I Helped A Bunch Of People For Years, Maybe You Have An Opinion On This....

The first 2+ year run was on the Reddit so my archives are there under borninthenorthwest. I only switched here after souring on the Reddit earlier this year.

I've been on NF for 4 years and basically have no compulsions or problems or dependencies. When I first started I was very isolated and did it as a new thing to expand out of my comfort zone and it worked.

Ever since then, it's been easy to go on and off of streaks. 90 Days is nothing to me now. Currently I committed to another 90 and life got so busy I just kept going. It's not any great challenge for me. To some extent I feel no more motivated or outgoing or productive on NF vs. off of it. To some extent anxiety is actually worse on it, but maybe the difference is I never really used much P and doubt if I ever had a dependency to begin with.

Basically at this point I'm wondering if I've gotten everything there is to get out of it. If anything my sex drive is even lower this streak, and it's almost like I'm completely uninterested and unmotivated to pursue dates. With a solid 4 years behind me, it's pretty much factual it's not a flatline. I basically don't feel like I'm getting anything out of it anymore, maybe because it's easy. It's easy and just occasionally uncomfortable. I don't enjoy the wet dreams anymore (the last one I had was about the girl I lost my virginity to, who years later disgusts me....pretty much turned into an unlikable, unkind person, or maybe she always was....the dream itself actually left me feeling pretty gross...a lot of times I don't even remember the wet dreams and when they happen they're even less sexualized than on every previous streak). When there are no wet dreams I rarely wake up with morning wood or any sense of sexuality at all anymore. It could be I built a project studio and make a living in music, and was sitting for such long hours in the studio and on gigs playing guitar, but it's more likely just pressure from reserves building up...sometimes late at night there's a feeling of pressure build up but not horniness....

I never took the easy way out which is what I attribute a lot of the success to. It no longer feels like NF has anything to do with that in life. It no longer feels like MO has any bearing on that in my life. To a large extent I feel fully transformed by NoFap and largely indifferent to it. So I'm sincerely wondering if there's any point in continuing on with it. Obviously I wouldn't be posting this if I wasn't being conscientious about the idea. To some extent I see a community of like-minded folks here devoted to self-improvement and fixing the consequences of poor sexual choices...but I don't struggle with those and am not a monk. It sincerely feels like I have maybe gotten everything there is to get out of this, and I'm not seeing much continued relevance of it in my life. It's almost like I've made it this far to find out that at a certain point you pass beyond it. But I'm weary and skeptical of rationalism. That's not what this is. I don't even fantasize. All of this is purely rational logic. Not horny roads paved with a search for rationalizing an escape. I don't feel caught and so there's nothing to escape from. But the times I've gone back to MO since that first stretch I haven't felt caught either. Stopping is as easy as anything for me, so there's no relevance of the easy way out for me either way anymore. It feels like I've totally moved beyond it all and could pretty much take or leave it any of it at this point. Also, if anything, this streak in particular, I feel in fact more judgmental than before. Seeing my neighbor who forgot to close the blinds and was PMO-ing a few months ago, my first thought while talking to him outside was "he's a wanker." I was never that judgmental before. So in other words, I'm not seeing any improvement from NoFap anymore at this point, nor am I finding any great harm from the on/off times I've gone back for periods before resuming another stretch. It's like the whole thing is pretty irrelevant and everything I need to improve is completely unaffected by NoFap or not.

I also understand that perhaps no one else may understand me here because these things are difficult to express in words.

 

There is absolutely no feeling of rationalization deep down or on the surface. It's like there's nothing to rationalize at all anymore. Re: sex drive, it was definitely much higher all through the first 2+ year run, and still much higher through the on/off phases this year. In other words, I know it's not flatlining and I know it's not normal either

 

Not going to happen. I'm already very holistic, sugar-free, and health conscious, but blood sugar issues alone necessitate large, frequent meals and nutrients in fish, ham, and other animal products. I need to go drink some ACV and take some herbs now (haha)

 

I'm updating this thread instead of being rude starting too many separate threads. Verdict: after much indecision, deliberation, and consideration, I 100% consciously and decidedly tossed 107 days down the drain last night. I don't regret it at all. It was even more illuminating and revealing than previous streaks I made an exit from after the first 2+ year streak, which honestly was probably the only one where I experienced any noticeable improvements. I find this fascinating and maybe you will too, so it's documented here:

NoFap isn't working for me anymore. It's actually simultaneously stressing and repressing me more than ever. However, I reset my badge 5 minutes ago and am committing to another minimum of 100 days (more on the reasons why in a moment).

