc. are all humiliating. I have been using them more and more exclusively over the years. But I can tell that this is conditioning that results in feeding myself regular negative messages. It almost seems like a trauma bond. I keep going back to my abuser, getting negative messages while I receive pleasure. We start because it's a kick to feel that secret shame/abuse. I notice when I'm already feelig bad about my life, I gravitate towards that type of porn.
    However, when I feel good about my life I look at porn where the male is in a normal or dominant role.
    Over the years, the shame based porn has become almost exclusive in my life because of conditioning. I have conditioned my self to respond to that. I have been fantasizing, and have gone so far as to have sex with men so I could re afirm my lowly view of myself.
    BUT, that's not who I am! I am not dominate or submissive. I'm just me. But I have conditioned myself to feel bad about life. I believe those videos contain a lot of messages that I don't even hear. But my subconscious hears it and absorbs it.
    I have 8 days free from PMO this morning. I haven't tried to stop in a few years. But with forums on nofap, and regular affirmation of positive messages, I am already feeling a little better.
    I am not cured. I just have today to stay PMO free. But feeling better about myself is a nice feeling.
    Let's keep the positive self talk going. It will take to retrain my brain but retrain I must do. Keep the faith everyone
     
  19. Di.Do.555

    Di.Do.555 Fapstronaut

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    Great read.
    I see the difference too.
    When i am on no pmo i imagine myself f*ing the woman.
    When i am on pmo i imagine myself going down on a woman.
    The difference is striking.
    One is dominant and the other is partially submissive.
     
    Gratefulforchange likes this.
  20. Jerky

    Jerky Fapstronaut

    When i relapsed, sissy porn was the first thing i went for. It was my first, and God willing, my last time watching hypno.
    I just HAD to see what it was all about.
    No thanks. I did view tranny porn though.

    Im back with a renewed willingness to participate in my recovery.

    Today is day 2.
    One day at a time.
     

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