HOCD and Escalation, or Denial ?

whatami, brother,

You did some major mistakes in these last 20 days, which "helped" you get where you are right now. I'd like to give you my perspective, if you would like to see a different (and a healthy) point of view.

I must start this reply saying that I fully understand that the decisions you are taking are, and can be, only yours. I may be trying to help you, but ultimately, whatever you decide to believe in, will become your reality.

I am convinced that the addiction is pushing you into wrong beliefs about your true nature and needs as a man. This is so clear to me. The addicted mind is alluring you with the mix of shame+guilt+anxiety+pleasure, which will always give you more boost, more blast of dopamine, which will make you jerk off within a minute, but if you detach from all this BS, you will see how sick this approach of instant gratification is. I'm going to repeat: I've been through everything you are describing in your last and previous posts, with some minor differences in the details of our stories, and I know this path. You may choose to believe those who tell you you are gay in denial, but I'm sure of the opposite. I'M LIVING THE THINGS I'M SHARING WITH YOU.

----------

So, what did you do right and what wrong in my opinion:

In order to do a full reboot, you need at least 90 days of no PMO, no fapping, no sex. You need to cut off the chemical rewards to the brain from reaching O.
You had sex in the 12-th day, which to me resets your counter to 0 right there.

You are exploiting yourself by having sex without being really interested in the person. How can you even have sex without a burning desire to do so? How can you hook up to someone you barely know (if not know at all) and expect to have a satisfying time? Ignoring the need of emotional connection, a long-term relationship with a girl, will always put you in risk, because with the problems you are trying to solve for yourself, the last thing you need is someone who doesn't really care about you, but for their own pleasure and satisfaction.

Your decision to follow such practices, although well-accepted in the modern culture, is not going to end well. More and more people are becoming highly dissatisfied, even though they have abundant sex-lives, just because the main component - a true human-to-human relationship is missing. You can have sex with 10 different girls each night and consider this as a great achievement, but all that is going to happen is: you will totally drain the resources of your body and you'll become ill.

My piece of advice is: cut off everything related to your body below the belt for at least 90 days.

Because you were not going there to meet her; because you were not in love with that girl, the only thing you were thinking was yourself and how you will perform. The lights were on you. Again - when you really like or love someone, you're not thinking about yourself, but you enjoy the thought that you're going to meet that person. You are thrilled and excited that you will be able to talk, look in her eyes, touch her, hug her, smell her, blend with her. You're surely not thinking about your dick and if it's going to make it or not. All that comes secondary. The whole perspective is turned upside down. You say: first comes the sex, then (maybe) comes something more. I say: first comes liking, interest, love and sex comes as a natural consequence of all that.

The thoughts about you being gay are killing you. There is NOTHING healthy in these thought, nothing! Friend, listen to me, if you were gay, you would be happy that you have discovered that and you would feel good and PEACEFUL with that thought. Your problem would be how to get over the fear of telling the others that you are gay without being rejected, but not as in your case: anxiety and resistance to this idea as it bring disturbance and disgust in your being. It's not you speaking these words, but the addiction in you. Your own mind playing tricks on you and since you still can't rise above your own thoughts, you get caught up in all that BS.

I want to congratulate you on that decision! Thanks goodness you didn't take the drug, because this would be so bad for you! It is bad enough to go through all you are going through, but reaching for the modern substances can take you at a place where not me, or a professional can help you.

I know stories of people, who were so deluded about themselves, that they took the path to bio-, chemically and physically feminize themselves, and when they finally reached the point of sanity and clear head, the going back was impossible! That is such a huge tragedy. So, please, no substances!

I'm not amazed you got erection, even though not what you wanted. As a hetero- person, that is normal. But you expected to much from yourself, because of the PIED which you've developed due to excessive PMO. Before you complete a full reboot, you should not expect a good performance in real-life situations.

The fact that you opened up and talked about your problem is a huge step! Another thing I'd like to applaud you for! You did not tell the full truth, but you at least opened up and shared this "shameful" issue with someone - that's amazing!

The talking, the sharing paid back in just 45 minutes! You see, the softer you brings the things to, the more natural the interaction will become. "All we need is love" as the song goes... It's true though. We've passed the stage of primitive sex, which animals do and it's time to bring it to whole another level, involving trust, care, kindness and gentleness to what used to be animalistic sex drive.

