To kneel or stand? What's your opinon with the national anthem protests in America?

The emotions and actions of some of the population is not representative of America as a whole.

This^ is just one example of the news that was reported here. This demonstrates that there is institutional racism in the US criminal justice system.

 

Muh institutional racism. The cops are a bunch of thugs anyway. Let the people have their guns and associate however they want. No more racism when whites and blacks live and work in their own communities.

 

To be fair whites aren't the only one's that are racist. I know many white people that have been effected by black racism and nobody bats an eye to it including white people which I find weird.

 

That's definitely true, and it's incredibly aggravating for that stuff to not be considered racism just because "white people have never been systematically oppressed." Which is bologna anyway, because plenty of Jews are white.

But, don't fall into the trap of using this as an excuse to ignore the racism on the other side. It's a pretty childish argument to say "well yeah black people are killed by cops and racism against them still exists, but they hate white people too!" It's just not relevant. Both are important to fight, but let's not use one as an excuse to ignore the other.

 

I didn't but like you said usually stuff like that get's swept under the rug which is very frustrating to say the least.
for instance if I went to my school and started speaking down to black people I would be harassed by the administration the media and every group you can think of but when it happens against whites it seems to be fair game.

Not all people are like this but it does happen we can't just stick up for one group and ignore the others that's why I have a lot of trouble getting behind this Black Lives Matter movement because it separates regular class people even more.

I am telling you no matter what color you are the only color that matters is green and if you don't have a lot of green or at least well known you are going to be oppressed no matter what.

There are a lot of white people that want to be treated better as well but starting this movement that excludes everyone but black people is an ultimate form of racism in my eyes and to make it worse this same group attacks us when we try to make a group of our own so until this situation gets resolved I have no interest to take part in it which is to bad.

Could you imagine how much power this movement would have if more white people where involved in it? It would be unstoppable.

 

What people have to understand is these groups only help the elite keep control. Its a classic divide and conquer scenario and when we fight each other like we have in the past couple of years it will not help any of us. Yes white police officers treat blacks very bad but should all white people pay for what such few actually did?

 

No... obviously not. And I didn't say anything to indicate that I believe that. I'm not a BLM supporter either.

 

I couldn't care less if they kneel or stand, I don't consider myself a patriot. I just happen to live in the United States, I don't have a special loyalty to it but I also don't have loyalty to any nation. I also pledge allegiance to no one. I have never understood this "America! Fuck yea!" mentality, in fact nationalism/patriotism has always confused me. It just seems like an outdated concept to me. I'm loyal to certain values I have, not a flag.

 

There is injustice everywhere, including in the U.S., but the theory that there is this massive racism at work, and that it's so insidious that cops will just mow down people because they are black is just nonsense.

It should be obvious that it's nonsense.

Suppose you are a police officer. (I am not.) You are on duty, making your rounds, or else answering calls, etc.

First: I'm pretty sure you do not want to fire your gun, or even come close to firing your gun, if you can avoid it. Why?

Because I'm willing to bet real money that in any jurisdiction in the U.S., firing your weapon creates big headaches. Why? Because lawyers, that's why. Because if you are the boss, you know that a trigger happy cop is big trouble, if not today, then someday.

Yes, they know that it will happen, and they have procedures. Nevertheless, I'm guessing cops rue the day they have to report back that they fired their weapon. Heck, I'll bet that if they admit brandishing it (without firing it), they have paperwork and reports and questions to answer. That could be covered up, but I would imagine the police department keeps track of ammunition; so firing the weapon wouldn't be something you'd want to hide. Because hiding it means even worse trouble.

Second: imagine you are in that situation where you are drawing your weapon. Whatever the situation is. If you are a police officer in 2017 America, I will bet big money that as you are approaching that suspect, one of the things you are thinking is:

"Oh God, please this perp not be black."

Can you guess why? It should be obvious.

 

I couldn't agree more. I really don't understand it at all. Especially when people are prideful about it and have an "I'm better than you because I'm American" mindset. Like dude, all that happened to accomplish that was that you happened to be born in this country. You did nothing to achieve "being American," so there's no reason to be prideful about it.

 

See, that might be the crux of this entire issue. Two sides disagreeing because they don't understand each other's view. Two sides are not seeing eye-to-eye on this because there's one camp that says "I don't understand one's fascination with its own country" and there's another camp that was brought up and taught to have pride in their country, maybe even an indoctrination if you will. I know I was, so I'm trying to give some insight here. Many of those people are blind America followers through-and-through to be sure. But many others believe that American pride is spawned from pride in the values and freedoms that put this country on top for so long. You can disagree with that, and that's the thing. You're always going to have equal and opposite opinions on this. So just as you don't understand people's fascination with America, you can realize that it's equally as hard for them to understand why you don't.

 

I totally agree with all of what you said, but we aren't talking about someone simply "not understanding" someone else's views. If the patriotic people looked at those kneeling and felt s but annoyed and said "man, I just don't get that," and moved on with their lives, none of this would even be a topic of conversation. It becomes a bigger problem when people try to silence those they disagree with and don't understand. I mean I don't understand hardcore patriotism, really, but I don't care if someone takes pride in their country. It's not like it effects me at all for some stranger to have a completely different view than I do. Live and let live.

 

No, it actually demonstrates how misinformation can be spread to make the narrative favor one side. I assume you're referencing the Michael Brown case since that was the narrative for a stretch of time until people started to get the actual answers. If you do some quick research (you can even find it in reports from the New York Times and Washington Post, two of the most anti-law enforcement opinionated newspapers in America), you'll find that the autopsy reported no shots in the back, and the shots fired seemed to be during the point of struggle between the the officer and Brown. There were a total of six shots fired, which indicated among other things that the officer was entirely out of protocol. So yes, someone's life ended when it definitely shouldn't have because of a police officer's incompetence. But let's stick to the facts if we want to have an honest discussion on this issue.

I can't believe after several years, that narrative is still being relayed about.

 

You're right. Truthfully, I don't understand it either. I am bothered by it for a totally different reason (I used to love watching the NFL until it became about anything other than the game. Off-the-field distractions have plagued the beginning of each season for several years even before the protests, and this for me is just another thing that indicates the league is more tabloid news than sport anymore. But I digress, different rant for another time), but I can't relate to this outrage just because some guys couldn't think of a better way to air their grievances.

 

You watch too much news bro. "Racist white cop shoots innocent/unarmed black man," makes top hits. You're just feeding into the media man. I swear, watch some of these videos that they put on national media. Some literally show the cops innocence, but people see something else. It's sad, but like damn bro.

 

Even if you forget about the race dynamic entirely, we still have a problem with trigger happy cops in this country. I'm as white as they come and I like to avoid the police at all costs, for my own safety.

 

*sigh*

 

Bury your head in the sand then.

 

Actually, the image in my head is of Walter Scott in SC, but there are many others. There seems to be an excessive fear of black men. The new Dallas chief of police in a recent interview explained that no matter how unjust or violent their detention, a large black man needs to remain peaceful and passive. He can press for redress with lawyers in the courts system. As a black woman she understands the racial imbalance of the judicial system, but she also understands the fear of white officers in the presence of large black men. Black men live longer if they do not run or react when they are stopped. So far the number of policemen convicted of murder for killing a black man has not passed the number of soldiers convicted of killing Indians.

 

We agree on the main point, although you have removed any mention of the race of the police officer and the dead man. The killer was white and the dead man was black. That is important because of the title of this thread. I do not know what case was referred to as I was quoting someone else.