Will I Ever Have Normal Sex With My Addict Partner?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by GG2002, May 31, 2017.

  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    My partner is in reboot and has been for almost 90 days. He suffers from DE and could not O with me at all before the reboot. He also lied to me for a large part of our relationship after vowing to quit. But he has quit now and the difference is very visible. He can O from my hand and from just oral sex and quite quickly. The problem is that he still feels little to nothing during intercourse and I am not sure he ever will. As a result our sex life consists of a few minutes of penetration for me and the rest is totally focused on him and me making sure that he Os. Or sometimes it's just a hand or oral with no sex at all. He always asks if I want him to do anything but by that time he's spent and it's not enjoyable. I feel like we have gone from him using his hand to me doing it with mine but he still lacks the ability to have what I consider a shared sexual experience with me. I mean to me the reason God created intercourse as the way to baby make is because it was supposed to be mutual enjoyment. My partner has a concentration problem when he was trying to O so we made sure that he focused on himself and his O which is something he had a hard time doing when he focused so much on my needs but now the pendulum has swung the other way. I was I think initially so happy to see the changes overall that I was willing to accept them as they are or maybe I hoped that things would progress more quickly. But now I realize I want normal sex. I am getting bored with this real fast and I am starting to dread having it. I am a very sexual person with a high drive who is now starting to see sex as a chore that I want to be over because for me it's just a lot of work. I have shared this with him and he says he understands but nothing changes. It has been almost two years since I had normal sex meaning mutually satisfying intercourse with my ex and I now realize I really miss it. Not sex with another partner but sex that is in my mind normal. I know many will say that "sex" does not have to be one set way and I've tried to tell myself this but it does not help. I am just not sexually fulfilled at all. I honestly cannot see myself married to this man with this sex life. I long to have sex that is not such hard work! So men who have had this issue I am asking for your advice. How long did it take you to O from sex? Is it possible that I need to accept this status quo as my sexual fate? If so I fear I need to move on. Do you think we should make a rule that he can only O from intercourse to see if that helps? Any ladies out there with partners with this issue that can offer advice? Thanks.
     
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  2. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    Is he on any anti-depressants? They are known for having sexual side effects. When I first started seeing a therapist he put me on Celexa but I experienced pretty severe DE. I would get aroused but could not finish. After I switched to something else my sensitivity returned.
     
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  3. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    No he's not on any medications. I agree though I've had some friends who had issues with DE caused by antidepressants. His issues are not physiological unfortunately he's been checked out. Otherwise it may me a bit easier to fix. Thank you!
     
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  4. In my case, my partner was able to O from sex before oral. I think I was subconsciously avoiding hands and even oral because PIV really can't mimic either. I've read a fair number of threads that discourage using hands from either partner because it may perpetuate the previous associations. Also, I really wanted to focus on the PIV which did eventually work. Yay!

    The bad news is that I, like you, was so focused on the recovery and trying to get him to O (WITH ME!) that it created a new status quo where it's pretty much all about him. Before, when he couldn't finish he would make sure I was satisfied most of the time. Now, not so much. It still does happen but definitely not a lot of the time. Or even half the time. I'd guess 20-30% of our sessions? I am able to finish from PIV in certain positions but ongoing ED issues make that impossible much of the time. So yeah it's still almost all about HIM. I'm trying to figure out how to better assert my needs too.

    The other issue you mentioned is feeling connected. I am hoping some men chime in here with hope that it can happen later in recovery. Because I still lack that in many of our sessions. I've glimpsed it here and there but not with much regularity. Selfish behavior both in the bedroom and out tend to kill that shared intimacy feeling. At a certain point, it's not about the PA or MA or SA but just the person and who they are or who they became after so much time with all that poison.

    I've read hopeful stories with happy outcomes where spouses or partners continued to wake up, it just took awhile longer to get to that point. I'd love to know how to get to that place or figure out at what point in time the changes pretty much stop. Then you can really evaluate if this person is the one you want to be with.

