"You can't say you love animals if you still eat meat."

If you would removed all animal farms it would be expected that number of farm animals would increased so automatically
demand for food would also increase. Is our economic structure built to withstand that kind of demand for food, keep in mind that with current population we still have problems with distribution of food and goods and you think that it is good idea to limit food sources.

d
India has big economic support from other countries and because of their amount of cows they become interesting to other countries, and this is the thing that is most helpful for their economy. Statistically looking 20-40% is very high percentage for country that has estimated population at 1,380,004,385. You tell me that India is not that poor country and than you explain that reason for that is basically because of dependence of other culture that consume meat products and dairy products.

 

I didn't say any of that

 

That's not necessary if they eat fortified foods. Wich well, is basically supplemented food, so you still would be technically right, but you don't call your cereal a supplement do you? About the variety, yeah, that's kind of a MUST.

 

I don't love the animals I eat.

 

Yes you can love animals as a meat eater. You can hunt and eat animals and still love them.

 

I wouldn't know, I'm not a vegan man. All I heard from them was they needed to eat a lot of different types of foods, compared to when they weren't vegan because they weren't getting nearly enough.

 

To be fair most people with an omnivore diet doesn't have enough variety either.
But for vegans is more of a struggle than a lazy/habit thing. Is like, you need to make sure that eat certain foods so your body can create Vitamin A (very inefficiently I must add) you better eat fortified foods and take a good sunbath for Vitamin D3 (nope vegans, Vitamina D2 ain't the same thing) eat lots of fortified food with B12 or supplement with pills, you better eat many different protein sources to have a balanced aminogram total intake, your Iron sources are not efficient, most of it will go to waste, so you better again, have fortified foods or eat lots of Iron rich plants, and so on and so on.....Can you survive on it? Yes, is it efficient? Not even close

I could just eat some liver and cover all the stuff mentioned before, and more...

 

@FellatiousD "The greatest privilege that comes with free speech is the right to use your voice for those who don't have one" - Ricky Gervais

Never stop speaking for the animals mate, your doing a good thing

 

How good are fortified foods for you anyways? Due to not having a job, having no money, and not being able to afford much food, I've turned to cheaper things like oatmeal and such. Since my diet I assume lacks many proper things, is it a better than nothing approach? lol

It says on the back of the packages that they're "fortified" with this and that, but do those vitamins and minerals actually get fully absorbed when eaten, or are they more of a gimmick? Since they're stored in a package and not from a fresh source, are you not getting a good source of what you need?

 

Optics are everything. A lot of people hear vegan arguments and say "well you sound like a self-righteous asshole, so I'm just going to plug my ears and pretend you don't exist." So you can't be bitter like me. And then there are some people who are offended simply because they are asked to reconsider their moral positions.

 

I rather have the superior protein provided with meats, humans need both Meats and Plants to survive since they are Omnivores.

Edit: plus meat is easier to cook since it lacks cell walls

 

It is not inferior to eat multiple types of amino acid chains rather than complete proteins found in meat. It just requires more planning. Humans do not require meat, otherwise I would have been dead years ago.

 

Yes absolutely.
This reminds me of another Ricky Gervais quote "Just because your offended doesn't mean your right"

 

It would depend of the fortification method, some are the equivalent of mixing foods and calling it "fortified" and others are the equivalent of taking pills along with the foods, the second one specially, I cannot say is a gimmick, but I seriously don't trust it, specially for liposoluble Vitamins, is one of the areas that I don't have enough knowledge to completely condemn or approve. I rather stick to more natural sources.

Oatmeal is great, organs meats are amazing, is very cheap depending on where you live, even organic/grassfeed ones, just find a butcher that does grassfeed and make a deal with him, rice is a super versatile food too, wholegrain pasta is ok, and of course, being omnivore doesn't stop from being able to benefict from chickpeas, lentils, etc..there are some cheap options out there to have a very rich diet, you don't have to live on ribeyes. Stewing, the art of stewing is something everyone should now.

 

Grocery stores here ended up raising their prices to ridiculous amounts on everything, using the pandemic as an excuse. It's not like I had meat (and it's mainly chicken I eat) that often to begin with though, and really it's when I find that stuff half off.

