My Testosterone is too low!

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by BetaToAlpha, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Would NoFap boost my T levels or is that an Internet myth? Do you think PMO contributes to lower T? I do feel manlier on NoFap, but that might not be due to T. My doctor told me my T levels are in range, but they forgot to tell me they're fine... for a 50 y/o guy. And I'm in my 20s:

  2. JesusGreen

    JesusGreen Fapstronaut

    There is no evidence that NoFap increases testosterone, other than a study that saw a temporary spike on the 7th day of abstinence. The spike only lasted a few hours, and by day 8, their T levels were the same as before.

    That said, orgasm leads to a temporary down-regulation of brain androgen receptors. These are the receptors where testosterone binds in the brain and where testosterone creates all its psychological effects, like mood, energy, confidence, etc. So down-regulating these receptors == even if you have high T levels, that T will become less effective over time. With NoFap, due to the abstinence, you're helping those receptors recover, so you should get more mood-related effects from the T you do have, even if your T doesn't go up.

    It would help if you actually told us what your total T, free T, etc were.

    Then as far as dealing with it, the main things are: Diet, exercise, and body fat %.

    Body fat %:
    If you have a lot of fat on your body, then a lot of your testosterone will aromatise to estrogen, causing you to have lower T, and higher estrogen. The lower your body fat %, the higher your T will be, and the lower your E and E2 (estradiol). Up to a point anyway, once you get below like 9% body fat your hormones will start to drop again because you're dieting down so much. 9% body fat is pretty low though if you're not a bodybuilder that has to get super lean for competitions etc.

    People who exercise regularly, particularly resistance training (i.e. weight training or bodyweight training - rather than cardio) have significantly higher testosterone levels. Weight training raises your testosterone both temporarily while you're in the gym, and longer term as you make it a habit. Ever noticed how there are a few older guys in like their 50s and 60s who just seem way strong and healthy for their age? Well, that's because those two things go together. If they've worked out and maintained their strength all the way up to that age, then their hormone levels will have decreased much less than other people who've reached that age.

    Diet is INCREDIBLY important for your hormone levels. I've seen so many cases of people who had extremely low T, some of whom even were even advised to go on TRT (T replacement therapy) who simply fixed their diets, and 2-3 years later had T in the 900-1000ng+/dL range. If you're currently dieting down and losing weight, you will have lower testosterone than if you're currently eating at a surplus and putting on weight. It's still worth doing though if you have excess fat to lose, since the lower testosterone that comes with dieting is very mild (unless you're doing some extreme diet - which is bad and can really screw with your hormones) and is also only temporary (it'll return to normal as soon as you've lost the weight you need to lose and are no longer dieting).

    You need a minimum amount of fat in your diet for your body to produce testosterone. Cholesterol etc is used to produce testosterone and other hormones, so things like eggs, olive oil etc give your body the ingredients it needs. You should be eating around 0.4g of fat per lb of body weight. So if you're 180lbs, you should be getting around 72g of fat each day. If you're not getting that much, your T levels will drop.

    Don't overdo the protein. While if you're strength training you'll want around ~1g/lb of lean body weight in protein, a little more if you're dieting down (up to ~1.3g/lb of total body weight, assuming you're relatively lean) - any more than that isn't going to help with strength/gains, but also, may even decrease your testosterone, as several studies found that very high protein diets == lower T.

    The rest should be carbs. While some might enjoy ketogenic diets, if optimising hormones is your goal, then keto isn't the way to go, since some studies have found it to actually lower T levels. Higher carb diets on the other hand did the opposite, and increased T levels. So my rule of thumb is: Get the minimum fat + protein you need for your goals (i.e. 0.4g/lb and 1g/lb respectively if you workout) and then fill the rest of your daily calories with carbs.

    As an extension of diet, vitamins.

    Most people have a very unbalanced diet, and are lacking in vitamins and minerals of various kinds. If you have a deficiency in any of the following: B6, B12, D3, Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc.. then you likely will have lower T - and the effect could be pretty significant depending on how many of those you're deficient in and how bad the deficiencies are. All of these are required for optimal T production. So, if you don't want to get really analytical with your diet: Buy supplements for all of the above. Make sure you research what you're buying too. With Magnesium in particular most of the supplements out there are the relatively inactive Magnesium Oxide. Magnesium Oxide is only 4% bioavailable, so if you take a 100mg pill, you only get 4mg of it. So it's worthless. So for example for Magnesium get Lactate, Glycinate or Citrate.


