Beginning to question the bible...

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. The Valiant

    The Valiant Fapstronaut

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    I'd like to say first that I'm a strong believer of God and have been all my life. I'm beginning to question the bible and my religion because of the way they depict God. Put simply, the bible tells us that God created us just to worship him and if we don't, we will be heavily punished despite how good we were. I do believe in God, but I refuse to believe this.
     
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  2. I lean into the two greatest commands--Love God and Love Others. I also don't know how I could have journeyed this far into recovery without getting to know God more and understanding my need for grace and mercy that He provides. Much in the Bible can be confusing. But the greatest commands and grace/mercy/forgiveness are foundational for me.
     
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  3. bken

    bken Fapstronaut

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    Most groups of people in history have had their gods. The Greeks, the Egyptians, Mayas, etc. Just because the Bible is more recent doesn't mean it's not fallible. It has serious racist and violent traits that have made me question it as well. I've actually become more of an agnost as well. I won't give up on God, I just don't think man has the full knowledge of who He is. Religion most likely is a sort of tool to spread the core truth and moral law among men. In the end it's all about love. Our god, their god, this causes division and hate. Just look at Christians and Muslims for instance. Murdering each other over a god they have never even seen.
     
  4. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    Yeah, the God character is pretty insane at times. God is absolutely nuts in the story of when he appears to Moses in the burning Bush. After answering all of Moses questions and convincing him to go back to Egypt God wants to kill Moses because his kids aren't circumcised. I mean wtf? Why even even try to convince him to go to Egypt if you plan to kill before he even goes back there? Lol! Sometimes God in the Bible is rather petty and childish.

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  5. Hold it in

    Hold it in Fapstronaut

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    Perhaps. This is probably not going to sound too good for my faith in Christianity but everytime I 'get serious' as a Christian it always leads me back to Philosophical Taoism. And the Tao Te Ching

    All the acrobatics I have to do in Christianity is really hard for me. I will admit that if you can adhere to that you have my applause. It's a difficult walk for sure

    I'm a simple guy. I need something that isnt so volatile and abrasive
    I hope God understands. I'm not in no way abandoning my faith in him I'm just taking a break from that

    Perhaps I'm not letting go enough. Either way I will be back to try again
     
  6. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

  7. C12345

    C12345 Fapstronaut

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    Yeah King James fucked up the Bible, I wish I could read the original texts. Everything Christians argue about (heaven, hell, trinity) are because of King James purposely mis translating to fit his bill. When all the apostles died Christianity went to shit.
     
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  8. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    It all comes down to what "worship" means to you. Worshiping God for me is normal, worship means to be in awe by what He is, what He has done and how tiny i am in relation to him. To be in awe be the creation of the universe, of life and of self consciousness, the greatest miracles in existence, things that go completely against any logic.

    What's not to worship when He is always ready to forgive our sins and grant us anything we ask for?

    To worship God is to show humbleness and to acknowledge your limitations.

    For most "worship" means adoration and intricate acts of sermons but that is a mistake. In reality the only way to praise and serve God is to follow the Bible and make good deeds.

    You can pm me if you want to talk further.
     
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  9. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Going to hell has much less to do with whether or not you worship God as it has to do with whether or not you've been forgiven of your sin. When you say, "we will be heavily punished despite how good we were," that suggests that you think our salvation should be based on the merit of our own goodness--but the Bible clearly rejects that. Christians are saved by grace. How "good" we were doesn't even factor in.

    But it does raise the question, how do you measure your own goodness? You might be good compared to Charles Manson, but you're not good compared to Mother Theresa. So by what standard are you measuring it, exactly?
     