In order to find out what's going on I had to MO (but no P).

What I was reminded of was that after so long, O actually ceases to be a mind-blowing, amazing experience, and is actually more surreal than ecstatic, and recalled times I'd been with women on the first stretch, where the first time wasn't all that great (normal, of course) and that things didn't really become all that pleasurable until later. Although I felt relief from the MO last night, it isn't anything I would chase over and over again. Danger is in the repetition as habit patterns form and lessons get lost along the way. At this point, 4 years into this, the cold hard truth is that my experimentation is completely inconsequential, because MO no longer hinders or improves my life. It's very indifferent to the whole thing.

The lessons in what NoFap is doing to my sex drive was mind-boggling. It won't be popular or smiled upon around here, and I say so cautiously, because I support you all....I'm with you, but for me at this point....

NoFap is actually suppressing and repressing my sexuality. I know this because it wasn't a flatline. I know it wasn't a flatline because I know my own body and if more conclusive evidence is needed for skeptics, I know this because of the pressure buildup I had felt for some time, along with wet dreams and an awareness my body was horny but not feeling motivated, or even free, to use that sexual desire. One of the many ways I've been able to stop on a dime and easily go on long streaks (much longer than 107 days) has been because of intense self-discipline in my nature. It's how I got good at guitar. It's how I accomplished what little I've accomplished in life. When I do something it comes with such intense focus that it can even overshadow everything else. So I've never had a problem with commitments. One of the ways I always made mine on NoFap were by no fantasizing, no oogling, no edging, and pouring myself into other work ---- but if they call that transmutation, it didn't really hurt --- or help --- with meeting women. I just became a workaholic instead, and when I wasn't working I would only analyze and overthink. That's where things were transmuted. Not into forming relationships or any great increased connections.

This time, the suppression had ceased any morning wood, all but the bare minimum of even feeling desire when I noticed an attractive woman, and just about all acceptance of a sexual nature. I don't blame this on NoFap. I don't blame it on anyone or anything. I see it as a result of crossing the threshold. I never would have experienced this if I did not need NoFap to move beyond it.

Once I reluctantly allowed that sexuality to be experienced again, it was followed by not one, but two full wet dreams...in a row. In other words, the wet dreams have always been my body affirming that the sexuality is still there, but I've paid no attention to even the afterglow or chaser effect after them in order to succeed in commitments to streaks. It's not going to be popular and I may be flamed but don't care anymore --- I've definitely been repressing my basic sexual desires for awhile now. It was like once I allowed it to float to the surface, those repressed desires awoke again.

I figured out that if it was the easy way out (and accepted that it was, because anything short of coming with a woman is an easy way out), then beating your head against the wall isn't any better when that too hurts you. With a submerged sexuality, I was beating my head against the wall and what good is that either. (To keep beating my head against the wall I could succeed on a longer streak but towards what ends; if I was going to be lethargic and unmotivated to pursue women with this repressed sexuality central to succeeding on a NoFap streak, then it wouldn't be true anymore that NoFap was leading to increased connections...I do not mean superficial things like numbers, conquests, or simply "getting laid," but basic human connections....it wasn't helping foster any of those anymore and may in fact have been detrimental to the pursuit...so yes, the MO was a cop-out but no I do not regret it one iota).

Moderation is a good thing in life but most people (myself included) either struggle forever with reaching balance, or have to work years to experience any (sometimes fleeting) glimpse of it.

So it was the most revealing and informing MO perhaps of the past four years. Never has an experience like that given me as much to learn from.

But I'm not going to do it again tonight, or tomorrow night, or next week, or next month, or for the foreseeable future. Why?

Because I'm not a wimp. Because it's only useful when you can learn something from it. Because experimentation is not the same as normalization. Where we get in trouble is where these isolated sexual outlets become normalized. I have personal work left to do. NoFap won't help with it. In fact, at this point in my journey, I can pretty much conclusively say that regular fapping almost certainly would not hurt it. But there's too much else remaining in life to look forward to the next MO. It's not what I signed up for to wake up alone after an orgasm. If I've gotten everything I can from NoFap, and I think I have, then it's not going to fix anything anymore, but I don't need to compound the work that remains with any distraction, sexual or not.

