On lying

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by SOSo, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. SOSo

    SOSo Fapstronaut

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    Is it common for PA's to use semantics in order to not disclose? What has been your experience? Has your PA (or as a PA have you) used words from you to get out of telling the full truth?

    Example: "Well, you used the word struggle, I wasn't struggling, so therefore even though it happened I will say no because of the one word".

    In other thoughts, what ways do PA's use circular logic and other outside influence to not disclose?
     
  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Yeah... That's right after the Idk phase.
    Word juggling.
    They all become baby lawyers.
    Thinking of synonyms like a damned thesaurus. I was... Uh
    .. This other similar word that's not Quite your word. But it's what I meant

    Bullshit
     
  3. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Although.... When my guy was lying he was relapsed.
    It meant he relapsed

    And had panicked.
    Probably not what you were talking about huh
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  4. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    No, mine just flat out lied to my face. No semantics. Even when I caught him and had the proof right there in front of him, just blatant denial. It was infuriating.
     
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  5. Definitely! @slb used both: the outright lying AND semantics/very generous approach to word/phrase interpretation. It drove/drives me craaazy!
    His most common "synonyms" for VERY OFTEN or SEVERAL TIMES PER WEEK were: "on occasion", "rarely", "sometimes", "once or twice per year", "a few times", "almost never", "I used to, but not anymore".
    The descriptions of what he watched were (and, for the most part, still are): "the usual stuff", "normal porn", "men with women type", "nothing illegal"... So basically, ALMOST EVERYTHING, if you ask me, shy of beastiality and incest (but I'm not sure, because d-day was way too vague). And, to be perfectly honest, if one has escalated to shemales, I would not call that "normal man/woman porn".
     
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  6. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman
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    One certainly can. A recovering addict has to be at the point where they are establishing accountability before the semantics stop. Sometimes it is about hiding from others. In other cases, I remember times where it wasn't about hiding, but that I was still lying to myself about what was and wasn't. (I don't remember the specifics anymore, but I didn't acknowledge that some act was a violation of my bottom line behaviors. I went to spiritual direction where I had a confession at the end. During the direction, I remembered considering that maybe it was, but was still justifying that it wasn't a problem. As such, I did not discuss it during the confession. Not 5 minutes after the confession, I realized it was a violation, and as such it should have been confessed. I went back to confession that same day. I wasn't intentionally lying to the priest, I was in denial that it was what it was. I am much clearer now. Anytime I'm not sure, I notify my AP of the situation, and usually before I've even finished the message, I know whether or not it's a violation.)
     
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  7. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    98 days in and I am definitely still in the process of parting the fog I lived in for so long. And really, it's been longer than that since the quitting process has been moving forward for over a decade now, stagnant at times but still inching forward for all that time as I looked less and at tamer stuff.

    I don't know about other people, but it's in my nature to not want to recognize how flawed I am. I can honestly say that for most of my marriage I didn't consider looking at porn that big a deal. I had a whole list of reasons that, in the heat of the moment, justified it. Those justifications may have faded after the act, but they would come back real quick whenever I needed them.

    My wife and I have never really talked about porn, there are many sensitive topics we have never really talked about or avoid. Communication is ever so complicated. I lied to her twice about it - first time - I made a promise I didn't keep about 8 years ago. When I got caught I told her I wouldn't make that promise again since I couldn't guarantee I would keep it - but that I would do my best. Second time was about 2 years ago - she asked me if I was still looking and I said no. I hadn't looked in a month or so at that time so I (kind of) honestly thought I was through.

    If she had been more confrontational about it at any point in our marriage, especially early on - I surely would have spouted some combination of direct lies and twisted truths. I can say that for sure since I was lying to myself - and my view of my pornography habit was totally distorted and unreal. How can someone tell the complete truth when they can't even see it?

    Not making excuses for lies by the way ... just calling it how I see it.
     
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  8. SOSo

    SOSo Fapstronaut

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    It's so frustrating for me to have to ask specific questions instead of getting the outright truth. How the f am I supposed to know what word combinations and tenses to get an answer? Ridiculous.
     
  9. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman
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    You could start by asking your PA to give their definition. Then contrast it with your definition and come to agreement. Stress the importance of the need to be honest in terms of that definition, lest your PA will lose further trust.

