How much sex is too much?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Aryangor, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. This post is born out of some talks with my friends and other men here on NoFap...

    The more I speak with men who have casual sex, the more I am feeling that there is something wrong with that. I can't speak of my own experience as I am still a virgin. But this is what I have noticed:

    - Guys who have lots of girls try to avoid any romantic engagement or emotional intimacy with women;
    - They break up with their gf's at the first sign of conflict, friction or disagreement
    - They sometimes have more than one woman and lie to all their gf's, telling them each one is the only one
    - The guys step over some boundaries and go into having casual sexual relations with married women and with mothers of young kids. Often such women would come to them themselves because they are looking for a way to escape the emotional stress at home. Well, the men are not shy to use that to their advantage.
    - When I would ask them some questions about settling down, about being more responsible, about being more emotionally involved and even more monogamous, I would either hear:
    --- that its OK the way it is now and that I am being too serious or too religious, coz a young man must enjoy life and basically sleep around as much as he can, OR
    --- that they are so caught up in this mess of emotionless sex and casual lifestyle, but that they cant give up on it coz it would hurt too much/ too difficult/ no point in giving up... Some are even admitting that they realize they are emotionally needy after a woman and yet they choose to avoid doing something after acknowledging the problem.

    --------------

    My first thoughts is comparing the above observations with a plain PMO addiction. What I hear between the lines is a denial of a helpless position and lack of self-control. If a guy watches too much porn, he loses regard for the humanity of the porn models and begins to objectify women. I believe the same happens when there is abundant casual sex as I described above.

    I don't think our brain can handle such intense sexual stimulation without going through some heavy long-term effects and changes - away from sensitivity. Emotional memory is very strongly stimulated during orgasm - so if one does not preserve it, then it is simply filled up and worn out and there is nothing left to give, but only to take.

    So basically I am in a need of a little brainstorming here.... help me out anyone? :) I am open to hear what you all have to say. Below are some of the points you might consider while answering or sharing.

    o Which of you support casual sex and why?
    o To what extend would you say sex is OK with multiple partners?
    o What would you allow yourself now in casual sexual relationships that you would not allow yourself a couple of years ago and why did that change?
    o If you are or were caught up in such vicious casual sex cycle, do you consider it an addiction or just something normal?
    o If you were in an unwanted casual sex cycle, what are some ways someone could be of support and help to you, that you would suggest and appreciate?

    Thank you and stay strong everyone!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
    lgustavoms likes this.
  2. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    1. Not me, not anymore. It leaves too much of a burden on my "soul" (that section of my mind responsible for long-term, timeless even ambitions)
    2. I wouldn't mind my cat running around on bed when doing it with my wife.
    3. ---
    4. I would consider it conflicting with my long-term ambitions, but by that time I would have probably forgot about the ambitions for the sake of short-term pleasures: until it paid off again
    5. I would ask him to be my friend and provide spiritual support by just being there when I need him, but for that he would have to be somewhat compatible characterologically. There are so many better things to do in life than just having sex...
     
  3. vlaw

    vlaw Banned

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    Don't know but when I have too much sex in south east Asian...I always have the symptoms of too much PMO. Go figure!
     
  4. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    1. It's not my business to support it or not, but I don't recommend it as a lifestyle choice. If you're lonely, casual sex can make you feel lonelier. Paradoxical isn't it? If you're feeling super-duper about having lots of sex without emotional ties, you're probably hurting others without noticing it. Emotions are involved in sex. It can't be helped. Sometimes people are surprised by their own feelings. Someone can tell a casual partner that everything is okay, when privately they're not okay at all. You wouldn't know what harm was done unless you were close friends with that person.

    2. Hm. Multiple partners. Well, it's all fun and games until an STD outbreak rolls around. Then what. Some infections lie dormant and then come back to bite you later in life. Yuck. Fewer partners means lower risk for everyone. That may sound a little preachy, but it's true.