  10. Nah, it's mostly people in church who are spreading lies, because really there is not right church in this time except one, and that one church is Christ church, but the fact is that, that one right church is not grouped into any religious denomination, those are people who allowed Christ in their heart.
    And yes, there is a reason why you question this, because it is hard to fight urges if you think God that way, it soon will trigger your anger as many , and become atheist, or become as in Bible say " living death".
    So, in fact , people in church are spreading lies about hell, because they want to force you their opinions about God.
    That's why many preachers are demanding (okay, from one side, truth is demanding, and isnt something you should go carelessly, but also truth want you to take it slowly, with willingness to change), but their demanding and authoritative bahaviour maybe they started at first with true intentions, but after time, they just become authoritative and talk, and talk, and talk, but nobody in church is doing nothing except that they must praise God and have fake smile and fake praise.
    And people in church also dont do nothing because Spirit of God is one who change hearts and help them move on, but preachers dont have that, because they lost it due to many sins (i recently saw a thread on this forum, and saw that many preachers have problem with PMO , and when i say problem, it means that they have struggle, BUT still it means that they fall on it, and no matter, sin is sin, and if repeated it will infuence, so it influences in their speaking).
    Just think of it also, if people are better in faith, really that would mean that our younger generations would be much better, and should do something about God, but of course parents who go to church dont educate children about God, because they are still in flesh, and every attempt to do so is resulting in young rebbelion, which is just natural part of rejecting what is unright from parents, but young should keep themselves to have respect for parents, even if they dont love them, in that way they will have respect for God and listen his voice what to do when everything is corrupted.
    And also, this is faith and keeping faith, when you want to stop lust, when you are fighting something against even if you dont know what will be consequences, you want to live Godly life, that is real faith, not what old womans in church tell others about themselves, that they keep faith etc etc.

    And also, i would suggest you to forget everything what church said, because it is lies, church is organization based on fear not on love,
    So (you must be heard) God is love and doesnt punish people just like that.

    Hey, you sinned , ha, it's time you to die.


    But hey, THEN, WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED THAT WAY (READ JOBE IN BIBLE WHAT HE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT PAIN AND PUNISHMENT), you can stand up (even if fallen as human nature), and tell God that it is not fair neither righteous.

    Why i say so.

    Because you can tell God that it is unwisely to send you to hell for sin, but still created you, gave you life.
    Why you (God) didnt killed Noah also, so there wont be future generations, so i wont be born, and so i wouldnt have to go in hell.
    Is that what you call love?
    Is it?
    To give life to people and just like that, still to kill them?


    My answer:

    Heh, you even can see that church doctorine is just nonsense.
    It is church which is wrong not God.
    And what is hell after all.

    If you die, how can you still live to have punishment, eternal fire and burning and soul killing and i dont know what picture are preachers talking about (and yelling about).

    Start with reading Bible, start at Jobe, it will be a good start of God character.
    Forget everything from church what they said to you, because believe me soon you will find another one, or maybe you dont need to be in any religious organization at all.
    If you continue attending in church, you are more likely to forget what Bible said, but if you stop going in church for a while, while you study Bible alone, and go after, to tell people what you learned about real character of God.

    In Jobe, book is talking about a man, who had life , he had life, hard working, and he kept faith and wanted to keep going, but he lost everything, his children, everything, and it is really painful, for him, but also it is same painful for today man in such situation.
    Many in church talk about that book, like "uh, that is very hard book to understand, many people need to study together to understand it", but no, it is about man who is sinner in nature and trying his best throught faith to comfort God.
    You see, trying best throught faith, that is to give all what you have, all best energies to make your life better, so you can live according to God laws.
    But in that, when he lost everything, he was just hammered in face, and shocked, and was very hard long time.
    That is the question, where is God when you are in deepest pain.
    Many would say, God is gone, but that is question nobody has answer, but right thing to do is to keep faith.
    And i will tell you from my experience, it is easire said than done, you really get uncomfortable about situation, but this is time to strenghten faith more than ever.
    Those are people who God never reject.
    Hey, he were on God's side even in good times, and in bad times even more?
    Hey, God see that effort.
    And after a while, God gave him double more than anything he possesed.
    So tell me , is God a authoritative and demand obedience at every cost, when he help someone at struggle and give again?

    Also God really will sent to eternel death (not hell, not eternal punishment, in His eyes that is unacceptable, He doesnt enyoy human pain)
    people who at all cost reject Him, when God show them truth in a good way, and they are too proud to be humble and accept God, those people who are dying.
    Pride is what God punishes and destroys, because pride is opposing not just His laws, but also his mercy to forgive and give new life.