    Again, the PA has to agree that they’re doig harmful things, whether that harm is to themselves or someone else. Before that happens, they’re just in conflict avoidance mode. They are responsible for that, even though they will think that you are the “problem,” “nagging” them to stop doing something that is okay. At that point they are just trying to placate you.

    At your option, and it can still take a toll on you, work on fostering an environment where when he’s honest that he looked at porn, you hold him accountable without blowing up. I imagine that may not always be easy, but it will encourage him to continue to be truthful. (This will be a waste of your time and won’t work if he’s still in the denial stage.)
     
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  10. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    We just talked about lying in CC.
    I learned that in the past he would think if one word was out of place, he could change his answer
    Example -
    You aren't looking up a** at work like (coworkers name) are you? I know he's a bad influence

    His answer - no, I'm absolutely Not doing that.
    *Lie.

    He was looking up b**bs that day.

    Next day when I asked him about both t*** & a** at work he answered no again and said he promised.... Why?
    Because he had Med in the car on his way to work, Not at work.

    This was two years ago.
    Now after years of therapy he doesn't pick apart the sentences.
    He KNOWS a lie is a lie is a lie.
     
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  11. SOSo

    SOSo Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, similar. Example: "Have you been oogling at the girls at work?" It's a no because he didn't look at the girls at work because he doesn't in the office (or so he said), but he would look at them on the way into work, which came out later. It's never clear.

    I'm trying to be very calm and patient but I never feel like I am getting the truth. I'm hoping this gets better with time.
     
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  12. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    2month mark, lying stopped
    9 months is when we had total transparency
    1 year 1mon we had open flowing communication


    If that helps
     
  13. SOSo

    SOSo Fapstronaut

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    This gives me a lot of hope. I sometimes think I expect miracles when it takes time and hard work. Thank you.
     
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  14. LizzyBlanca

    LizzyBlanca Fapstronaut

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    My hub is over 1.5 years clean and continues to lie. He lies about things that don't matter, such as when I'm asking a question about a program on TV, or if he finished the hummus. (So I didn't keep looking for it in the fridge - no big deal.)

    I can tell when he is lying b/c he quickly blurts out an answer which can't really be true (absolutes).

    My hub continues to blame me for his behavior. I know it's a crock of sh!t. Whatever he has done or does is on HIM.

    I'm having a really difficult time right now medically and he kicks me (emotionally/psychologically) when I am down.

    Back to the original post - yes - I have experienced a great deal of "circular logic" and it's not just about his acting out. This is a classic aspect of the problem. Lying. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. It's heart-breaking, really, as I feel that I am somehow not worthy of the truth. That's just my low self-esteem talking, though. I do know I'm worthy; I'm just not getting it b/c my husband has serious issues. It's draining, to be honest.
     
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  15. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am a lawyer and I literally had to engage in a specific and direct cross examination of my ex PMO addiction. Here's the thing if you think you should tell your partner but chose to hide it that's a lie. An addict trying to regain trust should just tell everything that way it's covered. It also shows total openness.
     
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  16. LizzyBlanca

    LizzyBlanca Fapstronaut

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  17. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    Ninety percent of what I know is because of discovery. Even after I knew the truth, I didn't let on for months. I wanted him to come to me, not for me to have to blow it wide open. I tried and tried to create safe opportunities for him to come to me and tell me, without even a hint of him knowing I knew anything. But they were just openings for him, I just tried to open the door a little. Anything - so he would come to me instead of me having to go to him. Yet it continued. Lie after lie after lie.
     
  18. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I should add the lying has stopped since he finally decided he wanted to stop and is rebooting.
     
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  19. Nothing I know is from @slb directly/voluntarily. Everything I either discovered myself or had to ask endless questions over the past 6 months. Last d-day was just some week ago, so I'm still not sure I know everything. And even the questions I ask are answered in such fashion, that it's more frustrating than revealing.
     
  20. LizzyBlanca

    LizzyBlanca Fapstronaut

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    Lying is truly heart-breaking in sex addiction for the spouse/partner, b/c of the relationship. I don't want to minimize that. BUT. Addicts lie. ALL type of addicts. I'm trying to separate myself from my husband's lies b/c they are not about me, they are about him and his addiction.

    https://blogs.psychcentral.com/addiction-recovery/2014/03/7-honest-reasons-why-addicts-lie/

    http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/Addiction_Lies_Rel.html

    http://www.narconon.org/blog/drug-addiction/5-common-behavior-traits-addict/
     
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