I accept that I'm in a unique place on my journey and that this probably won't make a lot of sense to anyone else. Honesty I felt a great diminishing of the community over on the Reddit the past couple years and showed up here earlier this year seeking to reclaim some of what I felt on that first run when the Reddit was still under 75,000 members and there were regularly Thursday night chats and frequent YouTube video updates and a pretty active community that felt more inclusive and supportive overall. The distinct possibility exists that the only thing that changed was my own paradigm because at any moment in time I could be wrong about anything. What's probably most likely is not that the community itself became any less communal, but that I began needing it less, and so naturally, I began to feel more and more distanced from it.

In any event, what I figured out was that MO with no P wouldn't really hurt me if it was spaced a minimum of every 100 days apart, averaging out to only 3 times per year, which is hardly enough to either form a habit or stop me from engaging in the larger and more important issues to direct my focus on. 3 times a year can't stop me from pursuing women, and I'd rather do it 0 times a year. Basically, if there's anything I need to find out for myself and there's an educational reason for it, no more than every 100 days, I can accept that. Otherwise I have more important things to figure out, and hopefully looking at it this way won't be such a repressive mindset that my entire sense of sexual desire goes out the window. My body needed release. I just haven't been allowing that to swim to the surface for a long time, and hopefully now there'll be some newfound balance again.

Cheers to the next 100 days or more, again. I hesitate to be an egomaniac who says it's easy for him, but....it'll be easy. Like flipping a light switch on and off. That's how I roll.

The end.

 

Honest question (I'm not sure from the way your question is phrased): An accountability partner or a sexual partner? Obviously around here it's not out of the question at all to find accountability partners, but truthfully, I've never really had nor needed one. I've tried to help others and on that first run over on the sub-Reddit, another one of my success mechanisms was hopping onto the forums when I felt urges or when things got tough, and looking for someone else's thread to chime in on and try to help. Maybe I'm blessed with a unique personality, but I never had an accountability partner nor felt the need to pursue one.

As for any possibility of finding a sexual partner, I haven't totally given up. That said, I've worked harder and towards more self-improvement than any of my friends and they're the ones who moved forward in their lives, careers, girlfriends, marriages. I'm the one left with things to resolve. I've actually accepted this with no jealousy or envy --- it's just the way life turned out. Probably getting good at guitar was to me what PMO was to others, and if that's a dark comparison, the silver lining is that of course getting good at anything creative has the potential to improve rather than hurt other people's lives. So it's not a fair comparison. But what I mean is that the guitar was actually what I retreated into most of all. I certainly needed NoFap 4 years ago, for some other reasons, and because I had become entrenched in an escapist pattern with soft P and a lot of MO, but all the momentum and progress and self-growth the past 4 years really had no bearing on the guitar. In fact, as evidence to it only leading to more stress and overwork, that first stretch I did meet more women and did have some nice experiences, but the only girl I ever loved was 6 years ago and at this point I've accepted I cannot change the past and can no longer shame myself for what was or things that did not work out. I take a lot of responsibility for a lot of things in life, but no one can change the past, and that I simply haven't met anyone I've cared about like that since is just the way it is. I was a real wanker when we met. I was a NoFap badass years later, but no one can invent something as elusive as love itself. I never once felt love for a woman on NoFap, but I did back when I was a total wanker. That's just the way my life went and it won't always be so, but thus far, love happens when it happens and cannot be invented. Physically, on NoFap, I pursued opportunities but it was just that...pursuing opportunities until on the tail end of that 2 year stretch I was close to sleeping with a women before thankfully having the chat and finding out she had herpes....so I always used discretion and was wise about choices, but honestly, in a sense....NoFap itself at a certain point had me making compromises rather than leaps with sexual choices....I haven't done that since (getting so close to making a big sexual mistake, I mean --- and it actually sort of scared me off --- which is when I just completely stopped paying attention at all, and dove deeper into work as a distraction), but to some degree, my standards and conscientiousness about wise sexual choices were actually more difficult to maintain the longer the streaks became. I'm not proud of the girl I lost my virginity to. I wasn't really attracted to her to begin with and once thought we were friends but she turned out to be a very unlikable person in the end, and that's sad. To some extent, it had been 10 months on NoFap and I was too horny by then to do anything differently. I'm careful not to be mean or judgmental. In a sense, it was time. But I can't look back on it as having been a great accomplishment with someone I was attracted to or in love with. It just happened like anything else happens. A few weeks ago I had a wet dream about her. It disgusted me because I became that disgusted by her after it became clear what kind of person she was and how she was insensitive and not really kind or considerate (she was a nurse, and some of the ways she would even talk about children were just not cool). So I hope she gets it together and grows as a person but my point is, the women I slept with and hooked up with....NoFap really did seem to lower my standards at a certain point. And yet I absolutely needed it that first stretch. I needed it then and after that it's like I'd crossed the threshold.

