Why I'm not an athiest anymore.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Invictvs

    Invictvs Fapstronaut

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    We live in a society that's lost its faith in...well...faith. I grew up in a Catholic school and I was a pretty fervent believer in all things Jesus until I reached puberty. Atheism spread through my worldview all the way through my mid-twenties. I'm not going to claim that I'm now "saved" or even that Jesus was really God's son, or anything of the sort. I simply wanted to share some of the insights I've had as I've grown a little bit older, and perhaps only a little bit wiser.

    I came to the conclusion about a higher power through two things: a thought exercise, and some of what is suggested by quantum mechanics. I know, I sound like I've smoked a pound of weed, and am trying to be like those super-douche intellectuals that never makes much sense. The former is definitely not true, and the later perhaps halfway.

    The thought exercise is this: ask yourself if any of the following things is WRONG: murder, rape, or slavery. Your answer, I hope, is yes. But, there are philosophical debates over whether or not morality is simply a construct of a society. If that's true then it means that when an ancient army sacked a city, and they viewed the murder and rape of its inhabitants as justified, they weren't wrong. After all, in their society, those things weren't 'evil'. I choose to believe that they were though, no matter how they might have viewed it. So the real question is, do you believe that there are human actions that are, and always will be evil? That leads the next question: If you believe that, then WHAT says they are truly evil? Whatever it is cannot exist within humanity, or else morality IS simply a societal construct. Some might argue evolution made those things "bad" for our species, but evolution hasn't dictated that to any other species on our planet. We don't view a wolf killing another member of its pack for dominance as an evil. Nor do we really view animal mating habits, which can be downright rapey, as evil either. I'd say that means we're not really animals but something more.

    The other thing that made me a believer is what scientists say about quantum particles. Now, as a disclaimer my understanding is that of a layperson. I'm no scientist, but I do read about some of the things they say they've discovered. Look up the double-slit experiment and what it suggests. There are particles that exist in multiple places at the same time, until they are observed. There are even experiments that show that particles (photons etc.) will retroactively change their behavior after they've been observed. Things get downright weird in quantum physics, and some of it suggests that consciousness plays an important role in the universe. That means there just might be more to life than it being an accident or a randombyproduct of matter. Don't even get me started on just how many things had to go right for life to exist on this planet!

    My point is that there are a lot of reasons to view your life as having a special purpose and meaning in our universe. What exactly that is I can't say. I simply wanted to share some of the things that have led me back towards believing in something bigger than humanity, and a created universe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  2. CH3RRY

    CH3RRY Fapstronaut

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    Very interesting, thank you for sharing. This whole thing makes me think. I don't know what the answer is to how people were in the previous ages. A question that comes into my mind is what if morality was just in a growing phase back then like everything? Like you said, the things animals do aren't evil in our eyes. We were like that once as well. We didn't have morals. They only started developing over time, just like our intelligence. Maybe morality is actually a result of our intelligence. But where it comes from is something that can't be answered, what is it that makes things good and bad? Why would I die for someone else? That definitely isn't beneficial for my own survival, but there is still something that would drive me to do that. But also someone else doesn't have this drive to die for a fellow human. And I also wouldn't die for just anybody.

    I do believe that there can be something, some kind of a force that humans can't understand. But I don't believe in any religions that were created by humans. I won't blindly follow something that was made up by another human being. And about having a special purpose, whatever that is, my life is not meant to be lived to please someone or something else. I will not be controlled by fear that makes many people turn religious. I don't believe many believers are genuine, they are in it cause of fear.
     
  3. 1978

    1978 Fapstronaut

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    If there is a God, he's really messed things up. He's created a species that's capable of mass murder. What kind of lunatic would do that? What kind of sick experiment or game is he playing? He's either evil or incompetent. If he's all-powerful and all good, he would make everything good. Since everything is not good, that either means God's not all good or he's not all-powerful.

    And here's a thought experiment for you: your partner or best friend is having a heart attack. What do you do? Do you pray or call for an ambulance?

    I went to a religious primary school, and I've had religious friends over the years, but nothing has every convinced me to have faith. To me that would be like still believing in Father Christmas.
     
  4. Ra's Al Ghul

    Ra's Al Ghul Fapstronaut

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    Hanging up your fedora huh?
     
  5. Narva

    Narva Fapstronaut

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    If we think that Gods plan is to make a man some kind of being that is all good and world that is all good. This world that we are living is like a phase before that. That we all have to make through somehow. Problem is. Is it worth it?
    Also lets say that Gods dream was to make a world that was perfect, in the beginning. Like a loving place, were was no evil. I know it is just legends to many, but maybe there was already a place like that. And then something happened. Maybe the first humans rebel in some way. Maybe they wanted more power or freedom, maybe they wanted to be like God, or be free from God. And the result was this place. This planet we call planet Earth.
    There must be more in the story, but it is already lost in humans history, because we like lie so much. The evil in these world could be result of humans arrogance, this thinking that we can be free from God, and then be good anyway.
    But maybe the truth is that there is only two state of being, we are either in contact in this good God, Creator, or we are in contact in Evil. There is no three options.
     
  6. Invictvs

    Invictvs Fapstronaut

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    To that I'd say the Christian response would be free-will. If he controlled our every passion and impulse, it wouldn't exist. Evil arises from our freedom of choice. I'm not claiming to know everything, or even being pushy about Christianity. I still question christian theologies constantly (there are many) , it certainly hasn't convinced me thoroughly. I'm just saying that there are some logical paths one can take towards believing that there is more to existence than meets the eye.
     
  7. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    bifurcation fallacy. As invictivs said, the answer is free will.
     
  8. 1978

    1978 Fapstronaut

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    There is no free will.
     
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