Maybe I am misreading here, but it sounds like you are reducing love to something purely physical and are not considering the fact that staying with someone and building a household and a family with someone in spite of this porn and sex addiction and the effects it has on someone’s brain shows that there is a strong bond between those 2 people ? What is love if it’s not looking in the same direction ? I’d be curious to know more about your story, and where you stand in regards with your marriage if you have one, because to me you seem to be a little bit too black and white, when a P addict should definitely know that it’s not all black and white and that it is very much full of grey areas. Unless your definition of love is the one from the dictionary, you should definitely know that love in real life, even without PMO addiction coming in the way is a bit more complicated than the definition from the dictionary. Last, even if you think every word you wrote, what’s the point coming in the topic of someone who’s suffering of huge anxiety and say things which could potentially trigger them, especially if you’re not even sharing anything from your experience or trying to help with a solution. it kind of makes me question the why you are on this forum if it’s not to be empathetic to people in distress
I don't read it that way. What I see is him expressing how he truly feels in this moment even though as you point out well his actions and feelings are not lining up at all. This seems from my short experience here on NOFAP to be a textbook account of what P addictions can do to the ones using. It literally can screw up our entire belief system. The self-centered mentality of pleasure equating to love seems to catch many of us in one form or another. It seems very common to think that, since the sexual needs of the addict are not being met many question if the love is completely gone. When in reality most don't even know what love fully is and don't realize that the "need" is literally unattainable in real life because of the overindulging in p and other sexual things no single person is good enough. This is one of many lies we tell ourselves is true when acting out in full blown addiction. It takes an A-hah moment like I believe @JohnDoe84 had to even question the world he's created. I applaud @JohnDoe84 for his honesty, as this is the first step for him to challenge his views in his mind from what has happened in the last 15 years. It's not easy to admit and question the things he's asked. It will take time for him to work through all of this and come to conclusions on how his addiction has affected his life. I look forward to reading more posts, and continuing to challenge himself.
Brutal honesty here, be prepared to feel this way a lot through this process, if you can continually work on focusing on your feelings and issues, certain comments can sound different 3 months later than they did. Believe me I know from experience. I highly recommend rereading comments many times as what can often happen is we get triggered and then stop listening. But as we work on issues, we are able to hear comments from a different perspective than we once did. There are grey areas for sure, some are mixtures of real feelings and P induced ones like I expressed before, there are also black and white truths about certain things, like how addiction affects the brain and how people behave and act because of it. You started asking questions about some of that in your first post, focus on that, that's where healing comes from. Keep that in mind on some of these challenging posts, and continue to formulate your feelings on these issues you have expressed. I admit this is a difficult thing to do, I've been there man. Keep expressing yourself, be honest with yourself, and challenge your views in search of truth.
When someone speaks the truth to you, learn to listen. That person will be the most valuable person in your recovery. AA says “take what you can and leave the rest.” Take what Jerry said and internalize, but maybe leave behind how he said it.
You asked whether or not your behaviour indicates that you love your wife. I gave you an honest answer. Sometimes the most empathetic thing you can do is to be truthful with someone. My idea of love is that it compels you to care about the well-being of the other person. When I say that I love my children, I mean that I would sacrifice my own happiness for theirs. In a given scenario, I'm less concerned about my own welfare than theirs. You've not mentioned on one occasion how you think your behaviour has impacted your wife. Your post is all about you and how you feel. You're criticising me for risking causing you anxiety, but you need to take account of how your own behaviour might be impacting your loved ones. My advice would be to think less about how you feel and think more about how they feel. You've described yourself as having strong core values, so think about what duties those values entail and how you can live up to them.
Hello Jerry, I think you’re kind of needlessly playing with semantics. If I’m here writing, it is because I know something’s wrong, and I know what it is (hence I am here sharing and writing on NoFap) My question is not whether I love my wife the way she deserves it, the answer is quite obvious, no, and I am « sick », so I guess I’m just loving her the best way I can at the point where I currently stand. My question here is regarding the reality from the point of view of where am I standing. I’m trying to understand if what I feel is due to my addiction to porn and escorts or not, if others are experiencing similar feelings, relate to what I feel or if this is just me and that maybe I just ran out of love for my wife. Do you see what I mean ? I am not yet to the point where I am able to play on what loving someone really means. Do you really think that when you are feeling extreme anxiety and circling thoughts you are in a state of debating about love on a philosophical level ? Bottomline is yes I obviously get your point, but it is kind of irrelevant when I am suffering of a crippling anxiety episode.
How's the process of working through this going for you? Have you been able to work on anxiety? Any new thoughts on how you are feeling?
I think I answered your question in a pretty straightforward manner, you're the one that asked me about how I define love. You're asking whether your lack of loving feelings and behaviours is a symptom of your addiction or whether you simply no longer love your wife. Based on what you've described, I think it's the latter. Hope the feelings of anxiety improve and you gain the clarity you need.
My opinion is that addiction along with lust completely kills the addict's capacity to love. I think that's the case for me. So yes, Jerry is right in one aspect. The love is gone. But despite no longer loving someone, it doesn't mean that I cannot make the choice to start loving them again. I think Jerry would definitely agree with me that love is more a choice, a decision, rather than a feeling that overtakes me. The feelings of love can come back. But I don't believe that love can cohabitate with lust and porn. @JohnDoe84 , that's going to take some work on your part. Do you really want to stop using porn? Are you willing to go to any length to stop? Are you willing to seek out a recovery program and work it each day to the best of your ability? The opposite of addiction is connection. Love is about connection. Lust is about addiction. The two cannot coincide.
I agree that it's not just a feeling that overwhelms you. You have to first invest in your relationship with the other person and you can't do that if you're only investing in yourself. Addiction makes you selfish, you only think about what you want and need, which is the opposite of what love is. I'm no expert on addiction or its treatment but the advice to make a serious commitment to recovery seems sound to me. The same could be said for recommitting to the vows taken upon marriage. Act as though they are binding in a serious way. Act as though breaking your word just isn't an available option.
I think in this case love is step two. Step one would be for op to clear his mind first, and for that he needs to fight the addiction. Once he is capable of thinking clearly then he can ask himself if he loves his wife or not. Right now his vision is compromised. He said this goes against his values and that is feasible as every porn addict goes against their own values. Going back your original questions, I'd say a lot of us could relate to some of the things you feel which is precisely why some people is prompting you to take a stand against your behaviour. Love is not black and white but a commitment such a marriage is. If your marriage is white, you are going full on black noir. You may build a castle, even an entire nation with your partner but with your behaviour it would be like building it on sand. I don't know if you can feel love for your wife but next time you go seeking passion outside your relationship try really hard to think how your wife would feel, try picturing her pain the tears the screams. Gotta make up your mind because this goes beyond love, on the other end there is a person whose life may be completely crushed by your actions. I sense a lot of confusion which is why I think making up your mind comes first, then recovery, then love.
Hi @JohnDoe84. All the "symptoms" you describe, I have the same ones: - low desire to my wife - not knowing if I love her or not - sometimes feeling disgust if she touches me... - fantazising with other women... The only thing I refrain to is cheating on her, I simply wouldn't be able to do that on her... All of this, I told to my wife, I am trying to be more sincere... My problem with porn also starts during my teenage years, and I cannot make it stop, it is really hard...