    3. ??? Not sure. I speak my mind more. I care less about what other people think, probably because more and more adults I meet were born during years I remember well. (WTF, 1990? That was like, 10 years ago. No wait...)

    4. Having lots of casual sex does seem to be culturally sanctioned these days, but I don't think it's normal. Neither do I think it's an addiction in most people's cases, it's just a matter of choosing what's easy over what's hard. Healthy relationships take effort and attention to build, and the payoff doesn't happen right away. Plus, you have to find someone willing to build that with you, so you risk being hurt, badly, if you pour out your heart to someone and they crush it.

    Another way of looking at it, keeping relationships casual can be a practical thing. Young people are horny, okay, but today it's hard to settle into adulthood until what, 26? Sometimes later? A long-term relationship can be a drag in the meantime, if you need to move to a new city for work/school, if sometimes you work 24/7 but sometimes you're unemployed and dependent on others. It's stressful. I know people who have moved cross-country to follow a boyfriend/girlfriend to a new place, only to regret it bitterly when the relationship ended. It can be difficult to pick up the pieces and get back to a healthy place. Being young and penniless makes everything harder. So it's not just emotional heartbreak at risk when you seek a stable relationship before you have a stable and independent life.

    All of this isn't an excuse, it's just that, I understand seeking intimacy (everyone needs it), and casual sex provides that feeling of intimacy, though not emotional fulfillment. And I understand avoiding commitments until you can afford to keep them. So, early in life, celibacy would seem to be called for, but obviously not everyone is up to that challenge. It's not good, I just understand is all.

    5. Honestly, I don't think there's much you can do to help beyond just being a good friend in general. Listen, don't judge too harshly, and help the person figure things out for him/herself. You can't push someone into making better choices. They have to want it themselves. Change comes from within. Sure, if a friend is doing something really stupid you should probably tap them on the shoulder about it, but other than that, the best you can do is to live up to your own standards and be nice. When people ask you how you've got it together, tell them, but don't drone on about it. Just being there for someone when they need you is invaluable.
     
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  5. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    o Which of you support casual sex and why?
    If you mean "casual", as in, casual engagements between a husband and wife, I totally support it - lovemaking doesn't have to be this uber-romantic thing all the time. If by "casual" you mean sex outside of a marriage, then I think it's a Very Bad Idea. Yeah, some of you may label me a religious prude for that statement (don't care, kupo), but I have made some pretty solid observations over the years that support my perspective. Sex was designed to deepen intimacy between a sacred couple. It was designed to be awesome and pure, but these days people want to eat the icing without the cake, and they're getting sick on it.

    o To what extend would you say sex is OK with multiple partners?
    On so many levels (and only one of them personal convictions), I would also say that this is a VERY bad idea. Yeah, other people are all, "Dude, if that floats your boat, do it." Screw that. Besides the obvious casual nature of that kind of sex, it's going to introduce all levels of chaos in and out of the bedroom. You don't need that.

    o If you are or were caught up in such vicious casual sex cycle, do you consider it an addiction or just something normal?
    Even when I've broken down and slept with women outside of marriage, I've never done it casually. I have known men and women that do it. An unhealthy sexual perspective and lifestyle usually springs out of a broken family, poor parenting, or some sort of trauma/abuse. People who chase sex rampantly are trying to fill a void. It's much like a pursuit of pornography, actually: you're trying to satisfy a need that can only be satisfied by real love and intimacy, and you're trying to do it by bombarding yourself with as much of the erotic overload as possible.

    o If you were in an unwanted casual sex cycle, what are some ways someone could be of support and help to you, that you would suggest and appreciate?
    I think I'd approach it like an addiction to pornography. In order to break the cycle, I'd have to see the destructive cycle for what it really was, and realize the damage I was doing to myself and the people around me.
     