    Once you have those three optimised your T will probably be significantly higher than it is now, it might even go all the way from "low" to "high".
  3. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Carbs? They make me feel terrible. I have adrenal fatigue and I need them but I react badly to any refined carbs, rice, potatoes, etc. Can only tolerate veggies. Cannot eat lots of fat because burning feeling above belly button (I suspect pancreatitis). I also hate meat and vegetables. I only like carbs but avoid them because of the blood sugar issues and hyperinsulinism. I also have Hashimoto. As I hate most foods in the Paleo diet I basically eat ready made salads with eggs and cheeses which are sorta paleo but I cannot eat more than 3 a day (each is about 500 cal). I don't know how guys who work eat to gain, I struggle to eat anything above 1000 cals when I avoid junk carby food. I put weight easily on junk carbs but mostly fat on my ass and legs like a female :( Really mad at God for giving me such a hard deal of life while everyone around me have minor or no problems. For this reason alone I no longer feel like getting baptized or having a religious marriage.

    But if it only affects the brain why did I grew some chest hair and my shoulders feel broader? Also mysterious is that my body language on NoFap is masculine, on wanking more effeminate and women assume I must be gay (who said women are not judge mental?). I also become overly sensitive, prone to crying, eager to please and let others walk over me, crying to movies and songs I wouldn't normally cry to, sit with my legs closed etc.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2017
  4. PostiveChange1974

    PostiveChange1974 Fapstronaut

    I have low-to-moderate T and everything that @JesusGreen has said is true.

    To re-iterate, Faping has no tangible effect on testosterone. He has said it well, so I don't have to recount.

    I will over this as a personal experience for T-therapy. I am still considered 'in-range' but at close to the bottom of the range at (253ng) when I first tested. I had multiple contributing factors. I was 42, at 240 pounds at 5'11'', who had long term depression (and only been treated for 4 months prior to my diagnosis). I been doing fitness for 16 months prior, lost 40 pound. I also had mild-ED (in perhaps the last 4 years), and delayed ejaculation all my life.

    When I tested, they did offer me treatment, but I was advised about the long term risks that come with T-Therapy. There are greater chances of heart issues. If you develop cancer, T-therapy can create more fertile place, where cancer is more aggressive. If not done properly, it can create sensitive nipples (breast enlargement, calves swelling, acne, and in worse case, sever emotional changes. To off set these risks, my treatment is done weekly under the oversight of a nurse, with a questionnaire by a doctor to assess my progress. I have to weigh in, and have my blood pressure checked each time. Every 6 weeks I have blood drawn for multiple lab works. With this, I receive two shots (one with HCG - small needle in the arm, and one with test replace serum larger needed in my glutes where the alternate sides each week). I also receive a 1mg pill to control my stop the testosterone from being converted into estrogen. I also have to take a vitamin D3 (5000units) a day.

    For me, the low test wasn't holding back my fitness. I was putting on muscle and progressing fine without it. I was however constantly tired (which is also a symptom of my depression), and slept constantly. My libido had flatlined, in that I felt no desire, and one session with my GF felt like it was going to be a challenge to be ready again in less then 2-3weeks. Now, once I got the testosterone, it wasn't like a switch was flipped. It's more like a subtle change. I have more energy, and don't feel the need to sleep all day. My libido returned, and I find that I desire sex 1 or 2 a week. I don't believe it has changed any progress in the gym (I didn't get super ripped or anything more than I was already showing progress month over month). My weight didn't get any easier to manage. I still had mild-ED (but I felt a little more confident about this). It has done nothing for my delayed-ejaculation. (For this, I pay $70 a week without insurance, and $10 a week when deductible is met, and $120 for blood tests/ $20 for when deductible is met)

    For me the risks are less important at my age, than the quality I feel I'm able to go achieve. I also feel that the constant oversight gives me great comfort, as I always have a doc to ask if something is 'normal', and someone watching my back. That being said, I don't know that I would have chose this therapy in my younger days. Perhaps if I had hit outside the scale, I would have, but I don't think this condition held me back, but just created resistance through which was one more contributing factor to my life.

    By the way, the testosterone treatment didn't create any super powers with women. I did notice I felt a little more confident. However, I also have ADHD. Once my energy levels started to return to normal, I found it was easier to go out and be with people, but there are occasions I feel 'in-overdrive' (hyper), where I'm not relaxed and feel almost compelled to foolishly act out and be a motor mouth. I'm receiving therapy for that as well.