And then, your fears, your fearful THOUGHTS brought you the problems. If you didn't come up with thought whether you'll be able to do it or not, and just did it, you would have no problem. But you were thinking excessively, you were letting these intrusive thoughts that you carry from your past, to interfere with the reality of what you were experiencing right there. You were not present.

Sounds good to me. Sounds like you are making progress. These 12 days no PMO+the talk that you had with the girl+already having occasional moments of clarity= you got some promising results...

...and then your mind kicked back harder than before:

See, the ride is not going to be smooth. We all know that. There will be downs as low, as the high of the heights. The more you rise in your consciousness and willpower to overcome the addiction, the stronger will the pull back become... until you reach the point of breaking with the whole thing and embracing the freedom (at least that is my experience).

As I said in the beginning of this post, you need to find those people, who you would you like to put your trust in. I can help you get out of this mess, but if you feel like you want to listen to some other guys who will tell you something totally opposite to what I'm saying, the choice is always yours!

I reckon that it's not really you, who would like to believe that other person, who found out he was gay, but it's the addicted mind of yours, who is extracting pleasure by the enslaving thought of you being gay. This thought will always keep you in this prison and will use you, use your energy, your masculinity, your life. It will try to destroy you, brother.

The fact that you read my story, you identify with it and you invited me to comment on your topic, speaks enough that you need the information that will uplift you, not bring you further down into hell. That's why I'm here!

Of course, you would stop finding natural sexuality as attractive as you find stronger triggers. Try to follow the path of a heroin addict for a minute - always from less harmful and more accepted towards harsher and more dangerous and forbidden substances, while the doses are rising and rising, and the light drugs become irrelevant; can't bring the same effect to the system. Can't you see the pattern? PMO is nothing more than addiction, but the drug is inside you; you can't see it; it's a bio-chemical reaction that we are abusing.

Sure, you got that right. But you need to add everything else we talked about already, which happened in your past. Like... EVERYTHING.

---------

I risk to repeat myself too many times, if I continue to comment on the rest of your last reply. Only briefly, I can say that you are abusing yourself, you are using your thoughts (which are not really yours, but you've adopted from your surrounding over the years) against you. Comparing how hetero- and homosexual content affects your brain circuits is not the wise decision at the moment. You are wired to wrong habits, which will exploit your energy until you finally decide to break up with all that.
You will fall ever more deeper into the hell-like state, not only in your mind, but in your life, at work, in your relationships with your friends and family, because this is how the addiction works. This is the way it goes.

Friend, I'm not BS-ing you. I've been through all that and imagine how your day goes. I still remember (how can I forget). But there's a way out! Trust me!!!

Todor

 

You just have an advanced sex addiction man. Plain and simple.

I've been there too you know, making profiles on gay dating sites and deleting them afterwards. That alone shows it's an artificial sexual taste you've developed. It's the kick you're getting from these fantasies that makes them so powerful. What's fueling your imagination there really is the novelty aspect, as a sort of forbidden fruit. But what you don't seem to get is that just because you are having these fantasies, doesn't mean you'd want to have sex with a guy in real life. Porn and fantasy are extremely suggestive. But rest assured that if you're really straight you would not like the male energy the moment a naked guy would be standing in front of you. That is the difference between porn and reality, porn can twist the innate orientation in your fantasies, reality can't.
Your brain is just making the wrong associations man. Some part of your brain mistakenly thinks that male genitals are pleasurable and fun. This is 100% because of porn and fantasy.
That brings us to masturbation itself, which, when you think about it, in essence is a homosexual act. Having sex with oneself will inevitably lead to your energy turning inwards, where it will cause all of the obsessions you are describing. It really is the masturbation that is fueling the h-ocd.
It took me a year of abstinence to figure all of this out. When I was still consciously masturbating, like you, I'd get waking fantasies about men, most of the time about men I'd think of as superior to myself, the muscular type, eventually developed a fetish for blacks. In that year however, all of my wet dreams have been about girls. It took me a year of monk mode to put 2 and 2 together. I'm willing to bet you are exactly the same. Your innate orientation is straight, if it weren't you wouldn't have had sex with a girl literally days ago. You're bi at most but you aren't that either. All of this arousal it's all fear-based, one feeding the other.
You know what to do to get rid of the h-ocd... It's possibly going to be the most difficult thing you'll ever go through, it's going to make you curse porn and wish it never existed, but it's going to take that sacrifice. You can't have the best of both worlds man. These fetishes, they're your drug of choice. That's what they are. They don't mean anything about your true self, but some part of your brain just gets a kick out of them, that's all.
Anyway hope it helps. Let us know what you think.
Take care.

