Horny right now. Some thoughts what would stop me from relapsing right now

It's kind of hard to do something without desiring the fruit of that action. But it could be the solution actually because then, you could completely eliminate any kind of frustration as you have a completely different mindset in the first place. It would also make addictions useless as you do these activities here specifically for the course of getting the fruit of that activity (physical pleasure and ecstasy)

I'm gonna think about it, this sounds very interesting

 

"Watch Hentai, it's art, so it doesn't count"

It does count. It's art, but I still would feel frustrated afterwards that I can't live out what I've seen in those hentai movies in real life. Or watch them together with someone. Etc

 

The thing with Allen Carr’s method is that it works once. After you relapse, it is extremely hard to apply the precepts again. That’s why his EasyWay clinics have a fifty percent retention rate after a year.

 

True. This is so super important. Right now, especially at midnight, it's hard for me (emotionally) to concentrate on the bigger picture. I know, it's there, and that I must focus. The key is to be in this state of "enlightenment" all the time (the state, where you know how much bullshit PMO is, and what consequences it bears).

We just have to remember, that PMO is like getting 500 USD for free, and then having to pay 700 USD once your PMO session is over, leaving you with a net total of -200 USD. So you feel frustrated that you're in debt, so you think: Let's do another PMO session! You got 500 USD, so you got 300 USD. But after this session, you again have to pay 700 USD, so you got -400 USD already. So you think "I'm gonna do PMO with more extreme porn". You got 800 USD as it's more extreme porn, so it's 400 USD on you bank account. But then, after this session, you got to pay 1500 USD as it's more extreme porn: You got -1100 USD.

That's the nature of sexual fantasy, masturbation, porn, prostitutes, living out fetishes with doms or on your own. Basically the nature of anything sexual without love. You just have to stop this self sabotage, and wait for your next pay check to be able to pay your debts (this is the time we're rebooting, in flatline, whatever).

It's so obvious, but our stupid minds only see the 500 dollars we get for free, but not the 700 dollars we need to pay afterwards.

It would be additionally helpful to know, why those 500 dollars we get for free are so much desirable that we don't mind the 700 dollars we need to pay afterwards.

I know, the answer is: DOPAMINE. But guys, we've all been reading about this for like forever. What I mean here are the psychological mechanisms behind it. Why we are short sighted in the moment of urges, how does our horny mind rationalize this idiocy?

Maybe, because "it feels good", and the consequences don't matter, as you could die right after "finishing"?

See, our only biological purpose here is to reproduce. And if we PMO, our animalistic brain thinks that we actually have put our seeds into a woman. So, maybe it's an evolutionary response, because for the brain, the accomplishment of inseminating a woman overweighs the post-nut frustration, because you can theoretically die at any moment, so it's better to do "your job" before dying. Thus these 500 dollars seem worth the effort, because they can be your last 500 dollars, as you could die just before paying those 700 dollars back

This seems reasonable for me. This would also explain that "feeling on missing out" which some people might experience. Maybe this is just our biological clock ticking (which is strange, as theoretically an 80 year old can become a father).

Maybe that's why we're drawn towards Hedonism. Because "we could die tomorrow", we do the most impossible stuff like eating shit, fornicating, doing drugs.

So here, the evil thought would be: "Just PMO, you can die at any moment, so go better enjoy it and risk the post-nut frustration"

Basically, we need to remind ourselves that we will not die tomorrow with a probability of 99.9999%. Second: If we really could die at any time, we would probably already be too weak to PMO, do drugs and such. So, this is just not a realistic argument. It's an argument our biology has to offer, that you have to "spread your seeds" before dying, and that your animalistic brain doesn't differ between PMO and inseminating a woman. That those 500 dollars are worth the effort despite the 700 dollars post-nut loss, because "you could die right after ejaculation" and "you need to spread your seed, duuude!".

Summary

I will not think about those porn stars, female friends I know, women I see on the street and find attractive, because it's pointless, I will never get them anyway. I'm just tormenting myself. The only thing it would be doing is to increase my envy and frustration, so I will not fantasize about them.

There is also no need to think about the sexual things I could do on my own or with the use of money, because they will just leave me more frustrated than before, because I'm gonna be "more hungry for the real deal".

I don't allow myself to be content with just fapping to those women, or similar activities, because it would be brainwashing myself to feel satisfied about something I actually don't feel satisfied about.

Despite our biology giving us the task of inseminating as many women as possible, we should not use it as an argument to PMO and get that post-nut frustration, as that argument is build upon the basically zero per cent probability of us dying very soon. We will not die tomorrow, but wake up and feel that post-nut frustration. Once we could actually die tomorrow, we will already feel too weak to even think about PMOing.

 

The notion of having to reproduce, although an imperative, is really just an opinion at the end of the day. It is the opinion of nature that we absolutely need to propagate ourselves to the next generation, and it is up to us whether we should accept it.

 

I'm rather talking about the need to reproduce as our sole biological purpose on this planet. All living things have just one purpose really: To reproduce.

Everyone can decide what they want, but you can't just shut down your biological instincts. I also can tell myself that I won't be scared of the Scary Maze game, but I will still get scared by that jumpscare, as it's my biological instinct to "jump".

So I wouldn't say it's an opinion that we absolutely need to propagate ourselves. It's just our biological instinct, because reproduction is the only biological purpose of our existence. That's why we have a sex drive in the first place (unless you're asexual).