    With all of this, I now have a rather expensive, and possibly complex overlap of prescription meds. All of which may confuse the impacts of each other. I take anti-depressants (which can cause side effects in sexual function), I take anti-histamines for asthma/allergies (which can cause side effects in sexual function), I take test-replacement (which can cause side effects in emotional balance), and I take ADHD meds to help me focus, and be calmer (which can affect overall mood, and affect sexual function). I do feel like I'm striking a balance to a better and optimal life, but I would be stupid if I didn't have the docs watching my back.

    So again to recap, testosterone won't make you superman, and fapping has almost no effect on it. The choice is yours if you think the quality I mention is important, but realize it will be subtle, and come a financial costs, and medical risks, and can only be safely done when docs are constantly watching your back.

    (PS: just so you know, almost all 'supplements' out there that market as 'test boosters', are pure weapons grade bullshit. They do nothing, don't waste time or money on them)

    In case you are curious, NoFap is helping with the mild-Ed. Just by giving my manhood a break, I'm getting random errections, and the firmness seems to be improving all on its own. With some meditation, and other mental practices, I have hopes that I will be able to overcome my delayed ejaculation so that I can relax enough, so that my GF can 'take me', and me not having to drive to be able to complete. In short, all that time, money, fitness progress, and prescription meds, and I think my greatest shot at having a more fulfilling sexual experience, is simply resting my manhood awhile, and learning to fully relax and mentally engage in the bedroom. (I don't think those other things are BS tho, they give me greater quality of life all around)

    I hope this offers some perspective as you make a choice.

    Feel free to ask questions on anything that I didn't cover, or is still confusing.
  5. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I have primary hypogonadism i.e. my balls do not produce enough testosterone. I have been on TRT for years. Initially, my testosterone was 150ng. :eek: The first couple of years, I was prescribed a topical gel (Testogel). But I found it increasingly unpleasant to use. I had to apply two sachets daily and the gel has a pungent smell of alcohol. I am not into alcohol and overtime I found it harder and harder to keep up with the treatment. I have been under the supervision of a consultant endocrinologist and he suggested an injection called Nebido. That has been much better for me. One injection (alternating cheeks in the ass from a nurse), every 10 weeks. :oops: That keeps me in an acceptable range for my age and myriad health problems. Anyway, in March, the consultant will advise me what my current levels are and if any change is required. I am not expecting any alteration as I have been on the same regimen for a few years.
  6. Yes nofap will help since fapping screws with tour androgen receptors. Also most people who do nofap experience effects of high testosterone so it would only make sense to day that it does. Since being on nofap my puberty has sped up a lot plus I have developed masculine features such as more body hair, really thick eyebrows, an angular face, deeper voice and just generally looking more manly combined with literally having the confidence of a douchebag.

    To have high testosterone you should:
    -Sleep enough
    -Eat a nutritious diet that fixes micronutrient deficiencies. I recommend supplementation of zinc, magnesium and vitamin D.
    -Reduce intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and trans fats. PUFAs are found in high amounts in vegetable oil such as soybean, cottonseed and sunflower. Cook with oils high in saturated fats or monounsaturated such as butter, ghee, coconut oil, red palm, olive, avocado oil, macadamia oil.
    -Eat more cholesterol. No dietary cholesterol is not bad for you. I eat 4+ eggs a day.
    -Take cold showers.
    -Exercise (loose fat, build muscle)
    -Avoid taking in high levels of estrogen. Switch to natural washing products and don't eat soy, peppermint, liquorice and flaxseeds (aka linseeds).
    -Avoid junk food full stop.
    -Get fluoride free toothpaste. Don't worry your teeth won't get worse, mine have only got better.
    BetaToAlpha likes this.
  7. Try my advice and if not your best bet is to inject testosterone.
  8. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Won't cold showers cause shock/stress for my fucked up adrenals and thyroid? I shiver when I try to and I have cold feet and hands all the time, so it feels terrible.

