Is masturbation a sin without porn?

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. clarity9

    clarity9 Fapstronaut

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    What do you think Christians? Masturbation without the inclusion of porn. Is it still a sin? Personally I think so but I was having a conversation and he thinks it's not but I was curious to see what others think about this as well.
     
    lytnin88 likes this.
  2. Just examine the motives for doing so.
    I imagine if Jesus caught anyone using the bible as a rule book, and then looking for loopholes to justify their idiocy, he'd probably beat them with a stick...
     
  3. Well, the Bible is silent about the topic, while addressing other sexual issues in detail. Like don't fuck animals. I think masturbation is more frequent than fucking animals, so I wonder why He decided to talk about mating with your favourite pet but do not mention self pleasure.
    On the other hand masturbation doesn't give you anything that you couldn't get from more healthy or godly sources, so while I'm hesitant to call it a sin, I still think it's unnecessary. There are wet dreams, and marriage for sex, also the body can take care of excess sperm in other different ways. Really, no point in it.

    So yeah...don't do it.
     
  4. Interesting point. That actually never occurred to me. I actually assumed that the sin always became addiction... or we'd just lose interest in doing it... but I see the point... thx
     
    Sursum Corda likes this.
  5. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    Since the Bible has been interpreted and written by men with possible hidden motives you have to ask yourself "what would Jesus do"? Would Jesus masturbate at the expense of making love to his spouse? Would Jesus objectify women in his mind while doing it? Would Jesus tend to his own self pleasure before engaging in activities for the betterment of himself and others?

    I think we all know the answers to those questions. Jesus forgives sinners so to wonder if it is a sin or not is not the question but whether or not we are holding ourselves to the standard that Jesus put forth.
     
    Blondewife likes this.
  6. Origen castrated himself to remove sexual temptation. St. Augustine used to go to the coliseum in Hippo to watch gladiators rape women. He was a womanizer and a masturbator. When he found Christianity he fought his sexual demons and won.

    Clement of Alexandria
    "Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted" (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).

    Clement of Alexandria

    "To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature" (ibid. 2:10:95:3).

    Lactantius

    "God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital ['generating'] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for no other purpose than the generation of offspring" (ibid. 6:23:18).

    Epiphanius of Salamis

    "They [certain Egyptian heretics] exercise genital acts, yet prevent the conceiving of children. Not in order to produce offspring, but to satisfy lust, are they eager for corruption" (Medicine Chest Against Heresies 26:5:2 [A.D. 375]).
     
  7. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Your question, "what would Jesus do" is, according to you, based on the 'interpretation and writings of men with possible hidden motives'. Therefore, it is not possible for you to draw any conclusions because, you believe, the Holy Scriptures are flawed and corrupted.
     
    Half Dime and hopefullynotfappin like this.
  8. It depends, IGY, on what "hermeneutic" (interpretative methodology) you use. Like if you use a feminist hermeneutic you would try to see beyond the patriarchal overtones of scripture and see how women are treated. The book "Red Tent" does this. It basically retells the story of Jacob and his sons and daughters through his daughter Dinah. It's what we call a midrash, using your knowledge of scripture to guess about the stories that lie behind those in scripture.
     
    Limeaid likes this.
  9. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    @Sursum Corda @IGY

    I believe that Christ represents higher human consciousness and when we are still within ourselves it speaks to us. For me the Bible represents a small portion of what is available to you in your heart/consciousness. Relaying human consciousness through a book is nearly impossible so yes I believe the Bible to be flawed. Your heart/consciousness will give you the real answer. This is why prayer or meditation is so effective at reaching that available knowledge. When you pray deeply you can access the same consciousness that was available to Jesus. I do believe that Jesus was the son of God but so am I and so are you.

    Just my opinion of course :)
     
    KeenEye and Deleted Account like this.
  10. We are drawing near a famous conundrum in Christian theology. How could Christ be salvific to women if he was a man?

    Because God transcends gender, of course, and God ennobled the human race through the Incarnation. And that ennoblement extended to men, women even animals and all of creation.

    Christ was born a creature that happened to be human and male.
     
    Limeaid likes this.
  11. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    You are a beautiful soul! Love and blessings to you too my brother.
     
    Sursum Corda likes this.
  12. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    I suppose this depends on which flavor of Christianity you subscribe too. While my upbringing is Catholic, and Catholics have a clear view on masturbation, you must also understand that Catholics discern what is sinful or not based on more than just the bible. Thus, for most protestants, while using the Catholic teachings as a guide is a good idea, you must remember that the conclusions of the Catholic church may have been derived from sources you would deem unacceptable.