I suspect this goes back to balance. I don't agree with what some folks around here say that complete abstinence is necessary to reach balance but I understand that most of us are here because we did not make wise choices with our sexuality to begin with, so it became self-directed to the point of intense harm and disconnection. In my case, I was healed, but haven't felt the same kind of love for a woman since before NoFap ever came into my life, and frankly, didn't have problems with PIED or other sexual problems. Again, probably because the P I did use was always pretty mild. Because I was always good at discretion and reserved in not taking things too far. In the end, I've stayed healthy, away from all diseases, and been fortunate to have exercised restraint and intelligence even at my stupidest.

At this point I'm creatively unfulfilled and professionally unsatisfied. My home has become a train wreck with a bathroom worse than a truck stop with a sink that smells from 3 months of buildup and stench. It's funny but I'm not joking. I wouldn't even date myself in this place. This was ON the 107 stretch; again, at this point, NoFap just redirects me onto other areas of obsession and workaholic syndromes. What did I do on my 107 day stretch? I played an exhausting theater gig and built a project studio. I wrote a couple columns for a reputable guitar publication. I taught some lessons. But I felt no increased connection to nor success or lack thereof with women. There was too much else going on, and basic things like housekeeping and being neat and tidy...simple things that are attractive...went out the window too...no time to go to the gym...I was working 15-16 hours a day some days. In a lot of ways I was actually happier being a big wanker but the past is the past and I have changed too much to go back. I don't want to go back. But I'm just making the point that it's not always true that NoFap really makes things a lot better. Maybe guys who were deep into destructive P use experience better sleep and less anxiety. I wasn't deep into destructive P use. I experienced more anxiety and worse sleep at times. But that was only after the first 2+ year stretch. That I needed. Everything since, I could take or leave. But I'm taking it again because I do think it's true that no one was ever simultaneously masturbating alone while getting laid or more ideally, with the love of their life. And I'm a strong person so I'm taking it (NoFap) instead of leaving it. Every 100 days if I absolutely have to, without any P....okay. Anything less than that is regression though.

I'm currently taking a week off and regrouping, along with cleaning house, and brainstorming the future. I reset the badge this morning and as revealing as last night's exit was, I'm smarter than to chase it again. Physically it awoke my sexuality but it's no good to awaken it and then direct it right back onto myself. I'd like to find a partner, and hold out hope, but have a lot of other things to get squared away first.

 

Yeah, up until this most recent streak (and even though I reset the badge, I'm including this moment on the streak because I can sort of gauge if a streak is completely lost or not based on if the wet dreams stop, and one MO was immediately followed by two wet dreams in a row...so obviously my body is still more used to subconscious releases than MO, and I reset the badge to keep track of these next 100 days or more), wet dreams used to be both enjoyable and helpful. With the most recent streak, they became peripheral (a lot of times not even remembering them), annoying, and one was disgusting (because the girl I had the dream about just repulses me now).

To be clear, I'm certainly not putting down NoFap, and I'm certainly not discounting its monumental importance in my life and self-growth. I'm right back on it for all the doubts I've cast. My main point is one of a bit of sadness, seeing that I don't really feel I am getting anything at all out of it anymore, and yet, the lifestyle itself is better than the alternative, so I stick with it....but I can't get back to those first couple years where everything about it was much more magical. And in the end, I'm not sure if if it was NoFap at all. It was a good time of life. So I'm here. I'm still with and rooting for everyone. But I suppose a lot of the excitement about it is gone.