    Even peppermint is estrogenic? What about Lemon balm, Valerian root and Chamomile? I drink them for anxiety. I drink Nettle tea to stop the dreaded T to E conversion.
  9. Hiraeth

    Hiraeth Fapstronaut

    Not only are you very knowledegeable you are also very right! I can confirm all these statements.
  10. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Btw I thought I'll never say this but I enjoy the current flatline. Constantly getting erections made me relapse. Now my little guy is asleep so I don't feel like teasing him. I think there is some agenda to turn males feminine with urging us to get in tune with our feminine sides. And the constant male-bashing in mainstream media. Sexism against males is all the rage these days. I also went to a Dutch university so it was more like a feminist indoctrination camp. But in real life all those angry feminists want a manly, T-dominant male. So they claim/write one thing but feel/seek the opposite.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  11. IGY

    IGY Guest

    That is what I do.
  12. Milk and heavy squats will make your nuts swell.
  13. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Isn't milk estrogenic?
  14. Possibly. Not sure in all honesty. It's very insulinogenic... I know that, especially that terrible skimmed stuff!

    Milk and squats (3 days a week) is an old method I used years back but I'm telling you man I felt like a complete beast when doing it. Was sleeping well and my libido was solid. It's just an idea. If you don't like the whole milk idea then maybe substitute for eggs. But either way lifting heavy shit (not just arms!) is magic for boosting test natural and feeling like a savage!
    BetaToAlpha likes this.
  15. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    True, but still I will need some testosterone replacement therapy if every time when I climax I feel asexual for weeks. 400 is good for a 50 year old guy, not for a man in his late 20s. Unfortunately many doctors think that it's fine as long as it is within range which is not true. I put on fat instead of muscle from food and on my thights and ass, then my belly. I think my shitty adrenals are to blame, most probably I'm low DHEA (in addition to low cortisol diagnosis) which doesn't signal the testes to produce more T, so they're kinda lazy. Sure, those suggestions help, but only on NoFap. When I climax/relapse they don't really make any change and I still go into asexual/feminine mode. This makes me cry for days as I feel like I have nothing to offer to any girl and my voice is stuck between a teenagers and male voice, not very deep and having sinusitis problems, I come off as not into women if you know what I mean, so they find it a turn off.

    I train hard but still haven't noticed any benefits on my skinny upper body. When I add the depression and oversensitivity, it seems like time to check my levels again and this time I will be agressive for getting TRT. I have more cardio risks now by having low T than if I get T injections. I want to feel like a guy even after orgasm and not lose my confidence every time I do sex. If I let things like they are, no female would even get close to me. I don't want to switch and baith her with my confidence on NoFap for her to discover I turn asexual/depressed after every orgasm. I want to fix things now and finish my puberty (I'm really stuck in limbo and my puberty seems to have not been complete like bare chest, higher voice, being overly sensitive, dramatic, and depressed, etc.). :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2017
    Harderthansatan likes this.
  16. Confession I didn't read any of the trt stuff. Sorry. You are right. Doing 5 sets of 5 heavy squats for example will likely not allow you to grow if you have chronically low t. I recommend doing them anyway for your mentality but reality is that with low test it's very much uphill.

    Good luck and get the trt sorted.
    How often do you have sex a week? Including masterbation.
    BetaToAlpha likes this.
  17. Or to rephrase. When you have been dating etc? How often do you have sex or masterbation a week?

    I'm 36 but I only have sex maybe twice a week. Anything else and I'd feel knackered too.
    BetaToAlpha likes this.
  18. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    When on NoFap - none lol
    When I fap - now about 1-2 times a week at most. Before that I did it daily and sometimes several times a day. And even this makes me feel depressed/moody for a week or two after that. That's why I got into NoFap in the first place. Thing is most doctors only look at the range, not taking my age in mind, but this time I will be very blunt. I'm fed up with this in limbo existance and I want to finally become an adult male.
  19. Physicist

    Physicist Fapstronaut

    Everything has been covered here it seems.

    Maybe try orgasmless sex. If you can endure it.
    BetaToAlpha likes this.
  20. BetaToAlpha

    BetaToAlpha Guest

    Not everything is covered, yet. For example, I am not sure if plastic bottles and food packages are really that feminizing? I don't think it's really possible to avoid them, especially if you cannot and hate cooking like me. I drink lots of stinging nettle tea and avoid soy. I train hard and lift heavy stuff (despite getting exhausted easily due to poor adrenal health). Cold showers are a no no due to adrenals so I do contrast showers where I start hot and go to warm and the coldest I can take.

    I think a DHEA supplement would be enough for me to boost my T production naturally (I have adrenal fatigue), but I will check it first and then buy it if I need it. Anyway, thanks for all advices! :)

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