    We aren't spouses. We don't have kids. Walking away is still a much easier option for us. I was describing it to my therapist as a chart or graph. In normal relationships each person starts at zero and tries to make the other person's life better. It's a dance that ebbs and flows. In relationships with addicts the partner starts off at zero as usual then may escalate rapidly to compensate for their partners issues, taking much of the burden upon themselves. Meanwhile the addict is starting below zero and their efforts are focused on just getting back above the line to 'normal'. So the SO is actively trying to do things that make their partner HAPPY while the addict is just trying to NOT do things that make their partner UNhappy. It makes for a hugely uneven situation ripe for breeding resentment, from both partners.

    I'm sending hugs your way. I hope this was remotely helpful and you can find some clarity and figure out what makes you both happy in the long run, separately or together. We're all here for you. :)
     
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  5. Not a lady, but I have a couple of thoughts which may be useful:

    1. Perhaps cut out the hand and oral for a little while. If you want the O to be from intercourse, then make it the only potential outlet for a while - say, a month. His brain has been trained to O from a certain thing, and rebooting effectively has him reprogramming. Perhaps he's reprogrammed in a relatively specific way, and PMO is replaced by a specific thing (which happens to more closely resemble MO).

    2. During this time, have him try as hard as possible to be ok if he doesn't O each time. Creating mental pressure causes the body to freeze up - any guy who's been unable to pee at a crowded urinal will know what I mean. And the brain/body badly wants to O. If there's only one way it can do It, and if a little pressure can be taken off, it'll figure it out sooner or later.

    Our brains are complex, amazing things, but we are capable of really messing them up in rather simple ways. You mentioned he's already made considerable progress. That sounds like reason to continue to be hopeful.
     
  6. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Hi!
    My SO had PIED. during his hardmode period after relapse we read on someones page that it's been effective to not use the girls hands or mouth til after 90 days even if the hardmode doesn't last that long to help reset the brain.
    This has worked for us Tremendously!! (so far)
    He had some PE getting back (we are just after 30 days and his hardmode is over) I'm still not using hands or mouth anywhere... There... It's also helpful for all his other triggers and P-Subs progress.
    He is overall really happy with the way this is turning out. Even last night he said that it was great to just "be with me" because usually he needs more "visualness" and he noticed after we were done messing around that it was the first time in years he didn't.
    He was just present.
    Maybe try that?

    Whatever you do, good luck girl...i wish you the best!
     
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  7. Bearish

    Bearish Fapstronaut

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    Maybe the issue is that it's all focused on the physical and not on the emotional. What difference does it make if sex only works in certain ways? Don't you love him? Isn't that what the intimacy is supposed to be about? My husband and I almost never have any orgasm at all, and yet we feel deeply connected. He says that because he can manage to come to orgasm anytime he wants, he doesn't ever need it to happen at any particular point or in any particular fashion. The fact that I have a lifelong challenge with it takes nothing away from the quality of our intimacy.

    Honesty and fidelity issues aside, I would feel terrified of sex with you, based on how you talk about it in all these threads. I think you have really brutal expectations, and you distract from it by blaming his porn use.

    I don't think you love him. You just want him as a sex tool. I apologize for brutality of my own, but I don't think you'll hear it in any other way.
     
  8. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks so much for your comment you describe exactly what is going on with us and after reading your response I have some good talking points I can bring up with him that I had not thought of before. I think moving from not Oing with me at all to where he is now is a huge step but it's time to move forward and I know he will agree just not to O for a long time. He was okay with that before. Like you said we are not spouses and for those that criticize our wants and needs or lack of understanding most non married childless people would walk away in two seconds from this. We are sticking around and supporting our partners. We have joined NoFap to try to give more support and seek out solutions which to me shows how much we do care. But if what we as partners desire is O from PIV sex and we know that that will never happen or be very hard to do then we have to decide if we are okay with that or not. It's not fair to either person to enter into a marriage knowing you will never be sexually satisfied with the relationship.Thats just a recipie for disaster.
     
