MO without P

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by johndoe117, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. johndoe117

    johndoe117 Fapstronaut

    How does MO without P fit into your recovery. In my opinion MO is healthy and normal and not addictive or destructive. The issues come from when P is inseparable from M.

    I think it's also healthy and helpful in a meditative way.

    But how has it effected your recovery?
    Ghost79 and kropo82 like this.
  2. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    I agree with you. I did 2wks Hard Mode, then switched over to Normal mode, then Easy Mode. I had only 1 relapse, but I'm basically cured of all my previous problems. Already had sex almost 3 days in a row without any problems. MO is healthy when it doesn't involve P or fantasizing while doing M. But I would not recommend it for the normal Fapstronaut because when addiction is involved it's hard to control and most wouldn't be able to control it.
    Ghost79, nirav2696 and Romans 6 23 like this.
  3. Unless you're practicing retention, there is nothing wrong with infrequent MO in a healthy context.

    But, being a P addict does not constitute a healthy context. MO up until 20 years ago vs. MO now where almost every guy with an internet connection has strongly associated it with porn are two very different things. For many guys with porn addiction, they will simply not heal if they are Ming frequently. For most guys growing up, MO is synonyms with P and so MO will activate P pathways, preventing recovery.

    Besides MO very likely activating P pathways and preventing, or at best severally impeding recovery for most it comes with other issues:

    - You're probably thinking of a P scene/theme if P is most of your sexual experience
    - It can bring on the 'chaser effect', leading to further craving and relapse
    - It can bring on negative symptoms (brainfog, lethargy)
    - Many report that it impedes progress. In my case a 130 day no P with 1x/week M felt like 40 days of hardmode
  4. Romans 6 23

    Romans 6 23 Fapstronaut

    I'm kind of doing it opposite of @ClaritySeeker not that theres anything wrong with either way.

    I went 35 days in easy mode. masturbated daily, only a couple times went more than 2 days without MO. I reset last Friday and decided it was time to bump it up no P or M.

    I know some people on here are very anti masturbation. I feel for me if I tried to go cold turkey I probably would have failed/given into urges and gone straight back to pmo. It was good for me to retrain my brain to MO without porn. Now if i reset it would just be to mo instead of pmo.

    I think the most important thing is that you set your own goals and parameters and conquer them.
  5. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    Also, even though I'm doing Easy mode (No P), I don't M too frequently, maybe every 1 to 2 weeks, I mostly due it to avoid Blue Balls and that insane horny feeling that is just too much if I haven't released in a while
    EnupDexter and Romans 6 23 like this.
  6. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

    I disagree. I think MO is still quite destructive. Not on the same level of PMO, certainly, but in the end, you're still fantasizing and as such, still objectifying women. Also, it results in a similar effortless dopamine-high - pleasure without working to earn it. That's dangerous and addictive. Sure, it'll take you longer to become addicted, and you'll probably be less addicted than PMO, but it's still harmful.
    again, nirav2696 and md70 like this.
  7. Weidro

    Weidro Fapstronaut

    Yeah dude here is the thing, on my very first streak i read a similar Post like this, on my day 32. And I fapped because of it, without P of course, but two days later, i said to myself: well, you did cum very fast, one more time just to enjoy it for a little bit longer... So my brain found a few more excuses, in the next two weeks i fapped about 5-6 times, also without P. Currently im on my longest streak which is 39 days, and im glad that i learned this lesson. When you want to achieve a longer streak to reset your brain, then i wouldnt recommend it.
    Romans 6 23 likes this.
  8. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

    Mastutbation is abnornal and has no health benefits, only drawbacks, so it has no place.
  9. The Lone Ranger

    The Lone Ranger Fapstronaut

    I did this journey a couple a years ago, actually managed to break loose completely. Then going back to M and didn’t take long for my brain to wander back into old habits, fireing up the old triggers and soon enough I was back in the P swamp for another couple of years. Now I’m back on track and say goodbye to P and M for the rest of my life. Focusing all energy on my SO. Don’t care about the moral issue, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy - for me it’s just not worth it.

