The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the nofap community is they don't make difference between lapse and relapse. Knowing the difference is one of the keys to overcome addiction. Relapse mean pmo like you used to. Lapse mean pmo just once or 2 times (less than you used to) It is very important to see the difference cause when you lapse, some people see themselves as failure. They are not failling, lapse is part of the process. Unlike what people believe here, lapse is part of the process. People who are addict to alchool, when they try to stop in a year time, 80% of them lapse, but not relapse. You should have realize by now that, you pmo less and less when you lapse. It will eventually disapear. If you do experience a lapse or a relapse this is an opportunity to explore what happened and what could be done in future to prevent it from happening again. Do not believe all those success stories when people claims to overcome that addiction first try. They post their success after the 90days period but never post back if they lapse after that first success, so noone knows if they really got rid of pmo. The bottom line is: lapse and relapse are different. Go read article about addiction, relapse and lapse. You are on your way, lapse is part of the process. You are NOT failling.
Using cute words isn’t going to change anything. Relapse is relapse. If you go back to using your drug of choice, you relapsed. Doesn’t matter if it was once or 10 times. You haven’t discovered anything ground breaking. Unless you’ve defeated this addiction? How long is your streak?
"Unless you’ve defeated this addiction?" And this is nonsense, nobody can defeat an addiction. You learn to control it, but you can't defeat it. We are porn addict and we will stay as such the rest of our lives, and it doesn't matter if you didn't fap for 10 years or for 4days. The gate are open and stay open. You will always be at the mercy of this addiction if you are not carefull. Like they say in alchoolic recovery center "one drink is too much, hundreds drinks are not enough". That's the reason, you need to make the journey as confortable as possible cause this journey will never end.
I didn’t realize “overcome” and “defeat” were such vastly different words, to where you felt the need to correct me: That tells me all I need to know about you. You have a victim mentality. You come from a place of helplessness, rather than empowerment. You certainly haven’t defeated your addiction, but don’t go around telling others they haven’t when they actually have. Telling yourself “I haven’t defeated my addiction I’m just controlling it” is not going to help anyone. Maybe you will, but I definitely won’t. What a pathetic thing to say.
That is not how pmo addiction works. Progress is not linear. It’s more like going x amount of time followed by binging. You’ve just contradicted yourself. Do you know what linear means? As for beating myself up after relapse, that’s exsctly what I do. That’s the only way to actually gain the motivation to stop. If you pat yourself on the back for relapsing or “lapsing” as you want to call it, then what reason do you have to not do it again? You really need to stop coddling each other with this non sense or you will never actually beat this addiction. Your name is HOCD anyways, so we all know you suffer from victim mentality. No wonder you gravitate towards posts like these.
That is literally no different than porn, so I don’t know why you mentioned it as if it was lesser. Masturbating and orgasming is not a minor slip up. It’s a full on relapse. If you were to apply this logic to say, looking at porn or sexual images without touching yourself, then I would absolutely agree with you to treat as not a huge deal and simply move on from it. But having a full on pmo session, 10 minutes or 10 hours, is a full on relapse. You gave in completely and your mind got what it wanted. That’s a relapse. Sure, and having a full on pmo session is akin to getting shit faced drunk. I’m not sure how you fail to see this. Binging or not, a complete pmo session is a relapse. So is a complete MO session, as doing it without porn is no better in anyway. If you want to keep giving yourself permission to relapse, by all means go ahead. As long as you capitulate by focusing on reducing frequency, you’ll never break free. All or nothing is the best method there is. It doesn’t mean that failure isn’t going to happen. It just means that you should recognize your failures and let them serve as wake up calls. If you just brush it off, you haven’t created any association to what you just did in a negative light. Which means it will be easier for you to give in and do it again. After every relapse I’ve had I’ve always used the post nut clarity to go straight into game planning a new streak. The times that I didn’t do that, I inevitably relapsed again. Whether it was the next day, a week, or a few weeks from then. You simply can’t take a relaxed approach to this if you actually want to stop completely. Your streak should be on your mind. Because that’s the only way to keep it going. Otherwise over time you’ll forget why you’re doing it and end up in relapse. The problem I have with that is I’ve seen people blame porn for making them gay. Maybe it’s not related to HOCD, you’re welcome to correct me if I’m wrong. But porn does not make you gay. If you have thoughts of being gay, you certainly shouldn’t be watching gay porn. Otherwise those thoughts are warranted.