Unfortunately you have to sometimes buy whatever is cheapest/on sale when you're desperate and struggling, but at the same time I'm trying to find a balance with healthy things too so it's been challenging. I see a ton of fortified foods through my browsing and wondered if I should opt for more of those, because a lot of the time they're on sale and within my budget.

 

Anyone here ever watch Cory McCarthy on youtube? He's a conservative vegan bodybuilder. A lot of his videos are about dispelling the "soy protein lowers testosterone" myth. It's because of him that I'm thinking of trying veganism for myself.

 

No I haven't but I'm going to look him up. I doubt he's an ethical vegan if you say he's conservative, but I hope I'm wrong. I encourage you to give veganism a serious consideration. I'll toss you a link, but it takes a lot of research to get a complete diet plan down. I'm still struggling with discipline when it comes to nutrition.

https://veganhealth.org/

 

He actually is an ethical vegan. I'm gonna check out your link.

 

I've been following veganhealth.org for some years now, to at least a limited extent. I appreciate their blunt honesty in reporting the actual scientific findings. For example, the 1990's meta-analysis study that was done on five separate dietary studies, including the Oxford study in England and the big Adventist Health study based in Loma Linda, California--it's amazing that they actually published it on veganhealth.org, because the results were not too flattering for vegans. Vegans had about the same mortality, overall, as did the meat eaters. Vegans will die far, far less often for things like diabetes, but they may have more than double the risk in other areas, such as cervical cancer.

My understanding is this: vegans, over time, become depleted on essential stores of vitamin B12, as well as, perhaps, some other nutrients, like vitamin D, perhaps lysine, depending on the diet. Homocysteine can rise, and, while less exposed to certain illnesses, and therefore less likely to contract them, once they do become ill with one their bodies simple have less resistance to offer against it. I have known vegans, friends of mine, who have died in their thirties of a brain tumor, nearly passed away, almost paralyzed and unable to walk, in their 30's, one young lady became weak and nearly unable to walk in her late teens--but pulled out of it by putting some milk and eggs back into her diet. I've had close contact with, and was able to observe, a toddler child of vegan parents whose hair was discolored, was developmentally retarded (a least a year and a half behind schedule, i.e. not talking much yet at four years of age, and walking like a two-year old), with kwashiorkor's disease--and this in a very well-developed country. For those less familiar with this condition, it is what characterises the pictures of all those starving Africans we've seen, whose bellies are large and distended while their limbs look like little more than bones. The belly on this child was distended in like manner--even though he was eating three meals a day. He just was not getting the protein that he needed.

Before continuing, I should make it clear that I am a vegetarian, have been all my life, and in no way do I mean to say people need meat to get adequate protein. The problem with some vegans is not so much that they have a poor diet, but that many of them have become fanatical and unbalanced. Their lack of balance causes them to see even natural things like "milk" as "non-vegan" and therefore "sinful." Fortunately, there are a few vegans who are more moderate, but I have met many who were crusaders for their own fanatical imbalance, seeking to push it upon others. Sigh.

There is no adequate source of vitamin B12 in a purely vegan diet. None. If you want to live without even a little milk or egg, the safest course is to be taking a daily supplement of vitamin B12. Personally, I just have some eggs or some yogurt now and then. It's easier than getting B12 shots, which I have also done when clinically deficient. The dietary with the least overall mortality was the pescatarians--those who ate milk, eggs, and some fish, but no other meats. I don't eat fish, and think they're highly toxic these days, but they do have some advantages. Reasonable people can see advantages and disadvantages to each point, not merely holding to a lopsided view. Meat and dairy products are all high in sulfur, which is a positive. But I'll stay away from anything that has blood, thank you very much.

 

Hey thanks for the input. I don't believe in the concept of sin, so I try to base my dietary choices on as much scientific knowledge as I currently have at the given time. The entire basis for veganism in my opinion is morality. It just so happens that most people can afford to be vegan and also have adequate nutrition. Based on my moral principles, I believe that having to supplement calcium, B12, etc. is a superior position than contributing to the dairy industry, which I basically see as one of the greatest evils humanity has ever participated in. I will still be able to live a long life and get all the nutrients I need, even if they aren't from natural sources. (By the way, the cows we see today are hardly natural, since we selectively breed the fuck out of them and shoot them up with ridiculous amounts of hormones and antibiotics, as well as supplements of their own).