    Good luck with your choice!
    md70 and Romans 6 23 like this.
  10. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

  11. Motiv3

    Motiv3 Fapstronaut

    Fuck M
    Prox likes this.
  12. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

    No, it's actually correct. Masturbation is an abnormal and unhealthy behavior. If you think otherwise you can tell me and i'll address it
  13. SpoonDog

    SpoonDog Fapstronaut

    I did 53 days in hard mode and since then have allowed myself to reintroduce MO. One relapse since then. My priority is to stay away from porn, so only time will tell if my approach works or not, but I’m 40 something days porn free. Full recovery is going to take months or years though so we’ll see...
  14. I'd like to hear more. I'm on the fence for this issue.
  15. RollerCoaster

    RollerCoaster Fapstronaut

    The thing is that if your first masturbation was with porn because you started as a teenager and you kept going for ten years, then mo will aaaalways be connected to p in some way, even if you dont actually watch... So in order to heal you should abstain from all of that for some time and some day when you feel better about yourself you can try to bring mo back into your life, but dont do it at the start of your journey. This shows only that you aren't committed enough to the process :p
    md70 likes this.
  16. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    What is your definition of abnormal? To me it's normal, there's nothing abnormal about it. The only abnormal thing about it is now we have high speed internet and that comes with unlimited P, when P and M are mixed together then that becomes an addiction and is abnormal. It's normal because it occurs regularly in nature, animals and humans do it. We've been doing it prior to P as well. Sometimes you need to just get rid of some sexual tension. I'm not saying do it every day, too much is also unhealthy. You got to find the right balance for you.
    It's not unhealthy according to all medical sources. It helps relieve blue balls, there is some conflicting data it may help prevent prostate cancer.
    I'm not saying M is for everyone, but I am going to call you out when you say something completely false: "Mastutbation is abnornal and has no health benefits, only drawbacks, so it has no place."
  17. nirav2696

    nirav2696 Fapstronaut

    You are right brother, infect I experience that right now.
    Hros likes this.
  18. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

    I think there's two problems with MO. One is if you have PIED then MO can slow down PIED recovery. Two MO can make some people return to PMO. But then there is also some guys where MO can actually help keep them away from porn and artificial sexual stimulation.

    But you can still succeed if you occasionally MO, as long as you stay away from porn and artificial sexual stimulation.

    See something I don't get with some guys on this. They're obsessed with no PMO and no MO. But the thing that doesn't make sense to me is many guys on this who are obsessed with no MO are actually stuck in a cycle where they always eventually relapse on PMO, they always eventually go in to a binge on PMO. So within a week they're binging on PMO, within a few weeks they're binging on PMO, within a month they're binging on PMO, within a few months they're binging on PMO.

    I don't understand why guys like this are also heavily focused on no MO if they're stuck in a cycle where they always eventually go in to a PMO binge.

    I think if you have got to a point you're never masturbating to porn or artificial sexual stimulation, then yes at this point maybe you could start putting more focus in to completely stopping MO as well. But why are these guys so focused on not MOing when they always end up PMOing anyway? When they always end up in a PMO binge anyway?

    I think it makes sense to get no PMOing down, in that sequence first, then when these guys have got this down, they're never masturbating to porn and artificial sexual stimulation, then maybe at this point they can start focusing on no MOing at all.

    But like I said many of these guys are so focused on not MOing, yet they are stuck in a cycle where they always end masturbating to porn and artificial sexual stimulation anyway, they always end up eventually binging masturbating to porn and artificial sexual stimulation anyway.

    The only guys I think it makes sense to put a lot of focus in to stopping MOing altogether are the guys who basically have no porn and artificial sexual stimulation down. Or the guys who return to porn and artificial sexual stimulation because of MO.

    But if you don't have no porn and artificial sexual stimulation down, or if MO on it's own doesn't usually make you return to porn and artificial sexual stimulation, Then I think guys like this should put their main focus in to stopping porn and artificial sexual stimulation first. I think guys should put their main focus in to getting that down first.

    Because like I said, there is a lot of guys who are obsessed with not MOing who eventually always end up PMOing anyway, who always end up in a PMO binge anyway. They're stuck in this cycle where they always eventually end up binging on PMO, yet they're obsessed with no MO.

    I don't know it just doesn't really make any sense to me.

    Why are guys like this so focused on no MO when they always eventually end up masturbating to porn and artificial sexual stimulation? When they always eventually end up in a PMO binge?
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    pajerito123 likes this.
  19. pajerito123

    pajerito123 Fapstronaut

    Its a nice point of view, skaterdrew. Most people try to get rid of M and they always end up masturbating with porn. Maybe, they should focus just on quitting porn for starter and then deciding if they want to stop masturbation. Baby steps.

    Maybe, it is they tendency of trying to solve their problem as fast as posible, so, in that logic, if they go hard mode, they will heal sooner. The faster you try to go, the less probably you will succed in the long run because you are trying to create an habit. It will take time.
  20. pump20

    pump20 Fapstronaut

    Well, feeling horny is really important because it makes us stronger and our bodies will get used to it sooner or later. Our minds still be flooded with lustful thoughts because of the stuff we have in our past. We can be aroused mentally and have orgasms that way. That's called fantasies. We also have to watch out for succubus entering our dreams at night because they're energy drainers and causes us to lose semen and have wet dreams. So we need to hold the juice.

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