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I do love him. If I did not I would have left when he was unable to perform in bed or when he lied to me. I would not have joined NoFap to try and help to try to understand. I would have just walked away. Sex aside he is otherwise a great person. What I think you may be missing is that many people with a PMO addiction lack the ability to have emotional intimacy while abusing and that is something they continue to struggle with. Sex for them is purely an act of physical release. That's not to say a pmo addict always has these issues or people that are emotionally unavailable are always pmo addicts but in my case my partner has both. No eye contact, little to no touching. It's not just about PIV sex it's lack of any intimate connection. And while many people are okay with their partners not oing during PIV or at all I am not. That's just not what I want. You can say that's mean or lack of love but I am just being honest and I think a lot of women would feel the same. He does not even enjoy POV sex it's not about O he feels nothing. I want to be with someone who enjoys it! And sex is an important part of a relationship. I mean would you encourage a man to marry a woman he does not enjoy having sexual with? Of course not! Whether the lack of enjoyment has to do with something in her control or not. If he does not enjoy it then how will it be in 10 years? Does it mean he does not love her? No. It means he wants to be in a marriage where he is fully fulfilled and so do I. I am not sure what you mean by what I say about sex scaring him but if that's indeed true he's not the one for me. I think you fail to see that putting the effort in shows my love for him. All his past partners including his ex wife up and left him. But I also have to be honest with myself. I don't think being in love means you consent to being miserable?
     
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  10. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    And if I wanted a sex tool I would go out and find one that did not have ED DE or a porn addiction. This makes zero sense. If I'm using someone for sex I would want it to be great sex with no stress!
     
  11. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks so much! Yes we are working on him being present. That still seems to be a big issue. Physically it works better but the connection still lacks.
     
  12. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks so much it's good to hear a mans perspective. I guess I sort of needed some encouragement and all these comments have provided it. He will be fine with no O he went for quite sometime without one when he was trying to O from my hand and mouth but he stuck it out. We said if he does not O we will try again another day. It is interesting about the urinal thing. He has that issue. When I met him he was unable to use a urinal in a public place. He had to use the stall. I was the first person he ever told that and I said don't you think it's a bit odd? He could not figure out why he felt that way not could he recall when it began. He has progressed now to being able to urinate at a urinal so long as there is no one else there. At first we thought this was related to the DE as some studies suggest. It may still play a part but the stopping pmo dramatically changed things. I think we will get there it just takes time.
     
  13. Yeah I (sometimes) get 'stagefright' at urinals too. I wonder if it's common among men with DE.
     
  14. I completely understand where you are coming from with regard to how you feel the intimate sexual experience should be with your SO! Nothing turns me on more than knowing that my SO is turned on by ME and that he's feeling as good as I am with no pressure. Just enjoying each other. It should be harmonious. If you are constantly in your head thinking about is he turned on or is just working hard to satisfy you it can take away from the whole experience for both of you and it does start feeling like a chore and makes it Unenjoyable for everyone. I think women desire to be wanted by their SO and to know that they can satisfy him with no extra out of the ordinary frills. I have also fallen into the trap of doing certain things to "help" the process along for him bc I don't want him to be left hanging wo O, but it starts to get to me bc I too just want NORMAL intimacy and sex with the person that I love. And sex and intimacy is supposed to be an expression of that love and passion. Sometimes I feel selfish for thinking this way but it's not it normal it's how it's supposed to be and I think we crave that.
    I also have had some discussion w my SO I kind of think they don't fully comprehend bc I don't think they have ever experienced true intimacy and therefore don't really understand. I asked my SO if he thought we "made love" or "had sex" and he really didn't think there was a difference.
    Hang in there! Maybe try a hard mode reboot for him (even if it will be tough for you) with no PMO or S for a short period of time to start retraining his brain for PIV. And def what everyone else said about no oral or hands! Good luck!
     