    This wiki article seems to be a good starting point.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_masturbation

    "Protestantism[edit]
    Theologians toward the middle of the 20th century began revising previous teachings, and some today even take pro-masturbation viewpoints. Some view it as an act of self-indulgence and even a sin of the flesh, and believe that the practice is principally considered a sin because of its invitation to lust.[32] Those who view it within the range of allowable sexual behavior encourage it as guard against adultery, pre-marital sex, or other forms of non-allowable sexual behavior, and as a method of balancing differing libidos between spouses.[33]"

    Personally, I would take a logical approach to your question and I think @Sursum Corda did a decent job of listing out logical reasons to conclude masturbation should be a sin.

     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  13. Kenji

    Kenji Guest

    I'm not Christian but I love this guy and listen to his sermons,

     
    JustADude likes this.
  14. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    Perfect video! I think it does a great job of making a protestant approvable argument that masturbation does not have to be a sin.

    To draw a clear distinction between Mr. Driscoll's beliefs and Catholic doctrine, Catholics doctrine disagrees with almost all of Mr. Driscoll's interpretations of the bible.
     
  15. Kenji

    Kenji Guest

    Ya I had a feeling he was not accepted by everyone, but I love the way he delivers talks and I also like his moral views.
     
  16. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    @Sursum Corda, when I was in high school I attended a very enlightening debate between a Catholic Priest and a Church of Christ preacher. What I found was a new understanding of how most protestants analyze the bible. They work very hard to discern from the bible as literally as possible. The concept of "it isn't in the bible" so it is not a sin is a fundamental difference between Catholics and most Protestants.

    However, I think Mark Driscoll pretty much agrees with your statement...
    I mean, he basically says in the video that most forms of masturbation are sinful.

    Except for the Onanism part. I get the impression that Mark does not believe Onanism is a teaching of the bible. A quick search of the internet will net you bible interpretations that contest Onanism...
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba3.htm
    "One passage, in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), describes the death of Onan. It was a widespread belief that Onan was killed by God because he masturbated. This event was the source of the term "Onanism" -- once used as a synonym for masturbation. But further analysis indicates that he was murdered for the "crime" of using a primitive method of birth control to avoid conceiving a child. The Christian churches have now generally accepted the latter interpretation of this passage. The term Onanism is now rarely used."

    FYI, I find this conversation to be enlightening. I'm searching the internet and catechism for answers to questions and it is enjoyable. Thanks everyone.
     
    Kenji likes this.
  17. IGY

    IGY Guest

    The usage of onanism as a synonym for "masturbation" is incorrect.

    Onan was a little known character from the Bible, killed by God for 'ejaculating his semen on the ground'. Hundreds of years ago, onanism, which means, "masturbation", was introduced into English by the church. On the face of it, it seems that God did, indeed, put Onan to death for masturbation. However, this was not the case.

    The context reveals that Onan was asked to comply with a law of Moses (called brother-in-law marriage). Rather than complying or even declining to do so, he made the pretence of providing a child for his widowed sister-in-law - by having vaginal intercourse with her but withdrew his penis when he was ready for his orgasm - thereby shooting his semen on the ground. This is called coitus interruptus, which is defined as: "the deliberate withdrawal of the penis from the vagina before ejaculation".

    References: Deuteronomy 25:5, 6; Genesis 38:8-10
     
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  18. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    @IGY, I think you miss the point of the quoted text. This text...
    "But further analysis indicates that he was murdered for the "crime" of using a primitive method of birth control to avoid conceiving a child"
    Makes the argument that the act of coitus interruptus was not the sin, but rather, the act of defying god was the sin. Thus, if Onan had chosen to forgo sex altogether, he would still have sinned, and that the coitus interruptus itself should not be considered sinful.

    Don't misunderstand me though. Different Christian denominations will interpret the bible differently. And I find that debating one denomination's interpretation of the bible over another's without also bringing in the tradition and teaching of the early church, to be a waste of time.
     
  19. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    To clarify my previous statement. I DO NOT believe that Mark Driscoll believes that ejaculation outside of the vagina is a sin. And, if you search the internet, you will find many protestant bible interpretations that conclude that ejaculation outside of the vagina is not a sin.
     
  20. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Masturbation is a sin. Condoms are sins. Bottom of the line. Sorry for the people who try to twist the facts to keep perpetrating their sins :)
     

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