  6. Kedvesem

    Kedvesem Fapstronaut

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    o Which of you support casual sex and why?
    I do not. I have seen the devastation it can wreak on those who practice it.

    o To what extend would you say sex is OK with multiple partners?
    I do not share my beloved. He is mine and mine alone. The same goes double for me. I am his and his only. He ... would not take kindly to anyone else partaking of my body.

    o What would you allow yourself now in casual sexual relationships that you would not allow yourself a couple of years ago and why did that change?
    I never participated in casual sex and was willing to forgo relationships where my partner would require it. I gave my maidenhead to my husband, and he is the only lover I have ever had. I do not regret that, nor would I change it.

    o If you are or were caught up in such vicious casual sex cycle, do you consider it an addiction or just something normal?
    It is normal insofar as it is common. It is, indeed, vicious, and its repercussions are harsh. Whether it reaches the level of addiction or not probably depends on the participant, but it is never good.

    o If you were in an unwanted casual sex cycle, what are some ways someone could be of support and help to you, that you would suggest and appreciate?
    Unfortunately, I cannot think of anything that someone caught up in this cycle would actually appreciate hearing. No one likes to hear that what he is doing is wrong/bad/hurtful/dangerous. If someone doing this were to ask me for help, that would be different. In that case I would recommend an accountability partner, actually.
     
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  7. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Yup. This is spot on. There's a hunger, you feed it with the wrong thing, you're back to square one and the cycle repeats.
    Those who have never known anything else don't comprehend how or why to break the cycle.
    It takes a powerful loving connection to show that there's a better way.
     
  8. Kedvesem

    Kedvesem Fapstronaut

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    This is quite right. It is why I don't think that, generally speaking, it is helpful to explain to those in this cycle that what they are doing is bad. They don't even comprehend that there could be another way.
     
  9. Thanks for your post, man, was very insightful!

    Could you please comment more on what you meant here? You are speaking of sexual engagements that you went through, which are different from the casual way. Please explain this.

    Tx.
     
  10. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    Not a problem.

    Though it was still wrong of me, I have never slept with a woman on a whim. To me, there was much in the way of emotional and personal attachment. I greatly loved the women that I shared my bed with, to the point where I was convinced (at the time) that we were destined to be married at some point. I never allowed myself to let sex be casual in the sense that I was uncommitted and promiscuous.

    Even then, I still encounter where I stand right now: a certain brokenness. I realize that even though I have a wonderful, understanding, selfless girlfriend who is dedicated to picking up the pieces - a rare find - I have not honored her with my life and my body over the years, but instead have spent myself frivolously. This is a deep blow to my heart, as I truly often wonder if I'll be able to give her a whole heart and not just glued-together bits and pieces. I cannot fathom how much worse it would be if I'd engaged in casual sex with numerous partners.
     
  11. Thank you very much, Weiland! I appreciate your humility and honesty - and I believe that what you shared here is going to help other guys as well.
     
  12. Thanks guys, for all your replies! They are invaluable, because they are all a unique life experience and perception.

    I also would still like to hear some of you who are pro-casual sex. If you are a man who feels that the benefits of such open-ended sexual relationship with little or no commitment outweigh its negative aspects, do comment here!
     
  13. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Aww, that's a shame you did something yesterday mate. What happened?
     
  14. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    I honestly can't imagine anyone could truly be for it around here. Most of the men came to this place because they'd realized what kind of destruction pornography has created in their lives and wanted out. When you build on that realization with the understanding that pornography is just one arm of the beast, you start to see those destructive lifestyles for what they are.

    As a military guy, I've of course known plenty of testosterone-pumped boys with the philosophy of "G.I. Joes, Bangin' Hoes" - clubbing, partying, hammering chicks at random when the opportunity allowed, and patting each other on the back for their conquests. They'd be the first to tell you, "Hey, man, get as much pussy as you can!" A lot of young adult men think that way these days. Some grow out of it before it eats them alive; others turn to drugs, drinking, and pornography. Often, there's a stubborn refusal to admit any weakness on principle.
     