    Just dont be pridefull, and i promise you that you soon will hear a voice of mercy, which want to give you new life.
    And also, God demands obedience now because people are those who are pridefull and reject God's mercy and forgiveness, it is His lawfull right to demand obedience.
    BUT, BUT, AND BUT, He know it is His lawful right, he also want people to answer not to voice of fear and law, He want people to answer to voice of mercy and forgiveness , so you can start over with your life, better relationships etc.

    And yea, what brought you here, to stop PMO.
    Isnt it God's forgiveness, and encourage you to start changing your life in small steps.
    If you listen it's voice, you will understand many truths about God's character.

    First , try to learn a God's character from Bible.
    It really doesnt matter anything else if you dont know God's character, because if you dont like to listen God who is forgiving, and because of His nature, you can stop right when you see God's character, you shoudnt force yourself.

    And believe me, it is way better to say to God one big NO, than to force yourself at obedience based on fear.

    And also, believe me, when you say NO (you even can tell anything ugly if you want, it is way better that fake smiles and fake lies in church, because if you force yourself into that, you really will never understamd God's true character), God really understamds you.
    You even can become atheist if you want that way, forget people in church, and find a positive people in life, and believe me what i say to you, God wont stop from seeking you to know truth.
    Because right when you say NO, God see and forgive, and you know what else, He learns you slowly, but you will understand.
    But also, one thing, just dont go into sins of world, it will blind you and really wont help you (and yea, it means again PMO), it really will draw you away from God.
    So, just keep your foot where you are right now, because God is coming to learn you what you need to do about your life.

    I dont know if i am wrong, (i never said NO to God, maybe when it is hard, but that way i learned obedience and right way, and guess what i went on right way), but it really helped me to tell God my thoughts about Him, and stuff, it is not good to keep your sincere emotions at all.
    So you just keep reading Bible, take it slow, and dont care about any doctorinal theological meaning, because Bible is not a vocabulary of words for men to study that way, it is meaned to represent what man should do to improve life, not what this word means or not.
    Read Jobe as a whole, and you will see passages which are interesting, and those passages you will apply to your life but sincere.

    And, remmember, take it slowly, and work on better relationships.
    Because if you have better relationships and work on them, you will umderstand what Bible says, keep faith to achieve goal and be lovingly as God is.
    And when it says love enemies, it means not to act rude on them, just be calm when they are around and you even can drop a smile, because they will melt, not you.
    Love enemies, help them if they have a need but never be on their side.
    You just act as people would say, with humanity.
     
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  11. It's TIME to STOPPP

    It's TIME to STOPPP Fapstronaut

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    this is why im buddhist :) In buddhism, the main focus is you, it is all about self improving, and buddha is a man, not a god
     
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  12. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Citation?
     
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  13. The Valiant

    The Valiant Fapstronaut

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    My bible teacher.
     
  14. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    So maybe it doesn't say that... I was racking my head when I read your OP, couldn't think of such a saying in the Bible. I could be very wrong, but I'd like to see some proof.
     
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  15. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    I see it as follows.
    God commands us to worship Him.
    He doesn't tell that because Hé needs that, but because He knows wé need that.
    Worshiping a loving and merciful God with all your heart will protect you from worshiping other things/idols. Because your heart and mind will be focused on Him.

    Worshiping idols is what we will experience as punishment.

    Therefor worshiping God is an excellent way to get porn out of your life for example, because porn is a way of worshiping idols.

    God never asks things because He want the bad for us, He just wants the best for us.
     
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  16. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Maybe this would be a good thing to watch. I don't really have the time to respond in full to this right now, but I echo what SuperFan said, and a lot of what i was planning to say can be found in this video.

     
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  17. The Valiant

    The Valiant Fapstronaut

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    He's an adventist so it's probably an adventist thing.
     
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  18. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Could be. I don't know anything about Adventists. Did he quote anything? If not, then don't assume anything about the Bible until you see it for yourself.
     
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  19. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    Nailed it! That's something I've always struggled with, but in the end we are saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ, not any of our own actions. We can never be "good" enough to be saved.
     
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  20. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    Have you ever read a book called atheist delusions by david hart? It's great. Don't have time to watch the documentary right now but the titled reminded me of it.
     
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