 

I cannot see that. How can you say solo masturbation is, in essence, a homosexual act?

 

Damn, man! You just nailed it!!! I don't think it's possible to say it better than you did, really! Words of wisdom!!! I thank you!

 

I think it makes perfect sense, because you are touching the object that you see on the screen as you watch P (or fantasize about) and MO. You are mixing the sensation of touching your own penis with the pleasure of your penis being touched. So, the signals to the brain are: penis=pleasure.

 

I've come to look at sex as an exchange of energy. In the case of masturbation there's no mutual exchange. Imo what happens in the case of solo sex is your own energy becoming stuck somehow, which will feed obsessive behavior.
Btw no offense to anyone who's actually gay or bi, all due respect, just trying to help OP out!
Take care

 

Yes, I understand that mate.

I see what you mean. However, describing masturbation as a homosexual act seems to be saying something different to that. Anyway, it is all just opinions.

 

Join the groups "Recovering from Sissy Porn" and "Confused Sexualities". Check out the posts. There are people like you who have recovered

 

Hello guys,

I am new to this forum and I never thought I would write some stuff here, but it is bad. I am almost 25 and I have been suffering from sexuality doubt for 1,5-2 years now. I am not sure if I can post it here, but I just want to know what you guys think, since I recognise a lot of these problems. So, I will try to briefly tell my story and hope you can help me out with tips etc.

I have been heterosexual for all my life. I always focussed on girls from primary school on. I even asked if I could go under my parents friend shirt to sleep on her titties (lol). This all went on like a 'normal' heterosexual person. When I started to watch porn (12-13) I already intensified the PMO behaviour to doing it almost every day, multiple times a day. While still getting of to normal porn, I also started to explore, lesbian, transsexual and gay porn. The extreme thought of people wanting this kind of sex while it must be unpleasant, and the taboo around it made them a real turn on. However, everytime after I finished I found it very disgusting. I never doubted my sexuality then, I just though I was heterosexual how sometimes liked to watch other porn.
In real life I still only focussed and was attracted to women. The more extreme porn-use calmed down when I was 16 and got my first girlfriend (when I was 17). After this relationship (3 years) I dated another girl for 1 year and never had any problems with sex or erections, life was good and I had sex multiple times a day.

Fast forwarding after this introduction, 3 years ago I encountered less women because of the current social networks I had (science study so only guys), I was a bit depressed. Still no trouble with my sexuality. However, in this period, my porn-use spiked again and I would find myself performing the same cycle as to the time I was 12: PMO multiple times a day, moving from straight->trans->gay porn. Only now I started to question my actions.

This escalated when I was on holiday with my parents and a friend, and all of us went to a party. My friend and I were invited by some girls to dance at the traditional party in the village. However, these girls were 15-17 so we declined, although they were to be good looking for sure. Then my stepdad shooted: 'ha, you guys are gay. You dont even go to dance with these nice girls!'
This is were it all started. Usually this would not be a problem for me and I would see it as a joke. However, this time it triggered something terrible. Starting from that point on, I wanted to prove that I was heterosexual. I started to point out hot women in a unnatural forced way. I started to focus on hot women to see if I felt attractive. It scared me when I found out that I did not feel a thing! The next few days were terrible, I started to check my body language, the way I spoke and looked, but also other men to see if I felt attracted to them. Not just certain men, all of them. All of this was uncontrolled and just in effort to calm myself. It filled over 85% of my day, never having any rest from it. I would turn anxious by hearing the words gay/homo and the related jokes. This was never a problem before. The period between 1.5-0.5 years ago was the most fucked-up one. I did a lot of checking and proving. Everytime I would not feel any attraction to a hot women I would mentally collabse, thinking I must be gay. Everytime I would PMO to gay porn it was more pleasing than to normal porn, causing a mental collabse, and prove that indeed I turned gay.