That is exactly why escalation doesn’t apply to gay porn. You don’t escalate to things that repulse you. Escalation is only mildly true in the confines of your sexuality. Any straight male who know he’s straight would have the same reaction as you. So please, don’t go around agreeing with people who suggest that “escalation” is responsible for their decision to watch gay porn, despite them being “straight.” There must be a reason that you specifically obsess over whether you’re gay or not. It sounds like you aren’t doing anything that would suggest that you are, so what is it that triggers these compulsive thoughts for you? Possibly, but believe it or not it’s a physical condition of your brain. It is not a purely mental condition. The physical state of your brain is causing this. Do you smoke weed or do any other drugs? There is some truth to what you’re saying. It’s really not that simple though. I’m just coming off a binge and I feel better than ever and more determined than ever to go the distance. So technically even in my binging, I was still making progress, because it led me to this streak. Why? Because even in the midst of my binging I knew I had to stop eventually. My semen retention values never left me, I was only putting them to the side momentarily until I decided to get back on the horse. Progress isn’t about lessening frequency in my opinion. Because as long as you still do it, you’re still a slave to it. You are still relying on it. Only when you remove it completely can you really taste freedom and true progress. With that said, yes, having only 1 relapse here and there, is not nearly as bad as daily use. BUT, your mindset around that is what matters the most. You say you don’t permit “lapses” but yet you told me before that you’re only focused on lessening frequency. So technically, you are permitting them.
Did you really need to ask me that? Do I sound gay to you? It is absolute non sense. The concept of escalation with porn is already shady as it is. To apply it to watching gay porn as a straight man, is so far off the deep end it’s not even funny. All that “escalation” is, is seeking novelty. A straight man does not seek novelty by going to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Only someone who is clearly confused with their sexuality does that. There are a billion genres of porn, different types of women to watch within genres, and on and on and on, that one can seek novelty in. I for one, could look at the same thing multiple times while I m and still enjoy it. So with the billions of heterosexual pictures and videos available, there is absolutely no reason to go and watch gay porn. It is not normal, and definitely NOT common. I can’t believe how many of you on here actually go around patting each other on the back and telling yourselves that it’s common and normal. It really tells me that they have zero friends in real life. I watched porn for at least 12 years and never once have I watched gay porn, animal porn, human excrement porn, or anything close to it. Yet, I’ve still been addicted to porn and masturbation all that time. Every single day for most of that time, minus the past 3 or so years. And, I know damn well none of my friends have either. Point being, it’s not normal, or common, and never will be. Just because people severe issues congregate here and have similar problems, does not mean it’s common among the general population, which yes is vastly addicted to pmo. So yeah, Idk how you guys got yourself into that mess, but I’m here to tell you that straight men don’t do that, ever. And once again, it’s not normal or common. So don’t blame porn for it, blame your decision making. That’s all. Now if anyone would like to respond with something other then “ you don’t know wheat you’re talking about I know so many guys it happened to it blah blah blah.” I encourage you to read this message again.
I agree there is a difference between a relapse and lapse, just like there is a difference between occasional and habitual behavior. I think it’s important for some though to understand that making these distinctions don’t lessen their seriousness; in fact they can even increase the seriousness of the behavior as someone who does something occasionally could be considered as having an increased culpability than someone who does something habitually. It’s good though to have these distinctions in terms because addicts are prone to judge things in extremes, so understanding differences in behavior can help someone grow in prudence. With that said, I think the OP’s message is undercut when they say things like this… This kind of talk is another form of extremism that I find unhealthy in recovery. What makes it appealing is that it includes some truth to it such as the need for caution, but just because someone should be cautious does not equate that they’re still an addict: for example, people who’ve never done drugs are cautioned about the use of drugs because they can lead to addiction. Does the fact that they need to be cautious mean their addicts? Likewise if you are 1 year, 2 years, 10 years, etc free of a relapse can we really say you’re still an addict? I mean how are you going to say in the same breath that a relapse is not the same as a lapse and then say a person 10 years clean is still an addict like the person who is 1 day clean? Makes no sense whatsoever to me.
I found this article, Idk if it is really true, but it sounds encouraging and reasonable, good to consider https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...sons-why-once-addict-always-addict-is-harmful About lapse vs relapse, I understand relapse is like being hit by a car and lapse is like being hit by a bicycle: both are things to avoid but one is worse than other
Please specify how exactly that proves me wrong. If I told you how I really would describe them, I’d be banned. Someone who went back and forth like that was obviously never stable with their sexuality to begin with. I will ask you again to not describe it as “through porn addiction” otherwise you will have to justify why the vast majority of heterosexual porn users never watch gay porn, ever, despite being porn addicted. What do you think the difference is there? I never said their testimonies are false. Only their interpretation of what happened.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the debate is whether a cold turkey aproach to addiction is better or weening off of addiction is better. Personally I feel like whatever works is the method to go with as both methods have their pros and cons
The discussion is about a cold turkey approach and how not all failures along the journey of recovery constitute a relapse, and that these failures aka lapses are a normal part of the recovery process. The purpose of making these distinctions is to keep addicts from falling into extremes when it comes to their outlook on their failures and their recovery progress. The opposition to this thinks the distinctions are an excuse to fall or they fear it would be used as an excuse to fall. While it’s understandable why someone who thinks in extremes would take this view, it is somewhat misguided since pointing out the observable differences in behavior does not equate to a justification of such behavior nor does it seek to lessen the ethical seriousness of such behaviors. Plus to say we can’t acknowledge the observable differences in behavior simply because an irrational person might take that the wrong way in order to rationalize their wrong behaviors is insane; especially since an irrational person wouldn’t be helped by spewing more irrational positions either. Simply put there’s no winning with someone who is irrational so there’s no need to tip-toe around them.