  15. This is what I am worried about - and is one of the main reasons I began this conversation. I begin to suspect more and more that there is more to this casual sex thing than meets the eye, and that it might not be only about YOLO and living the best life you can etc... There must be more to this, some driving force which makes men run after every skirt they see.

    Surprizingly enough, not one man I spoke to so far denied wanting to settle down some time in his future, having a wife and kids. So somehow an average Joe just does not believe that a loose lifestyle will have any influence on his future family.

    The trick now is how to get to them...
     
  16. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    “You can't fight a battle you don't think exists.”
    John Eldridge, Wild at Heart

    Have you ever read a book by John Eldgridge entitled Wild at Heart? In the book, Eldridge spends time digging into the identity and drives of men. I think this one particular quote from his book hits the nail on the head:


    “Deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue.”

    Savvy, isn't it? If you search your heart like I've searched mine, this simple blanket statement rings remarkably true. And, when it comes to why men chase after women with such abandon, I think the drive springs forth from that desire for a beauty in their lives. However, the drive has been so perverted that instead of pursuing one woman purely and with the intents of spiriting her away into his life for good, the man instead chases tail in pursuit of he knows not what, and when he doesn't find it, moves on to the next.

    For many men, I think, it probably started out innocently enough. I don't think that every player was a player from the moment they put boots on ground. No father to teach them honor and virtue; no mother to teach them the value of a woman; peers with loose and lustful habits; an early addiction to pornography; heartbreak that shattered personal ideals about women; the almost addictive nature of overtly wielding ones sexuality to attract women; the intoxicating thrill of having a woman submit her body and passion to you. The list goes on as to the potential reasons for a casual sexual lifestyle.

    Anyway, grab yourself a copy of Wild at Heart. It's a great description of the heart and identity of a man. There's a counterpart book he and his wife wrote for women entitled Captivating if you know of any women who might benefit from an improved self-identity, too. I bought that one for my girlfriend and I daresay Morgan cried the entire time she read it.
     
  17. Clumsy

    Clumsy Banned

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    It's a pretty normal that men become evil, in one way or another, when ejaculating too much. That's why they lose their morals, they cheat, lie and hurt people around them. That's why it's so important for men not to ejaculate too much, before age 16 I would say that even one orgasm is dangerous.

    Ideally it is to wait with having sex to atleast 16 years of age, no masturbation is ever needed. Ejaculation 2-3 times a month is definitely ok.
     
  18. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    This makes me imagine a bunch of deer bragging about the awesome woodland salt licks they've found. Great job finding the bait guys! Ladies who frequent soldier hangouts do so for a reason. And yet banging them still counts as a "conquest" somehow. Good grief!
     
  19. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    It was still pretty common outside of regular soldier hangouts. Guys would go to the inner city and club/party/etc (especially on long weekends), and when they returned would go on and on about their conquests. If you suggested that what they were doing was wrong in some way, the generally response was laughter and, "Whatever you say, man, but I still got plenty of pussy and you didn't!" As if this was the whole point.

    It's a heart issue. The same thing that causes our kids to shoot up schools and parents to abandon their kids and politicians to cheat and lie is the thing that causes us to lead promiscuous lives: a broken, empty, corrupted heart. If you ever want to solve the symptom, you've got to go for the root of the issue; else, all you will get is laughter and scorn and derision.

    A good metaphor I've made before involves a fortified enemy position in a military setting. Generals don't send in the infantry and armor first because throwing them against fortified, hardened defenses will just reap massive casualties with little to no effect. Send in the air force and soften them up first, though - especially with some laser-guided munitions to their headquarters, for example - and the ground troops will be mopping as the defenses, having been robbed of their foundational support, collapses. Same thing here.
     
  20. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Okay, Weiland, I was with you up until that third paragraph. Who's the air force in that metaphor? Good guys or bad guys? And what's the fortress? The person or their perversion?
     

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