At least for me, it makes sense, because why else should I be attracted to those 500 dollars despite having to pay back 700 dollars later? Why else should I be attracted to PMO, while knowing that I will end up more frustrated afterwards? For me personally, of course if you don't feel like that it's ok, but for me personally, it's because my biological reproduction instincts are kicking in, telling me it's better to spread your seeds (animalistic brain doesn't differ between PMO and real sex) now and risk getting post-fap frustration, as you could die at any moment, thus failing your mission to reproduce.

 

I rather imagined that when you start your PMO session, you get 500 dollars, and then right after you finish, you have to pay 700 dollars. So there is no time to spend it.

The appeal of these 500 dollars is in my analogy the pleasure you get from PMO.

We don't think like that about Heroin because it's not our biological instinct to do heroin. So we obviously will see (if we are not addicted) that the total net sum will be negative, extremely negative

 

I kinda see what you mean, I just wanted to find an analogy where you are given 500 dollars, but before you can start spending it on anything, you must may back 700 dollars.

The initial 500 dollars is the pleasure of PMOing, and having a net sum of - 200 dollars afterwards is being left more frustrated after PMOing

 

That's so depressing because it's true

 

I think I've stumbled across another problem: The frustration of having to remind yourself that PMO just leads to frustration.

Frustration in the likes of "Ohh, daaang, that sucks, because I thought PMO is fun!". Frustration because of being disappointed that your favorite "drug" of choice is just a sexual frustration generator.

I kind of feel like when I was a kid. "Daaaaad, I want this toy, I saw it on TV, it's so cool, you can..." Dad: "It's garbage, they will rip you off and the toy will break very fast. I've read multiple accounts online about this toy". Me: "Ohhh, daaang, that sucks, I thought this toy will be cool!"

Now I'm very tired and will go to sleep, but that's what I've recognized is another thing we should work on. Because right now it's like that:

Let's say I watch The Big Bang Theory, and I see Bernadette (which I find very attractive), and every time I see her I must consciously remember myself that "Don't even think about her, you will never get to sleep with Melissa Rauch (the actress), let alone meet her, thinking about this will only make you feel even more sexually frustrated that you can't have your own "Bernadette" right now next to you".

And if I have to do this like 7 or 8 times a day (because I see women on the street, or think about women I find attractive, or some old porn scenes pop up in my head), it will keep me from relapsing but it is also frustrating itself, because you are "disappointing yourself" over and over again, just like in that toy example where the child is disappointed after dad told him that the toy he wants sucks.

You could avoid triggers, true, but nevertheless, you can't escape from your mind, your mind is always there with you, potentially reminding you of women you find attractive and porn scenes you've seen and fapped to.

Any ideas what we could do here?

 

I won't relapse, hell no, it would change nothing

I just say that I start to feel pissed because I have to constantly remind myself that PMO, fantasizing and fetishes are not rewarding but in fact self destructing

Maybe it's because it's a tough pill to swallow that "How can something which feels so good be such a bad thing". It is, I see it, I don't believe it but know it, but it's a hard reality to accept.

I would need something which could tell me "Yeah, those fantasies and thoughts popping up in your head will just lead to more frustration, but you don't have to feel sad about the harsh reality of PMO, because there are other things which feel good and will not lead to frustration and are no kind of self torture"

Another approach would be a more stoic/Buddhist one: Just don't fight the feeling of disappointment, and try to "ignore" it by not engaging in it.

I hope it's clear what I mean here. By no means will I relapse, it's just that it's a harsh reality to accept that PMO is a rotten fruit which will bring you frustration.

 

Alright, I think I've found the solution to that problem

Realize, that we do not think about drugs at all, we don't even think about cigarettes if we are not addicted to them.

We don't go on with our life thinking "I'm frustrated that heroin, something which feels amazing, will fuck you up ultimately".

Also, we don't have to "remind" ourselves 8 times a day that heroin sucks. You could argue, that it's because we are not triggered by heroin in the same way as by PMO. We don't get "heroin" thoughts out of nowhere just like we get sexual thoughts out of nowhere popping up in our heads. We are not tempted by heroin just like we are temped by PMO.

But let's say you're not a smoker, and your best buddy smokes. You see him smoking let's say 8 times a day. So although you are confronted with cigarettes, you still don't have to remind yourself that smoking - although it gives you initially a buzz - just sucks and will kill you.

What I'm saying is that the next step for fapstronauts - once they have found a powerful reason to stop PMOing - is to "unbrainwash" yourself by starting to treat and really feel about PMO the same way you feel about heroin, so all these thoughts will stop popping up and nothing will trigger you anymore.

Maybe we should just visualize PMO as a chemical drug. I mean, P M O already sounds like a chemical abbreviation like MDMA or LSD.

Another thought I have is that we, unless we are asexual, cannot deny the fact that some women just will look attractive. But what we can and should try to change is connecting finding a woman attractive with PMO.

I mean, imagine you've never discovered PMO, and didn't actually know what sexuality is all about. How would you react to a woman who you think looks nice?

What are your thoughts on this? I need some other ideas and approaches.

Tl;dr: Although I have a powerful enough reason to stop PMOing (I'm 2 weeks clean right now), I still feel frustrated about the fact that I have to constantly remind myself - whenever I meet a trigger or sudden sexual thought - that PMOing sucks and why I shouldn't do it, because it is a harsh reality to accept and tough pill to swallow, that something so good feeling is in the end just self destructing. The thing is, that we don't think like that about heroin or other drugs. We don't have to remind ourselves that heroin sucks, and also don't have any triggers or sudden heroin thoughts. So in order to stop this, we should start treating PMO as a chemical drug where PMO is a chemical abbreviation just like MDMA or LSD. We also should try to imagine how we would feel like - if we'd have never discovered PMO - when meeting an attractive woman, as it's important to burn down the bridge in our heads connecting PMO with attractive women.