Since a couple of months I have a girlfriend, but all these doubts really affect my sex life. Although we have sex very often. I focus a lot on getting an erections, making it a 60-80% one instead of a usual 100% one. I am focussing on stuff like, do we have enough sex, does she thinks I am manly etc. This type of sex is really different compared to the sex I had before this all started.
When my mind is clear I feel that I really love my girlfriend, but in hard periods I even start to see it as something I did to prove that I am not gay.

Lately I am doing better, because I accepted the new situation, but the thoughts are always there. Quite often I aim very anxious because I watch gay porn and PMO on it. Also quite often, I still check myself when I see other guys and check myself for any response etc. I really don't know if I am turning gay (I never felt any attraction towards guys). But I am anxious because of the gay porn and some fantasies I have related to that.. I have read some stuff about extreme porn induced HOCD, and I really hope that is the case, because then I can start recovery, I don't want to be gay, I have never been that, but now I don't know.

What do you guys think? Anyone with the same experience?

Sorry for the long post, but I feel it is time for action and I want to clear my mind to enjoy my life again.

Cheers,

 

Masterindoubt, hello and welcome to the forum! I hope you find the answers and support you need on this platform and you are soon gone, only leaving your successful experiences for the others to come!

Quick facts for you:
1. You're heterosexual
2. You've been messed up by excessive use of P at early age (12-13) and especially important to point out: hard P genres!
3. The expression of what got messed up in you by the hard P genres went latent until you faced some difficult times:
- lack of social interaction with girls (some sort of depression because of that);
- return to behavior of watching P from many years ago (12-13), which was a sort of looking for a way to be happy and fill the void of lacking the social environment that you needed;
- after taking the road of ever harder P genres and starting questioning your true sexual identification, the last thing that pushed you off of the cliff was the words of your stepfather: "ha, you guys are gay...". //I don't know how much trust and respect you have for you stepdad, but the figure of the father is so very important for the child/adolescent person, especially the male ones. Maybe you've read my comment where I'm talking specifically about that. If not, look it up again under this thread//

Well, the main focus for me at this point stops up to here and this question - what did that comment trigger and where is it all coming from? The more time you spend on that question, the better you'll understand your entire life, that's my opinion.

The rest of your story is something that is reported by so many people, including myself. It's really hard to live like that, I know, and that is the reason you're here - to try to resolve this issue. But my opinion is that the current situation is only so difficult for you, to the extent, to make you look for the true answers that lie back in the past. The discomfort and the pain is trying to bring your attention to what needs to be realized and straightened up.

You've got a lot to read, think and write about. Maybe you'd want to start your own thread and post a link here. Feel invited to contact me on PM. I wish you success in resolving this issue, friend! It's possible! I'm living what I'm talking about.

Todor

 

Thanks for the fast response guys, I really appreciate it. I more or less self-diagonosed myself as someone with HOCD. The only thing that bothers me, is that this is not helping getting rid of it. I know its there, but it doesn't change anything. It just feels like I have to re-discover the old me again, by trying to ignore all anxieties during everyday life.

@Todor , my stepdad is very high in my rankings and I for some cases I would go to him for advice even over my own dad (with whom I have a good relationship). I think thats why his comment was 'started' it all. I will start reading your tread on this! Thanks for the help, again, I really appreciate it.


@Risitas67 ,

This is something I also experienced already and I was so pleased to feel something positive again. Another thing that does help for me is being hangover. Than my mind is so relaxed and the anxiety stays away. Then, sex with my girlfriend is close to the sex I had before all this started. Of course, this is not a good solution and I am not hangover that many times (especially now that this thing makes me fear social events like party stuff). But it gave me some hope that recovery is possible.

I will start to read a lot of other treads, and start a nofap no porn period. However, sex with my girlfriend is something I will not skip. Hopefully it will be as enjoyable as it was >3 years ago. For now I want to thank you a lot guys for the help.

Cheers,