  15. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    There are a few studies out there that say it is. I've researched a bit.
     
  16. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks so much. This is very helpful and encouraging. I think we feel selfish but should not. We have a right to have normal intimacy and despite what some addicts say most sexually healthy people want to have PIV where both parties O. I have learned on this site that often times you can see when addicts comment how far along they are in recovery. Those that say we are making unrealistic demands, being selfish and that it's our fault are usually still in the denial phase of the addiction. My partner does not now think I'm being selfish or unrealistic at all. He knows most women want what I am asking for and is working to achieve it. You are so right that they don't know what intimacy is and why PIV is so important because they never had it before. I asked him if he ever felt intimate sex and he described chemistry. He said well no I've never had that feeling of where I wanted to rip a girls clothes off. I said no that's chemistry tell me what you think intimacy is? He did not have an answer. So I explained it to him and he said no never I never knew people had that.
     
  17. It's sad that PMO robs people of intimacy. I know my SO tries to please me because he wants to make me happy but I don't think he understands that we need to be normal in this area to make me truly happy. Right now I feel like it's almost robotic...he knows we have to be active at least 2x or I will not be happy so it's almost like he schedules it in (I keep track on my period tracker so I know exactly when & how often) and it's usually on the same days every week and the same amount of times. Then when I tried to explain that when we have sex it isn't really making love and one example I gave was we rarely ever even kiss he make it a point now to kiss me so It can be making love. His effort is there but it's not genuine it's like it's forced..if that makes sense. I tell him I just want him to respond to me sexually the way a man is supposed to respond to a woman naturally...basically primal.
     
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  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yep I just want that exactly him to respond naturally to me as a man does to a woman. And when you have had that with other men you know what you are missing. They have no idea. And mine is the same he wants to please me but it's robotic . I liken it to when you tell someone you want them to talk dirty and they do for you but don't like it. It's forced and awkward. It's like why do I have to tell a 47 year old man who's had his share of sex partners how to make love? Then I feel guilty for thinking about the normal sex I had before him and missing it. I think people need to realize that if the sexual relationship is not working it almost always kills the rest of the relationship. Some guys on here have said that it will be forced for awhile but eventually will not be. I'm not sure about that.
     
  19. I hope not. I seriously would rather abstain for a while so he can properly reboot and be sensitive to me. He convinced he at one point to try a chastity device so that he was forced to save it for me. And I thought oh this could be fun and at times it was. He really was sensitive to me "kinda" naturally. But I eventually realized I'm just playing into fantasy that isn't natural and I want him to be that sensitive to me wo being forced.
     
  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    A lot of them also have avoidant personality disorder which often is what got them into the porn addiction to begin with. My partner def does. So they genuinely can't understand how others feel because they don't have those feelings. At some point in life they were taught feelings were bad so they pushed them down so far they went away. So while you or I may stop and say wait if I tell a lie to someone that it will really hurt them. I understand how it feels to be hurt and I don't want to make someone else feel like that. An avoidant comes to understand that other people get hurt when he lies and that society looks down on it, they don't understand why people get hurt because they don't. So while these things are intuitive for healthy individuals for avoidants it like learning to memorize a script for your entire life. Has yours ever said I don't understand why you are upset I would not be upset wnf you felt like he must be from anothe planet? Unfortunately the best most avoidants can do is learn that script. It's not a disorder that responds well to therapy and meds don't work. My counselor told me that if I was the type of person that needed more intimacy I needed to accept that he likely would never be able to give me that. It's not that he could not improve but it would never be that of a healthy person. And unlike a narcissist who fully understands societies rules and although they feel no empathy purposely puts on masks to fake the roles and intimacy the avoidant does not do it on purpose he really does not get it. My partner has like two friends lives a 23 hour flight from any family and is always alone. That was a red flag to me.
     
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