 

I agree and harbor no aversion or reluctance. Literally, at this point, 4 years in, it's just not something I need, either to be honest or for relational skills, as I have tons of very good friends and relationships in day-to-day life already. This would also be another aspect I attribute to the relative ease and success I have had since the start.....re: keeping others honest, that was the whole reason I looked for folks to help on the Reddit and chime in here on the website version now and again. Helping others helped me for sure, but I never struggled to stay committed, and still don't. I still don't regret the experiment one bit and flipped the switch yesterday. Back on another streak without any difficulty.

Maybe, and if yes, then great. That said, the complete picture is missing, and even though you would have a much greater view of a complete picture after over 40 years, it is amazing how often we are not fully honest with ourselves....I'm not saying he is not, but one of the shifts for me with NoFap was the willingness to accept that at any point in time I could be pulling the wool over my eyes. This extends to the benefits as well as the commitments. I could be mistaken that I needed NoFap to begin with. All I have to go on is anecdotal evidence. Because it seems to work for me, it became part of who I am on a personal level, but I can't show it or prove it to anyone else. Most of us here who have experienced the life-changing benefits probably fit into that category of anecdotal devotees to a better way of life. We stick with it because we know it works for us. That goes back to self-honesty. Because I've never met your friend I am in no position to comment further about him. All I know is my own experience --- and that what appears to be is not always the case. Basically, I don't think any of us were meant to be alone and significantly doubt anyone would desire that, although I do agree that some people adjust to it quite healthily. But at the end of the day a lot of times lack of willingness to make changes is a safe way of insulating ourselves from the acceptance of our own responsibilities. I've had it both ways. I've had periods of doing what is necessary to attract women and enjoyed the company. I've also had periods of intense overworked stress, and let those areas of life fall by the wayside. At those points in time there has been no space in my life to add a partner. But I'm ultimately the one responsible for that (and cleaning house today on a journey out of that reality; making other changes to life and balance to get back to a more balanced and attractive lifestyle).

Okay this I flat-out disagree with, because when it's right, it is a natural phenomenon. Anything invented is a lot closer to projections of the idea of being in love instead of a reality of real love, or a faux PUA invention of seduction and controlling the strings (that stuff actually works if the end goal is purely physical but it's not exactly a healthy or sustainable pathway to actual love & a healthy relationship). In reality, healthy love and enamoration takes two, not one, and (1) trying to invent it by yourself leads to unrequited obsessions (not healthy at all); (2) trying to invent it together --- both yourself and your partner --- just leads to two people in love with an idea more than each other. When it's right it's outside of the realm of thought. Then you have to water it and nurture it, but it doesn't start that way. Love is like a rock and roll band. Bands get formed by accident but they don't survive by accident. It takes will, intent, a shared sense of purpose, and an acceptance of your partner's own fallibilities...and that only evens the odds. It seems like what you are describing is more the health & strengthening of an already effective relationship, but the relationship itself begins with two already healthy people who meet at the right place and right time.

 

My mind has been giving this some conscientious and serious thought all week and I think I've figured it out, with no more writings needed after this: I neither get anything from NoFap nor MO anymore. Maybe at one point I got something out of each but at this point both seem just as distant. Therefore, I am simultaneously beating my head against the wall and repressing my sex drive, long after being healed. There is no chance whatsoever of a return to the way things were 10 years ago. It's not been appealing ever since the first stretch that changed me forever.

Therefore, I am unofficially leaving NoFap but not returning to MO just because I no longer get anything out of NoFap. Both are peripheral and almost irrelevant to me at this venture in life. So I'm leaving NoFap without leaving behind what I got from it back when it was something that gave back and informed the rest of my life: I'm taking that with me, but at least for the time being, leaving the forums and whatever anyone else thinks about whether I've been a success or failure on it. I see no return to MO (stopping really is that easy and wanking away is completely the antithesis of connection and love, or even a superficial encounter with another person). At the same time, I don't see much left for me here. So I'll be out there, doing good deeds in the world (maybe logging into my account out of curiosity next time I wonder how long it's been, but at a certain point, I always wind up forgetting or caring....I've been at this long enough that it's more normal to not MO than it is to, and so at this point....I don't need this anymore...and any official pronouncement of commitment has only helped when I needed some kind of accountability to get my life on track, but....I don't need that anymore to be fine).

All my best wishes for the whole future. Be well folks. If I need you I know where you are and that I can come back. For now, getting away is what I need